The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Including results from Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alikhezrayi, consensus at this AFD is to delete. -- Cirt (talk) 19:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mani Nouri[edit]

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Fails WP:ENT. I couldn't find any reliable source for this article, even in Persian. Farhikht (talk) 16:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 19:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- -- Cirt (talk) 22:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per nom, non notable enough. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 07:29, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep* he is a well known actor in Iran. Iranian people know him and movies that he has played in, they have pages in wikipedia. He is from zizigooloo show and by searching his name on google, you can find him on iranact.com and sourehcinema.com/ one page in farsi (zizigooloo): http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%82%D8%B5%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D8%AA%D8%A7 second page in farsi (khaneye ma, aks our house): http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AE%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%87_%D9%85%D8%A7 a lot of young iranians have memories from him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alikhezrayi (talk • contribs) 03:17, 7 December 2010 (UTC) — Alikhezrayi (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
KEEP: لطفآ صفحه این بازیگر خوبه کشورمون رو نگاه دارید. ایشون مصاحبه زیاد کردن در ایران و همیشه جزو جوانهایی بودن که برای ایران و ایرانی افتخار آفرین بودن. سریاله تهران ۱۱ و جزیره جادو ایشون بسیار جذاب و زیبا بودن. زیزیگولو رو هم که هنوز ما نگاه میکنیم. با امید پیروزی برای شما و دوستانتون. ارادتمند رضا —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.56.23.15 (talk) 05:29, December 7, 2010 (UTC)— 74.56.23.15 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Comment: Whatever language that is, I don't understand it. Please provide a rationale in English. JIP | Talk 07:21, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~: with all due respect, but what do you need as a reference? i was in Iran when he won a prize in Isfahan's international film festival (for youth), he won the prize of best actor for his performance in Morabaye shirin (sweet jam), you can go and watch this movie online. He did very good in Khaneye ma (our house) too, he won the best young actor for that role in festival of channel 3 in Iran. You can even watch some parts of Zizigooloo and Khaneye ma on youtube. i give him all my support by writing this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.56.23.15 (talk) 05:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC) — 74.56.23.15 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Striking second "keep" from this anon IP. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:33, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: plz provide reliable sources for your comments and add it to the artice, sources should pass WP:RS, Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 07:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep* This actor is listed in the international movie data base (IMDB), which is indeed a very reliable source of information. However, the propose of this deletion request is unclear to me. This article does not violate any of the wikipedia publication policies. There has been enough references cited in order to prove the correctness of its content. Whether an actor is "notable enough" as Spada2 remarks, is a purely subjective question and depends on the point of view of the reviewers. I am sure that Spada2 does not recognize most the great french and other international actors as well. Is his personal opinion, which is based on his experiences and knowledge, the standard for articles in an international encyclopedia?? Artists and actors, independent of whether we favorite their works or not, are part of the cultural heritage of the humanity and therefore, in my opinion their "notability" is not a criterion to keep or delete them on wiki. I would also like to remark that notability does not increase the artistic value of a work. User:DrPhosphorus (talk) 08:49, 7 December 2010 (UTC)— DrPhosphorus (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
While IMDB is usually accurate in its listing of film projects, it is because because they do not share their vetting processes they are not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia. And simply being listed on IMDB or in any online database, is not usable as an assertion of notability, though such listings could encourage searches for other, better sources. And to be clear, as the lengthy list of projects for this actor is unverifiable it does fail policy for biographies of living persons. In looking, the individual is not found in a g-news search,[1] ~~has one mention in a book,[2]~~ and is for the most part otherwise found in non-RS websites.[3] He obviously exists, yes... but to meet the notability criteria of Wikipedia, the information within the article needs to be citable to reliable sources. If you can offfer news articles of this person and his awards or reviews of his work, even if non-English, it would go far toward showing notability. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:24, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there are no book mentions. One is a hyphenated word that is a false positive, and one is from Books LLC, which reprints wikipedia content. Calliopejen1 (talk) 01:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Good catch. Struck that sentence. Not in books. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.}

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 00:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: As i said in the discussion, iranact.com, sourehcinema.com, us.imdb.com, these are reliable sources. His works are still popular in Iran, but i will try to find some more links. I don't know howlong has it been that you live outside of Iran (for people judging this article), but from whoever in Iran you ask, i promise you that they all know Zizigooloo, Khaneye ma, tehran 11, morabaye shirin. I don't know but perhaps you have watched his movies as well. If we want to judge whether he is notable or not, we should look into Iranian cinema sites, if he has profiles there, and his serials (links already posted) have pages here in Wikipedia and he is also on IMDb, howcome he is not notable enough to be on Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alikhezrayi (talk • contribs) 00:57, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Even if we were to consider iranact.com, sourehcinema.com, and imdb.com to be reliable (a faulty premise in any event), there is not sufficient coverage in these sources to show notability. And apart from these, there appears to be no reliable coverage of this actor. Fails WP:V and WP:N. Calliopejen1 (talk) 01:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ Come on guys, have you even looked at new links added to the article? These are his profiles on these notable Iranian cinema sites, in one of them, you can even see his pictures with Marzie Boroomand, the famous Iranian director ( maybe you are going to deny the credibility of one the biggest directors in Iran). Seriously are you only here to delete the article? Do you have a personal problem with it? Have you even searched? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alikhezrayi (talk • contribs) 02:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
@ User:Alikhezrayi: Many editors DO perform research before commenting. For instance, "IranAct.com" is registered to entities out of New York City,[4] and "SourEhCinema.com" is registered to the Soureh Cinema Organization in Tehran, Iran,[5] a producer and distributor of films,[6] and so are not exactly independent of the subject. I have found no news articles about this actor in ether English[7] or Persian.[8] In a general web search in English, I find only forums, databases, and sales listings.[9] In Persian, I find SourEhCinema and IranAct and then more forums and sales sites. Please... find us a magazine article, or news review, as I am unable to. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 06:56, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And a note: Alikhezrayi: Comments are very welcome here, but only one "keep" to a customer. I had to strikethrough this second one. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 06:10, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

comment By the way, the decision was made (by cirt), this article is a keep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alikhezrayi (talk • contribs) 02:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And no... it is not a keep... Cirt courteously "relisted",[10] which could allow you time to provide some news articles about this actor and his awards. If he is as popular in Iran as you say, do your best to find them. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 06:10, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

comment Apparently, MichealQSchmidt as well as others who request to provide books or newspaper article as proofs are not really familiar with the book resp. articles archiving and accessibility policies. Especially in countries like Iran, it is a non-trivial job to research on such subjects. If you don't find this actor by basic searchs in google, it could suggest: 1) Most of the iranian newspapers do not provide their archives accessible for google search; 2) Most of the iranian papers on cinema and art in his era of activity never become online or they do not exist anymore based on the iranian censorship; 3) It might also show your dogmatism and incompetency in order to do research. As far as I remember, a wiki member named "farhikht" started this deletion discussion here and claimed that he cannot find "ANY" information on this actor neither in english nor in persian. "Farhikht" made exactly the same comment on any other iranian actor that was listed for deletion. So my general comment is, being iranian or being able to type some words into google search do not make anyone competent enough for all kind of discussion. Thus, I would suggest from now on that the reviewers provide some information on themselves in order to achieve a high-quality discussion based on facts and competency. This means, if a reviewer is not even slightly familiar with the iranian cinema (not cinema in general as michael), so he is by definition incompetent to comment on "this" topic. I am an iranian scientist and researcher living currently in europe and have provided several contributions to the encyclopedia iranica (columbica university). I have seen different movies played by this actor and even some he directed, and I personally read at least one (lack of memory) journal article in "majale Cinema" from 1998 which was as interview with this actor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrPhosphorus (talk • contribs) 08:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

keep: Bonjour, j’aimerais ajouter une chose ici que je connais cet homme et il mérite d’être ici sur le site de Wikipedia. Il doit être la pour que les gens puissent le connaître mieux. J’ai déjà vu trois de ses films (réalisés par lui) et je dois avouer qu’il a fait beaucoup pour la société iranienne et aussi pour le cinéma iranien. Il va devenir de plus en plus grand et j’espère bien qu’il reste sur Wikipedia. Et c'est justement par des sources sur son Wikipedia que j'ai vu ses films faits en Iran. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.56.22.232 (talk) 15:49, 8 December 2010 (UTC) — 74.56.22.232 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- At the risk of looking pedantic, I thought I'd render this in English: "Hello, I'd like to add that I know this person and he deserves to have an article on Wikipedia. It must be there so that people can get to know him better. I've already seen three of his films (made by him) and I have to say that he has done a lot for Iranian society and for Iranian cinema. He is going to get bigger and bigger and I hope that he stays on Wikipedia. And it is precisely because of the references in his Wikipedia [article] that I got to see his Iranian movies." Drmies (talk) 15:48, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

keep: Sorry, but people who are discussing this article, are you even Iranian? Do you know how to read Persian? Because if you are, I sincerely can not believe that you do not recognise this artist by looking at references sites that are on his page. Anyhow his videos are on youtube too if you would like to give them a look. And I have to say that I truly believe that something is wrong here, yesterday the AFD was gone and closed and today we can see that it is back (user Schmidt says). I hope that people here would be fair to this person and this article with a just opinion. And this article has nothing against Wikipedia policy and his references are here to prove its notability. I respect those who have other opinions, but I believe that comparing to lots of articles about artists, this article does not lack any notability or credibility. (sources added)--EshghamVatanam (talk) 16:37, 8 December 2010 (UTC) struck Confirmed sock, per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alikhezrayi. -- Cirt (talk) 18:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reference loghatname dehkhoda, the most precious iranian encyclopedia on Zizigooloo and Mani Noori http://www.loghatnaameh.com/dehkhodaworddetail-a80f9b739ee5443d9d553025b1821bf4-fa.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrPhosphorus (talk • contribs) 16:43, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

very good reference, now this is dehkhoda, no one can deny it.

With respect, I have to say that the official website of the Dehkhoda Dictionary is an interactive site and users can add content to it. See the yellow box on the left corner of the page: "این واژه توسط اعضای سایت به لغت نامه اضافه شده است."which means "This word has been added to the dictionary by the members of the website".Farhikht (talk) 17:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

With respect for you, but users add articles to Wikipedia,users add information to internet site to make them larger, Even if you are going to deny that, you can't deny that two of his series have pages on Wikipedia. Whatever we post here, you say something about its credibility, while almost every article can be discussed this way, because it is by personal opinion i guess. by the way i went to dehkhoda site and i think it is a very good reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amahnaza (talk • contribs) 17:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

دوست عزیز غمگین کردی منو با حرفات، ما میدونیم که این سایت ها همگی درست و کامل کننده هستند. مانی نوری به اندازه کافی ارزشمند برای اینجا . .. هم وطن از تو انتظاره چیزه دیگری بود. رضا --EshghamVatanam (talk) 17:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)struck Confirmed sock, per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alikhezrayi. -- Cirt (talk) 18:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

keep: I say keep . Because we know amir agha jamali from zizigooloo, because we know pooya from khaneye ma, because we know jalal from morabaye shirin, because we remember our memories through our childhood, now if some people disagree, there is no problem. I respect that. I will add a link here (Marzie Boroomand on Wikipedia: http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B6%DB%8C%D9%87_%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AF), this is a famous director(no one can deny her) and he has played in a lot in her movies (list available if you know how to read Farsi). His TV shows are still playing in Iran and in Jamejam (for Iranians outside of Iran). Well the pages for zizigooloo and khaneye ma are also added to his article. And for people who are saying iranact.com/sourehcinema is gossip, they are wrong. Gossip sites or gossip pages in Iran, they are not like that, if they are, please show us an example ( i may have to remind you that a gossip site must be a site where they talk about personal lives or they lie). Let's not forget that even a gossip site will only write about someone who is famous enough. And I have a question: how are they gossip sites if they are only showing experiences, photos (on set) and giving profile information about artists? (I mean by looking at them, you can understand that they are not gossip). These sites are cinema sites in Iran. I like to ask people who decide here to get a person who speaks farsi and then judge the article (i think the user Schmidt asked for it from black kite and the answer was positive by saying he is famous). And asking for being in a book, well I have to agree with Drphosphorous and I have to add that we are not talking about kiarostami here (maybe he is mentioned in a book), being mentioned in a book is for masters and if by books, you mean interviews, then i think that you would see them as gossip also. And Schmidt, links have been added to the article and i am sure that your Iranian friend can't deny them, because they are based on official sites and not one single of them is a personal website. Let’s be fair and logical. Thanks. I only made a Wikipedia account to support him. And I will do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amahnaza (talk • contribs) 17:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC) struck Confirmed sock, per Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alikhezrayi. -- Cirt (talk) 18:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Farhikht Dear Farhikht, please answer the questions that I asked on your discussion page, before adding new comments. They are of substantial importance for your credibility. In respect of this discussion, you can start with introducing your research strategies and methods (you claimed, you couldn't find anything even in persian, while you could easily find dehkhoda). It would also be great to know, why in your opinion an actor like Mani Nouri (whose films played for years all over iran) is non-notable but some really unimportant politicans are notable like Bahram Soroush whose activites does not have any impacts and is only known in a very small community of the "20" members of his own party. Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing any political view. Please, do not be stolid. You suggested a deletion and you are confronted with an unexpected resonance. Its time to see the reality. Everyone makes a mistake. DrPhosphorus (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I am willing to believe in good faith that this actor is all that the "keeps" say he is, but lack of any coverage or verification of this actor's career in reliable sources even after the "keeps" were encouraged they be presented, lead me to feel a delete is in order. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 19:05, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. While I recognize the difficult faced with foreign bios, especially from non-English countries, we still need RS sourcing to reflect notability, unfortunately. Even looking at the article's pre-AfD views, there is not much to suggest interest by wikipedia readers in this article--Epeefleche (talk) 07:14, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.