The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 01:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Miss Globe Organisation[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Not notable. Poorly sourced. One source (at present No 5) was rejected in another article for not being an RS. E4024 (talk) 20:23, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The organization has been in existence since 1925. It is in fact a very extensive organization and includes participants from around the world (i.e. Italy, Pakistan, France, India, and etc.) It is known as "prestigious" in some online sources (see: http://www.ukbeauties.co.uk/PAGEANTS/InternationalPageants/MissGlobeInternational/tabid/165/Default.aspx) and according to some sources, it is "ranked ranked among the top international beauty pageants of the world" and has been televised on more than 20 foreign channels (http://www.beautytipshub.com/fashion/beauty-pageants-for-women/miss-globe-international.html). I have found hundreds of photographs from the pageant and of the contestants (excluding the official website of course). Participants have even included such famed individuals as Marylyn Monroe who won the competition in 1947. There are even online live streams to watch the event. Might I add that the Miss Globe competition has branches or sub-organizations such as Miss Globe Denmark, Miss Globe France, Miss Globe India, and more. However, I do agree that the article may use some improvements, just like every other article on Wikipedia. I will add more sources and details soon. Proudbolsahye (talk) 21:14, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Before losing too much of your time on the stub better touch the buttons up there: "News". "books", "scholar" etc. --E4024 (talk) 21:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Under the search of "Miss Globe Organisation" you might not have much search results. However, just typing Miss Globe provides you dozens upon dozens. Proudbolsahye (talk) 21:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- So? Does that mean now the article will have sources better than the self webpage and the Albanian Tourist Guide? Good news... --E4024 (talk) 17:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 17:54, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 17:54, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ - Nothing has changed with the article in the couple of days. (Indeed I have been the only editor who tried to arrange it lately.) The only user who see it necessary for WP is busy preparing other articles some of which will end up inevitably here. I am sure of their goodwill but maybe they should collaborate more with a varied gamma of users to choose better topics to work on and improve Wikipedia with more valuable input. --E4024 (talk) 21:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, AutomaticStrikeout (T • C) 01:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning keep: The nominator of all people should know that voting again on an article they nominated is considered duplicate voting, which does not help their case. I have stricken their second vote. Regarding the article subject, it appears notable enough for an article based on Google News hits (voting solely based on the lack of hits for one specific phrase is disingenuous, and given your previous activity, means that, no matter how authoritatively you word your comments, your motives must be questioned where a certain other user (regardless of their Wikipedian shortcomings) is involved.) When I search for "Miss Globe" (plus other keywords such as international, beauty, etc...) I see lots of news hits in multiple languages. Book hits are not great (too many Wikipedia rehashes), but the breadth of the news coverage is enough to make me leaning keep. Mabalu (talk) 12:21, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mabalu, I don't have a "case". Some people may have one though. If I were in your place (I know I am not) instead of focusing my attention on who proposes what to delete (that is something fair; if there is consensus articles get deleted; "proposing" is not that prominent an act) I would lean more on the sources. You know WP articles depend on reliable sources; reliable sources which are used in good faith... --E4024 (talk) 17:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will take this to your talk page. Mabalu (talk) 17:52, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mabalu, for your good faith leaning to keep this article I have made some efforts to save the text. Using the same source introduced by the only editor who defends keeping I developed the article. Now we know that the organization was possibly established in 1972 ("35 years before 2007", per source) and registered in 1973; however, another source (IMO a very unreliable one) claims it was established in 1925. Well, if you wish to keep this article, you should also help with the editing. (Forget about the Turkish sources, because what they only show is that maybe there was a beauty competition in Istanbul in 1925 and won by a candidate (no info about other candidates, runner-bys etc) in 1925?). --E4024 (talk) 01:02, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since you've asked, I will take a look and see what I can do, although I honestly have no interest in beauty pageants and contests. Mabalu (talk) 17:49, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that. I confess to have an interest in the candidates. (I always make guesses about the results and mostly imagine the winners. :-) I also have an interest in keeping WP "clean". Permanent misuse of sources that I cannot explain as "honest mistakes" is a serious thing. Therefore you may help in preventing and eliminating that dishonest practice; even if you are not interested in beauty pageants. --E4024 (talk) 17:58, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I did find one thing that definitely made me go "Hmmmmm". This is a self published site and totally fails WP:RS but what they say here about having "found absolutely no documentation (news articles, photographs, lists of contestants and results) of Miss Globe pageants prior to 1988" is VERY eyebrow raising. If even contributors to a dedicated fansite like Pageantopolis can't find documentation before 1988, that's enough to give me pause. Another thing that makes me go Hmmm... Marilyn Monroe apparently won this in 1947. Now, we're talking megastar here, yet there appears to be nothing whatsoever in any Monroe biographies, news, fansites, etc, to support this major claim. I will do some more hunting around, but I think it's beginning to smell of elaborate, grand-scale hoax as far as the history of the pageant goes. Mabalu (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment - I'm not doubting that there HAVE been contests titled "Miss Globe" in the past - but I just had a search at newspaperarchive.com for hits between 1923 and 1960 - and found absolutely nothing relevant! That's again very telling, when the best source you can find is a tiny hit describing a state fair contest in Arizona called "Miss Globe", in an article in the Tucson Daily Citizen, October 6, 1953, page 6. That's the MOST relevant hit that the site came up with, and the actual article, which is just a name-check for some random Mary Sue who won her school's beauty contest, is so miniscule it fits perfectly in the magnifying glass viewer they give you to read with... So the question is, the history of the pageant pre-1988 is obviously too dubious and questionable and lacks credible verifiability or in-depth coverage to support what's claimed on the official website. The question now is - IS Miss Globe, the pageant that can be shown to have existed since 1988, notable enough for an article? I will have to come back to this and think about it. Mabalu (talk) 18:30, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, if I do any more work/research on this article I swear I shall vomit. Despite that, I THINK there is an argument for making the article into a stub which simply covers the fact that the pageant exists and is held annually. If it is indeed broadcast worldwide (or at least across several countries), that seems to support its case for notability. But let's be blunt here, the official site has more bullshit in it than the Augean stables and absolutely ZERO credibility. Mabalu (talk) 00:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry for you (and thank you for your efforts) but I am also happy I began this deletion discussion. Maybe finally we will have a short but acceptable article on this organisation. --E4024 (talk) 01:04, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.