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The result was redirect to Meteor Crater. Consensus is that it is a real place, but that it is not currently clear if it was ever inhabited. Should more sources surface in the future, the article can be restarted. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 08:06, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sunshine, Arizona[edit]

Sunshine, Arizona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Well, this one is a mess, and searching is rendered almost impossible by a game named "Arizona Sunshine" which shows up in results no matter what I do to exclude it. Anyway, the GNIS entry is almost certainly a mistake of some sort: in spite of it supposedly being scraped from a topo map, I see no sign of it at the coordinates given, which locate to a hillside with nothing near it at all. Interestingly, GMaps goes to a different point, which happens to be at the end of a passing siding on the ATSF main line, just north of the I-40 exit to go to Meteor Crater. There is of course no civilization around other than an RV camp on the opposite side of the interstate, which is named after the crater, not the siding. Mangoe (talk) 22:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment @Onel5969: the article starter should be notified. Lightburst (talk) 22:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The point GMaps gives is consistent with the 1968 topo map, not sure about the discrepancy the coordinates on GNIS. Absent from the 1982 map. I found results that there was oil drilling taking place there [1] and it was an RR station for a potential power plant [2] but nothing that it was a community. Reywas92^Talk 00:34, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Thank you for the research and newspaper access Reywas92. From the evidence presented the subject fails WP:GNG and the SNG WP:GEOLAND Lightburst (talk) 03:05, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Meteor Crater. Sunshine station was the location of Meteor post office, detailed here. The establishment of the post office in 1906 at Sunshine serving the crater involved a petition to Theodore Roosevelt, so is of some note. Prior to 1902 the station was called "Sunset" as stated in Arizona Place Names but I haven't had much luck finding anything under that name. Redirecting Sunshine, Arizona to Meteor Crater also makes sense because some local geological features have ended up with the name, such as Sunshine Nose.----Pontificalibus 08:31, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was WP:SNOW delete. BD2412 T 21:31, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Billy Cobb (singer)[edit]

Billy Cobb (singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Per WP:NBAND. Insignificant coverage in reliable secondary sources. No notable awards or recognition. Comatmebro (talk) 22:19, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST completely. No secondary, reliable coverage of the subject at all from what I can see. Sulfurboy (talk) 22:32, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as there is a lack of coverage such as no entry at all at All Music, also his youtube subscibers amount to 62,000 which is relatively low and the video views are low as well, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:21, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - The only reference is from his YouTube channel, and there isn't that much notability. Analog Horror, (Speak) 04:56, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete we cannot source him to his performances themselves which is what is being done here. We need secondary sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:44, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Per Nom and others. "...62,000 which is relatively low" and "there isn't that much notability" are very conservative comments. According to the Social Blade (that I recently ran across): Social Blade Rank= 262,590th, Subscriber Rank= 250,213th, and Video Views Rank= 390,197th. This seems like an advertising push to get "youtube coverage on Wikipedia" and "Wikipedia is not a blog, web hosting service, social networking service, or memorial site". Otr500 (talk) 12:09, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:TNT. This isn't an article, it's a hot mess. Even assuming we could fix this essay/resume, there aren't enough significant coverage in secondary sources to allow for musical notability. Bearian (talk) 14:10, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - I am merely piling it on here, but in addition to what everyone else has said, it is suspicious when a musician who claims to have dozens of releases gets almost no media coverage outside of his own social media self-promotions. All I found was this: [3], from a site that appears to host freelance music/movie reviewers. Mr. Cobb is a hobbyist who makes and releases his own music, and there is apparently a lot of it, but quantity does not translate into notability. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:39, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to City of Bell scandal. Sandstein 11:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar Hernandez (politician)[edit]

Oscar Hernandez (politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Subject is notable solely for his role in the City of Bell scandal‎. This one paragraph should be rolled into that article. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 22:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• If you're arguing for merger there's no need to go through AfD. You can do that unilaterally. Right now this AfD could be closed as speedy keep #1 because no one has argued for deletion or hard redirect. buidhe 23:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge per nom; Bell CA is a small town which cannot hand all of its mayors an automatic inclusion freebie just because they exist, and three of the six footnotes here are primary sources that are not support for notability, while the three that are real media are all covering him in the context of a single incident that just makes him a WP:BLP1E rather than a topic of enduring encyclopedic interest in his own right. That said, Buidhe is correct that you don't need AFD's permission to redirect it to the event article — you can just do it unilaterally, as long as your edit summary explains your actions. AFD can certainly be asked to weigh in later on if somebody opposes you on it afterward, but doesn't have to weigh in before you're allowed to act the first time. Bearcat (talk) 23:52, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to City of Bell scandal and merge as appropriate. Also support bold redirect. --Enos733 (talk) 19:29, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to City of Bell scandal and merge relevant content. Best, GPL93 (talk) 21:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. It turns out I cannot delete the article since it has so many revisions. Could a steward handle it, please? Tone 22:46, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of Decepticons[edit]

List of Decepticons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Same rationale as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Autobots that was just deleted. Anyone worried about the redirects to the article can either move them now or request they be retained should this end in delete.

This list no longer has any utility. The series previously had somewhere between 600-1000 character articles. It now has 20. There are also around 20 character lists, so this is not a necessary navigational list. Decepticon can hold a small list of blue links if that's actually necessary. This is just a barebones list of names, and even that is useless because most of these characters have two to three different versions due to most of these series being completely different continuities only sharing some core character concepts. Due to that, this cannot function as a proper navigational hub without being even more of a mess than its current incarnation. TTN (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete pure fancruft. Most of the bluelinks are either circular or point to something irrelevant, eg Squawkbox. buidhe 23:52, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete It's clumsily and poorly worded and other articles cover all of it.Halbared (talk) 23:54, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Pretty much my same argument here as on the recently closed AFD on the corresponding Autobots list. Every major iteration of the franchise already has coverage of their major characters, whether on the many other Lists of Transformers characters or in their own articles. A list that just jams in every Decepticon, regardless of notability, from multiple series, timelines, and continuities into one place is not a useful way to organize information that is either already found in better form elsewhere or not notable enough to cover. Decepticons are notable, but this list is just WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Rorshacma (talk) 00:03, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - The Transformers story arcs are too separate to create a coherent list that passes WP:LISTN, and most of the content on this page is irrelevant to anything. Hog Farm (talk) 05:03, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Userfy - I believe this list can be made functional, but I don't have the time to do so now. I'd like it to be moved to a subpage in my userspace so I don't have to start from scratch later. Argento Surfer (talk) 15:49, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. As others have already pointed out, the characters on this list are already present on other lists. There is nothing lost by getting rid of this list other than duplicated text. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 20:04, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - per nom. Videogameplayer99 (talk) 22:52, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Procedural delete. I would have wanted List of Autobots to stay, but no that it's been deleted, it feels silly to keep List of Decepticons around. Being a Decepticon is in no way any more notable than being an Autobot, or vice versa. JIP | Talk 21:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment to closing admin: This article has been edited 9K times, so that's another steward to ask at meta:Steward requests/Miscellaneous. ミラP 22:54, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete WP:INDISCRIMINATE list that fails WP's current notability criteria for lists._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 06:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per pretty much everything above - INDISCRIMINATE is a good enough reason. Red Phoenix ^talk 12:54, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep Since relisting to aloow for examination of the sources, a consensus has emerged that the article should be kept. (non-admin closure) ——SN54129 13:22, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

John Tiedtke[edit]

John Tiedtke (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:GNG. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:55, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• keep [4] appears to be very strong as does [5]. They feel a bit too positive, but I think both are reliable sources and certainly cover the man in detail. There are a few other, mostly similar, sources. Hobit (talk) 22:05, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1 is not a WP:GNG-satisfying source. There is no secondary source content from the author, Steven Brown, Sentinel Classical Music Critic. The whole article is subject quoting and reformatted information straight from the subject. That is not independent, as required by the GNG. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:01, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you're saying, but I'll disagree with that. It's in part an interview, but also the author spoke to others (McKeans for example) and has some actual research of his own. I'm comfortable with it as independent and reliable. And I've never agreed with the notion that interviews by reliable sources don't count for the GNG. I know a number of people support that, but WP:GNG doesn't have such a requirement as I read it. Hobit (talk) 05:59, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you point to a sentence or two that is secondary source content created by the author? —SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:11, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how you are defining secondary source in this context (I think you and I have discussed the various definitions by different academic disciplines in the past), but I'd say the 3rd through 6th paragraph, as well as the 8th ("At age 90..."), 10th, "Tiedtke sits on United Arts' board of trustees with representatives of some of Central Florida's biggest corporations. Yet he notices that these businesses, much larger than his own, give no more to United Arts than he does." "*Tiedtke has been connected to Central Florida in one way or another for almost his entire life. Though he was born in Toledo, Ohio - where his father and uncle were the prosperous owners of a large supermarket and department store - he and his family began spending parts of the winters in Orlando in the early 1920s. The Tiedtkes lived near Colonial Drive and Magnolia Avenue. A family named McKean was among their neighbors - and two of the McKean boys, Hugh and Keith, became young Tiedtke's friends for life. Hugh, who died in 1995, went on to become Rollins' president and a co-founder of the Morse Museum of American Art in Winter Park. Keith, a retired college professor who lives in Winter Park, said the Tiedtke he met 75 years ago was much like the one he knows today."

I'd call all that reporting rather than just interview questions and answers. Not sure if that's what you are looking for. There is a fair bit more than that. Could you give an example of coverage of a person in a newspaper article that is more like what you feel is required to count as a source? Hobit (talk) 18:07, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I too call all that reporting, repeating of facts without comment or bias, like photocopying. Photocopying does not turn primary sources information into secondary source information, what is needed is author-source commentary, contextualisation, or any transformation of the primary source material. At an absolute minimum, I am looking for an author-sourced adjective applied to the subject, which I did not find. The standard minimum is more like two strung sentences of commentary. Some say 100 words. This source has no commentary, if you exclude the non-independent quotes. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:21, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As we have in the past, we'll have to agree to disagree. Good news reporting (rather than editorializing), like good academic papers, shouldn't have commentary. They report the facts. We want facts, not opinions, in our articles. Requiring a source to have opinions before we can use it to count toward our inclusion guidelines doesn't seem like a standard that's found in WP:N nor one that, IMO, makes sense. We'd have a hard time writing articles on science things with that requirement. Hobit (talk) 14:24, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Facts are good, but independent secondary sources are what’s required to justify covering the topic. It is a straight reading of WP:N, and it is the policy WP:PSTS that requires some secondary sources no matter how many reports and facts there are. Reports merely repeating facts are not secondary sources. I’d like to keep this topic, but we need evidence (2 sources) that anyone has cared to publish any comment on him. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:57, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2 March 25, 2016, by Michael McLeod, may be OK. SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with Orlando Magazine and Orlando Sentinel, the former of which still does not have an article, is that they are local media (in particular, this seems to be a problem with the OM). Now, WP:AUD is a guideline for organizations, and I believe there is no consensus to apply it to biographies, but there is also no consensus to ignore it - and IMHO it is something to to consider. A person whose coverage is limited to local (city) media, not even regional, IMHO falls on wrong side of borderline notability. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:24, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is ok to be lenient with local coverage for non commercial topics, and tough for commercial topics. Local businesses use their connections to influence favourable coverage. Sports should be considered commercial, if connected to ticket sales. Tiedtke does not at all connected to current commercial interests, and so I don’t think there is reason to suspect non-independence of local coverage. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:47, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SmokeyJoe: Right, but keep in mind the charity-donations-write about our benefactor angle. Now, charity and such can totally make someone notable, but it would be good to see coverage from independent sources that are less likely to be variations of obituaries penned as thanks for the donations during his lifetime. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Per my argument above, and an earlier prod (subject fails WP:NBIO as they only have local coverage). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:24, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I know you described your reasoning above, but you've linked to WP:NBIO and indicated that they fail this guideline due to their being only local coverage. As you note, local coverage isn't even mentioned in WP:NBIO. And secondly, local in this case is 2.1 Million people in the greater Orlando area.I just don't think it's reasonable to claim someone fails a guideline for a reason not listed in that guideline. I'm fine with an IAR argument (that the guideline *should* say this), and between your two comments I think that's what you are saying. In any case, there are other sources [6] itself is a source and lists a few others. [7]. But yes, those are also local to the area. Hobit (talk) 14:04, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good finds. Sufficient coverage in local sources can be an argument something is on the wrong side of borderline. It's not a simple math. I got interested in 'local' coverage few years back when there was a bio of an architect whose only source was an in-depth biography published in church newsletter. Anyway, since [8] does not seem to be peer reviewed, I am afraid I am still leaning towards delete. If it was, however, published in a peer reviewed outlet, or a non-local paper, I'd be happy to reconsider my vote. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:52, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• WP:N has no conditions on coverage i.e. local, regional national. Lightburst (talk) 23:43, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - As written, the stub does not contain enough information to satisfy general notability. After four days in AFD, the article has not been expanded per Heymann, indicating that the additional sources are not likely to be out there. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:51, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Robert McClenon Your supposition about the lack of sources is refuted by facts. Your speculation has been torched. Heymann is easily surpassed. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• • Really and truly our inclusion guidelines don't account for the current status of the article... I'd be willing to fix it up, but hate to put work into something that's likely to get deleted. Hobit (talk) 07:13, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I agree. Wikipedia:Editing policy#Wikipedia is a work in progress: perfection is not required is policy. Furthermore, the current article is a neutral two-sentence stub cited to one reliable source. Cunard (talk) 10:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
  1. Brotemarkle, Ben (2017-04-04). "Florida Frontiers: Winter Park, a haven of culture". Florida Today. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  2. Brown, Steven (1998-02-22). "John Tiedtke: A Cultural Icon". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  3. Moore, Roger (2004-12-23). "Benefactor's Legacy Lives in Music, Art". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  4. McLeod, Michael (2016-03-25). "Still Blooming". Orlando Magazine. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  5. Wigler, Stephen. (1984-02-19). "John Tiedtke shares good fortune with community" (pages 1 and 2). Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original (pages 1 and 2) on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. – via Newspapers.com.
  6. Noles, Randy (2015-06-07). "Iron Man of the Arts". Winter Park Magazine. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  7. Vincent, Don (1952-08-25). "Cattle Clatter". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com.
  8. Sanchez, Dina (2001-11-15). "Business Leaders To Be Honored Tonight". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  9. "Rollins College Trustee To Get CHIEF Award". Orlando Evening Star. 1972-01-26. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com.
  10. "John Tiedtke Engaged". Orlando Evening Star. 1948-08-10. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com.
  11. "John Tiedtke Takes Bride". Orlando Evening Star. 1948-11-02. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com.
  12. DeMarko, Sharon (1973-04-08). "Askew and the Arts: Setting Excellence Standards". Pensacola News Journal. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com.
  13. Noles, Randy (2015-12-23). "The Hugh We Never Knew". Winter Park Magazine. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.
  14. "Lettuce Harvesting Booms On 420-Acre Shawnee Farms". The Miami News. 1946-01-29. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com.
  15. Irwin, David. "John M. Tiedtke (1907-2004): Treasurer, Trustee and Supporter". Rollins College. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28.

  Sources with quotes

  Brotemarkle, Ben (2017-04-04). "Florida Frontiers: Winter Park, a haven of culture". Florida Today. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: John Tiedtke was another important figure in the cultural development of Winter Park. Tiedtke vacationed in Florida with his family in the 1920s. In the 1930s, he was very successful in the state’s sugar industry, and he moved to Winter Park in 1948. The Winter Park Bach Festival was established in 1935. Tiedtke served as president of the event from 1950 until his death in 2004 at the age of 97. “The Bach Festival was started by a very dynamic woman, a Mrs. Sprague-Smith, and she did a great job of creating it and getting it going,” Tiedtke remembered in a 1995 interview. “In 1950, she died suddenly. I was on the board, and nobody else on the board wanted the responsibility of trying to run it and keep it going, so I finally agreed to do it. Then, for two or three years, Hugh McKean, the president of Rollins, and I kept trying to find somebody to run it, and we couldn’t. He finally suggested that I just take the title of president because I’d been running it anyway.” Brown, Steven (1998-02-22). "John Tiedtke: A Cultural Icon". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: That sort of commitment is beyond most of us. But John Tiedtke's example will be before us again as of Thursday, when the 63rd annual Bach Festival of Winter Park begins. Since 1950, Tiedtke has been the festival's leader - not only running it but helping foot the bill for it. He has pitched in with a variety of the area's other cultural groups too. He has served Rollins College in several capacities, including a 20-year stint as its treasurer. He has helped support the Enzian Cinema Cafe in Maitland - which his daughter, Tina, founded. He has given $100,000 a year to United Arts of Central Florida since it was founded in 1988. Tiedtke's real business is a group of sugar, citrus and corn farms near Lake Okeechobee. He has done everything else as a sideline. Moore, Roger (2004-12-23). "Benefactor's Legacy Lives in Music, Art". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: The arts in Central Florida lost a giant on Tuesday. John M. Tiedtke, local businessman, philanthropist and tireless patron of the arts, died at 97. ... Tiedtke was born Sept. 15, 1907, in Toledo, Ohio, into a wealthy family -- they owned a supermarket and department store in Toledo. He created even more wealth by investing in sugar, citrus and corn farms on land near Lake Okeechobee. Land companies, development companies, Shawnee Cattle and Atlas Sugar were among his holdings. But it was what he did with that wealth that has had so much impact. He spent millions bringing great music, film and art to his adopted home -- Central Florida. McLeod, Michael (2016-03-25). "Still Blooming". Orlando Magazine. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article ntoes: Enzian owes its existence to John Tiedtke, whose family owned a prosperous department store in Toledo, Ohio, and had a winter home in Orlando at the corner of Hillcrest Street and Magnolia Avenue. Tiedtke made Winter Park his permanent home as an adult, tending to the family’s investments in South Florida farmland and becoming a savior to nearly every arts organization in town, including the Bach Festival, Florida Symphony Orchestra, Orlando Museum of Art, Orlando Opera, and Festival of Orchestras—all that besides being a founder/funder of United Arts of Central Florida. Tiedtke’s love of the arts drew him close to people of similar tastes. His best friend from boyhood on was another hugely influential Central Florida arts philanthropist and cultural advocate, Rollins College president and Morse Museum co-founder Hugh McKean, who saved priceless Tiffany stained-glass windows from the wrecking ball. And Tiedtke’s wife was a woman who was raised alongside the Danube, in the City of Music, home to Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and Schubert. Her name was Sylvia Southard. She was a princess and a survivor. ... Sylvia met John Tiedtke after the war, while visiting relatives in Winter Park. They married in 1948 and had two children, Philip and Tina, with whom they would summer in the family castle, where one of Sylvia’s favorite activities was taking the children hiking up through the mountain passes, enjoying the wild Alpine flowers they saw along the way. Among them was a rare, velvety blue, trumpet-shaped bloom called enzian. In 1985, when Tina Tiedtke took up the cause of creating an alternative art movie house for Orlando, the seed money for the enterprise came from her art-loving father, while its name owed its inspiration to the rarest of the flowers she’d seen on those mountain treks with her mother. Wigler, Stephen. (1984-02-19). "John Tiedtke shares good fortune with community" (pages 1 and 2). Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original (pages 1 and 2) on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: He bought more and more municipal bonds. By the time Florida's economy began to revive, in 1938, John Tiedtke had made a fortune of his own. He went on to make — and continues to make — an even greater fortune in the Everglades in the sugar business. ... For as little as $10 an acre, sometimes for as little as unpaid back taxes, Tiedtke bought several hundred acres in the Everglads and began cultivating sugar. The business is called Shawnee Farms and now consists of vast tracts of land cultivated in sugar cane. ... When Tiedtke wasn't spending his time on his Everglads plantations, he was living in Winter Park, and there his association with Rollins College began. During the spring semesters, he taught photography classes. By the 1940s, he began teaching business courses. He still goes every day to a rented office on the Rollins campus where he spends time working on his farms' business, on his own investments and on the business of the arts in Central Florida. Noles, Randy (2015-06-07). "Iron Man of the Arts". Winter Park Magazine. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: By the time Sinclair arrived, the society and its annual festival had for decades been the personal domain of Tiedtke, a shrewd businessman who had made his fortune growing sugar, citrus and corn in South Florida. McKean had asked his boyhood friend to take charge in 1950, when founding society President Isabelle Sprague-Smith died and the organization’s future seemed in doubt. The no-nonsense Tiedtke proved a fortuitous choice. He loved music — he played a little piano, but mostly enjoyed listening ---— and was a consistent and generous donor to community-based arts organizations. At Rollins, he had been treasurer and chairman of the board of trustees. ... Tiedtke died the following year at 97, and to the end was cajoling Central Florida businesspeople to do their civic duty and give more to the arts. In fact, Sinclair’s continued presence in Winter Park can be counted among the plain-spoken philanthropist’s many legacies. Just before Tiedtke’s death, Rollins established the John M. Tiedtke Endowed Chair of Music. For once, the man for whom the chair was named wasn’t asked to write a check. Others contributed generously, including an anonymous $250,000 donation that was later revealed to have come from one Fred McFeely Rogers, Class of ’51, a music composition major who became TV’s Mister Rogers and befriended the Sinclairs during his frequent Winter Park visits. Vincent, Don (1952-08-25). "Cattle Clatter". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: John Tiedtke, treasurer and vice-president of Rollins College is doing some diversified farming at his Shawnee Farm just over the line in Glades County, a few miles from here. When Tiedtke bought the property about 1937 it was with the intention of raising sugar cane. This he has done successfully and this year will produce about 1,500 acres of it. Then he began to grow lettuce, built a packing house to handle the crop. It was the lettuce that helped him get in the cattle business, according to his manager, Otto Larson. Disposal of the waste from the packing house posed something of a problem so Tiedtke bought a few cattle to feed. And three years ago he went into the cow business seriously. Sanchez, Dina (2001-11-15). "Business Leaders To Be Honored Tonight". Orlando Sentinel. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: Junior Achievement, in its annual recognition of Orlando-area business leaders, will also induct three people into its Mid-Florida Business Hall of Fame: ... John Tiedtke, head of the Bach Festival in Winter Park and a sugar-cane industry executive. ... John Tiedtke. As president of Eastgate Farms and Shawnee Farms, two sugar-cane plantations near Lake Okeechobee, Tiedtke has left his mark on the South Florida industry. But it has been his passion for the arts, rather than his ardor for agriculture, that brought him to prominence in Central Florida. Back in 1949, Tiedtke breathed life into the Florida Symphony Orchestra and continued to support the group until its end in 1993. More notably, he has headed the Bach Festival of Winter Park for more than 50 years. "Rollins College Trustee To Get CHIEF Award". Orlando Evening Star. 1972-01-26. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: Rollins College trustee John Meyer Tiedtke is one of eight distinguished Floridians to receive "C.H.I.E.F." awards as "Champions of Higher Independent Education in Florida" at the annual Independent Colleges and Universities of Florida (ICUF) banquet, to be held at Walt Disney World's Contemporary Hotel, Thursday. ... Tiedtke was born in Toledo Ohio and attended Culver Military Academy. He received his AB degree from Dartmouth College and an MCS degree from the Dartmouth Amos Tuck School of Business Administration. "John Tiedtke Engaged". Orlando Evening Star. 1948-08-10. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: Announcement is made by Prince and Princess Alfred Hohenlohe, Stainach, Austria, of the engagement of Princess Hohenlohe's daughter, Sylvia Southard, to John Tiedtke, son of Mr. and Mrs. Ernest Tiedtke, Dorr St., Toledo, Ohio. "John Tiedtke Takes Bride". Orlando Evening Star. 1948-11-02. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: Of wide social interest in the North is the marriage of Miss Sylvia Maria Southard of Toledo O., to John M. Tiedtke of Toledo and Orlando, which took place Saturday afternoon in the chapel of Collingwood Presbyterian Church, Toledo. Dr. R. Lincoln Long officiated before an altar banked with woodwardia ferns, white chrysanthemums and pompoms. The immediate families were present. DeMarko, Sharon (1973-04-08). "Askew and the Arts: Setting Excellence Standards". Pensacola News Journal. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: Individuals honored by the governor have also donated years of energies to initiating and perpetuating fine arts as paragons of tradition. John Tiedtke of Winter Park has been president of the 38-year active Bach Festival Society, America's second oldest commemoration of the master's music. Active in founding the Florida Symphony Orchestra of which he has served on the board since its inception, Tiedtke was founding director of Channel 24, Central Florida's Educational Television Station, and the Central Florida Council of Arts and Sciences. Noles, Randy (2015-12-23). "The Hugh We Never Knew". Winter Park Magazine. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: Some were lucky enough to join McKean and his childhood friend John Tiedtke for one of the duo’s legendary lunches. Tiedtke, a wealthy sugar cane grower, also headed the Bach Festival Society of Winter Park and was a past professor, dean, treasurer and vice president of Rollins College, which McKean led as president from 1951 to 1969. ... The intelligence assignment was likely a result of his travel abroad; he and Tiedtke had traipsed across Europe together in 1936, ostensibly to tour the continent’s great museums and concert halls. The navy’s intelligence units were actively seeking Americans who had spent time overseas. "Lettuce Harvesting Booms On 420-Acre Shawnee Farms". The Miami News. 1946-01-29. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28 – via Newspapers.com. The article notes: With 1,500 crates per day passing through the packing plants, lettuce harvesting on the 520-acre tract of Shawnee farms near here is now in full swing. Owned by John Tiedtke, Shawnee farms is experiencing its most successful lettuce season this year. Irwin, David. "John M. Tiedtke (1907-2004): Treasurer, Trustee and Supporter". Rollins College. Archived from the original on 2020-02-28. Retrieved 2020-02-28. The article notes: John M. Tiedtke was born on September 15, 1907 in Toledo, Ohio. His father, Ernest Tiedtke owned a grocery store. As a young man he attended the Culver Military Academy. From 1920 to 1921 John Tiedtke studied music at Rollins College and in 1926 he attended Dartmouth College where he received an Artium Baccalaureatus Degree in 1930. He was a member of the Sigma Nu fraternity. He furthered his education by attending Dartmouth’s Amos Tuck School of Business administration, and graduated with an M.C.S Degree in 1932. He then worked for two years as an accountant at the firm of Widemen and Madden in Toledo. After the Great Depression struck America, Tiedtke moved to Florida to assist his uncle’s business.[1] ... When John M. Tiedtke wasn’t working, he spent much of his leisure time playing tennis or pursing his musical interests. He was a founding member of the Florida Symphony Orchestra. He made generous donations to both the Rollins College Music and Theater Departments. Tiedtke’s most notable contribution to the arts was his involvement in the Bach Festival. Since1950 he had served as the president of the Bach Festival and turned the program into the high quality performances that it is today.[3]

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow John Tiedtke to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 10:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• John Tiedtke has received significant coverage in reliable sources in the Orlando Sentinel in 1984, 1998, and 2004. He received significant coverage in Winter Park Magazine in 2015 and in Orlando Magazine in 2016.

  Florida Today said Tiedtke "was another important figure in the cultural development of Winter Park" who "was very successful in the state’s sugar industry".

  The Orlando Magazine noted that Tiedtke was "a savior to nearly every arts organization in town, including the Bach Festival, Florida Symphony Orchestra, Orlando Museum of Art, Orlando Opera, and Festival of Orchestras—all that besides being a founder/funder of United Arts of Central Florida".

  The Orlando Sentinel said, "The arts in Central Florida lost a giant on Tuesday. John M. Tiedtke, local businessman, philanthropist and tireless patron of the arts, died at 97. ... Tiedtke was born Sept. 15, 1907, in Toledo, Ohio, into a wealthy family -- they owned a supermarket and department store Tiedtke's in Toledo. He created even more wealth by investing in sugar, citrus and corn farms on land near Lake Okeechobee. Land companies, development companies, Shawnee Cattle and Atlas Sugar were among his holdings. But it was what he did with that wealth that has had so much impact. He spent millions bringing great music, film and art to his adopted home -- Central Florida."

  Tiedtke was a professor at Rollins College which established the John M. Tiedtke Endowed Chair of Music. The chair was funded in part by an anonymous $250,000 donation from Fred Rogers who is TV's Mister Rogers.

  He married Princess Sylvia Southard, the daughter of Prince Alfred of Hohenlohe-Langenburg in Stainach, Austria (the son of Ernst II, Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg) this is wrong because the Prince Alfred who was the son of Ernst II, Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg was born in and died in 1911. Revised at 08:46, 2 March 2020 (UTC).

  He made his fortune from Eastgate Farms and Shawnee Farms, two sugar-cane plantations near Lake Okeechobee.

  In 1972, he was one of eight Floridians to receive a "C.H.I.E.F." award ("Champions of Higher Independent Education in Florida") from the Independent Colleges and Universities of Florida.

  In 1973, Florida Governor Reubin Askew gave him one of the "Governor's Awards for the Arts". Tiedtke was the founding director of Channel 24 (now WUCF-TV).

  Cunard (talk) 10:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikipedia:Notability (people) does not require non-local coverage. Furthermore, the Orlando Sentinel is a major regional newspaper, not a small local newspaper. Even WP:AUD (Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Audience) (which applies to companies, not people) says that "Evidence of significant coverage by international or national, or at least regional, media is a strong indication of notability." WP:AUD says that even regional media is a "strong indication of notability".

  That Tiedtke was the subject of multiple articles in the regional newspaper Orlando Sentinel over a period of decades (1984, 1998, and 2004) strongly establishes he is notable.

  Cunard (talk) 10:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Some great work by Cunard. I will see if someone is inclined to start adding to the article. Lightburst (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• KEEP Cunard makes a convincing case for notability of this person. Dream Focus 23:56, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• I WISH that User:Cunard would heed some of the advice in WP:THREE. The length and detail of his source listing is impressive, but often on examination the coverage is too thin, and he may be considered to have a reputation for attempted baboozling of discussion by WP:Reference bombing. Did Cunard read anything he wrote (or was it machine produced). Did anyone else? Can they point to the two-or-three *best* sources for demonstrating that others have published coverage of the subject? —SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:18, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment SmokeyJoe If you had actually read the sources cited in this article, you would realize your comments are unfounded. Indeed, other editors would apologize and graciously admit they were wrong. And that this discussion is a waste of valuable editors' time.7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:33, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I read enough to come to a conclusion to !vote “keep” and stopped there. Is that not good enough. I do not agree that my comments were unfounded. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 16:44, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SmokeyJoe You are right. I was wrong and apologize. Too many notes. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your great work on the article, 7&6=thirteen (talk · contribs) and StrayBolt (talk · contribs)! SmokeyJoe (talk · contribs), I read everything I write. Nothing is machine produced, which I wish were possible because it would save me a significant amount of time. For Google Books and Newspapers.com sources, I manually type the text included in my quotes.

I try to provide nearly all of the useful reliable sources I have found in the hopes that if I don't have the time to work on the article, another editor will be able to use those sources to expand the article (as I responded to 7&6=thirteen's message here). I am very grateful to 7&6=thirteen and StrayBolt for their work on the article. Regarding WP:THREE, I generally list the strongest sources I have found at the beginning of my list of sources.

Cunard (talk) 08:46, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Cunard, ok, thanks, great. I’m impressed, it would exhaust me. I think in the past I’ve seen you list less impressive sources. If the best are at the top that’s great. I was apprehensive when I saw the list to review, and “delete” means that virtually everyone is to be faulted. Like I said, this time, I had only read the top few before I saw that this was a “keep”. I also note that you find things that my searches did not. Do you have special access to paywalled sources? —SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:59, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Gut feel, from reading Cunard sources. All of them feel questionably non-independent, but not offensively so, especially there being no hint of self promotion of himself through these sources. Some of them casually report his passing. There is more than enough secondary source coverage, reliable source coverage, and significant or depth of coverage. Tiedtke should be included. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:26, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Meets WP:GNG No compliance with WP:Before. Nominator chose to disregard available sources. Referencing can and should be has improved, but the sources exist and are cited. So this article is not what it was when repeatedly nominated for deletion, and now should be is easily surpasses up to WP:HEY standard. Clearly an important philanthropist. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:27, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or merge into Tiedtke's, per WP:BEFORE (part C). Pburka (talk) 14:23, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Thanks to User:Cunard references and User:7&6=thirteen improvements, passes WP:GNG. I was initially looking to see if he held a named chair while being a professor, but there now is a chair named after him. Will try to add a few more refs. StrayBolt (talk) 17:18, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep, the concerns being that language in the current version appears to be a close paraphrase from the obituary, and the last sentence of the lede paragraph is hagiographic, but biographical notability has been satisfied. I expect an apology from User:7&6=thirteen for their incivility, similar to the one already provided to User:SmokeyJoe. Like SmokeyJoe, I have no apology for my previous !vote, which was reasonable, and did not warrant an insult. 7+6 could simply have pinged me and asked me to change my !vote -- which I have done anyway. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:33, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Thanks for changing your vote. Reasonable minds may differ on voting history. Hopefully we can all learn for the future. Next time I'll ping you. In any event, apology extended. We are all volunteers and working in common cause. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:39, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Any argument invoking local coverage is bunk (it's Orlando, Florida, not Orlando, Oklahoma, and should we disregard The New York Times coverage of prominent New Yorkers?). WP:BASIC states "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability". Coverage in multiple independent sources exist. The essay WP:ITSLOCAL discourages the argument that local coverage is a valid reason for deletion. Note that coverage also exists in a Toledo Blade obituary [9]. The article can and should be improved with a tone more removed from the laudatory nature of some obituaries, but Articles for Deletion is not Articles for Improvement. --Animalparty! (talk) 20:33, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Your criticism of the laudatory tone is understood. The problem is that his life, its purpose, arc and direction, and the reporting of it, are set into that frame. WP:Peacock really doesn't apply. Trimming out that material is a mischaracterization by omission; and it plays into the hands of those editors who want to excise material because it doesn't extensively mention him. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:54, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The User:Cunard makes it clear. An@ss_koko^(speak)(war) 21:21, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:47, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vikki Thomas[edit]

Vikki Thomas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:Notability_(people). I was unable to find significant coverage for the article subject, only a few passing mentions. Sources in the article now are unreliable. The previous AFD conclusion was to delete. Perhaps this should be salted if the decision is again to delete. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 21:02, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete none of the three references are reliable and a search didn't turn up anything supporting a WP:GNG pass. Best, GPL93 (talk) 18:09, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Delete: Most sources seem to be tabloids with questionable reliability; there are quite a few of them, though. The subject has done some TV work, but not enough to meet WP:NACTOR, in my opinion. I'll defer to others as regards her modelling career and I will update my vote if better sources can be located. Dflaw4 (talk) 04:23, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete a non-notable actress.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:39, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:47, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IEEE Workshops on Wireless LAN[edit]

IEEE Workshops on Wireless LAN (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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A minor series of three IEEE meetings. The only references are to primary sources. There is no significant coverage in Google. Most of the google hits for "IEEE Workshops on Wireless LAN" or "IEEE Workshop on Wireless LAN" are either to Wikipedia, Wikipedia mirrors, and primary sources. Was likely created by a user with a COI, judging by their other contributions. ST47 (talk) 21:01, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - It is just an article about some conferences with no significant coverage or notability. Analog Horror, (Speak) 02:00, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The article's author did nothing to establish the notability of this event, which seems more run of the mill than anything.TH1980 (talk) 02:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:47, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tiis Holoni, Arizona[edit]

Tiis Holoni, Arizona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I get nothing for this one except geoclickbait and a name on a topo map which mysteriously appears round about an intersection in the desert. It geolocates to a spot in an arroyo with nothing around it except a recently built church near a house, a few miles to the west. I'm guessing the anme may be Navaho but I have no idea what it might mean; in any case, there doesn't ever seem to have been anything here. Mangoe (talk) 20:23, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment the article starter should be notified on their talk page when the article is nominated for deletion. @Onel5969: Lightburst (talk) 22:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Zero results on newspapers.com, no Google results with "Navajo" or anything in Books either. First appeared on 1969 topo but not in 1982. Locale in the 1986 National Gazetteer. Reywas92^Talk 00:10, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not a populated place so fails WP:GEOLAND Lightburst (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This seems to mean (with a bit of WP:SYNTH) "the place where cottonwood trees existed" in the Navajo language ([10], [11]). However I could find no sources other than maps.----Pontificalibus 12:55, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 11:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Government Vocational Higher Secondary School, Kadirur[edit]

Government Vocational Higher Secondary School, Kadirur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Unremarkable secondary school. Sources that would contribute to GNG not found. buidhe 15:20, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete seemingly all search examples only point to directory listings etc, no independent notability. Fails NSCHOOL.--Goldsztajn (talk) 12:09, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:49, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vridhi Jain[edit]

Vridhi Jain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The usual PR about a teen beauty pageant contestant. The refs are the usual PR DGG ( talk ) 20:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Fails WP:ANYBIO, WP:GNG and WP:NMODEL.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 02:00, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not notable, did not meet WP:GNG.--Richie Campbell (talk) 05:10, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not at all notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:40, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• DO not Delete as she is the national beauty pageant title holder along with the Continental title. The article only mentions her achievements and her work. More references can be added and the article can be improved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aayat1998 (talk • contribs) 10:14, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - can't find any evidence that this passes WP:GNG Adamtt9 (talk) 13:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Do Not Delete Instead the article can be worked to improve as the lady holds the prestigious title with many coverages available on internet. Also, the another titleholder Aayushi Dholakia from the same pageant is significantly famous. These two girls hold the prestigious teen titles of India. The editors can improve the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aayat18 (talk • contribs) 21:57, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:51, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vista Encantada, Arizona[edit]

Vista Encantada, Arizona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This is a picnic area in Grand Canyon National Park, presumably named for the spectacular view obtained there. Go far enough back and there isn't even a road in the area, much less any indication of a settlement. I get some tourist clickbait and that's it. Possibly it could be redirected to the park but since it doesn't appear to be mentioned there I'm not inclined to do so. Mangoe (talk) 20:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment the article starter should be notified on their talk page when the article is nominated for deletion. @Onel5969: Lightburst (talk) 22:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Quite obviously not a populated place now or ever, another GNIS and mass-stub-production failure. Just look at the decision card and document folders on the GNIS page (or [12]). Not worth a redirect, how many viewpoints are at Grand Canyon? Reywas92^Talk 23:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not a populated place so fails WP:GEOLAND Lightburst (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Grand Canyon Railway. Sandstein 11:59, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Willaha, Arizona[edit]

Willaha, Arizona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The text claims this as a "former stop on the Grand Canyon Railway", which I don't believe is true. It is on that line (and you can see MoW equipment and a huge pile of ties in the GMap aerial at this time), but I really doubt that the GCRY ever stopped there in the middle of nowhere. It was a siding on the ATSF, and is referred to a couple of places: for example, this AEC report describes it as an unstaffed ATSF station. Otherwise I get the usual geoclickbait and pictures of GCRY trains, and that's it. I'm not seeing the notability here. Mangoe (talk) 19:45, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment the article starter should be notified on their talk page when the article is nominated for deletion. @Onel5969: Lightburst (talk) 22:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• It's accurate, I put it there: see [13]. There was at least a sheep ranch in the area. See https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/ for getting free access to newspapers.com. There are more hits mentioning it there so will probably pass but if you know me, I'm all for covering it in a main article rather than low-readership stubs when feasible. Reywas92^Talk 23:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Grand Canyon Railway where it's already mentioned. It is detailed here (pdf file pages 17-18). Built for livestock and ore loading, it had a bunkhouse for workers but no evidence it was really a populated place. ----Pontificalibus 15:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Dissident Prophet. Sandstein 11:59, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dissident Prophet discography[edit]

Dissident Prophet discography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This is a discography for an unnotable band where not a single album or single has charted in any country. Whilst the main group has got some independent sources, the virtually the entire article was created by one WP:SPA editer Firstade, who also created this discography article JaAlDo (talk) 19:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because these album pages also contain no sourced information and are essentially just track lists:

We're Not Grasshoppers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

21st Century Spin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Modern Man (Maccabees) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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• The band are notable with coverage in CrossRythyms and Tollbooth which are reliable music sources but there is no need for a seperate discography page so it should be merged into the Dissident Prophet article and the three album pages redirected to that article as they show no independent notability imv, Atlantic306 (talk) 01:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge discography article to the band's article, and Redirect the album articles to the band as well. As stated nicely by Atlantic306 above, the band itself has a little notability but their releases do not. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 16:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge and redirect per above. I’m not particularly convinced of the band’s notability, but unless that gets sent to AFD, that’s a separate issue, and the merging/redirecting still works. (Not to mention that, if the band’s article were deleted, then it would mean this would all be be deleted all the same, which is the only reasonable alternative here. We simply don’t need separate discography articles for bands with no charting to to document.) Sergecross73 msg me 17:02, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, though the recommendation is to merge the discography article to the band's article, there is practically nothing to merge because none of their releases charted and all that's left are album and song titles. If that is the ultimate decision in this AfD, I will do the merge myself in about a minute. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:21, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:51, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Carbonara[edit]

Eric Carbonara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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No evidence of notability whatsoever. None of the bands he was allegedly in have WP articles. The private studio he runs is not notable. Nothing is sourced, and no sources are available. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 19:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete a non-notable guitarist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:55, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Somehow this article has escaped notice since 2006, when even the style of LinkedIn entry that it is trying to imitate was in its infancy. His early bands are non-notable and the article is probably an attempt to promote his current business. See WP:NOTLINKEDIN, WP:PROMOTION. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Bruderhof Communities. Total redirect consensus and per WP:CHEAP. (non-admin closure) AmericanAir88^(talk) 20:07, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Plough Publishing House[edit]

Plough Publishing House (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This page does not pass Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) I think. All publications about this Publishing House I could check were published by the Plough itself (simply on their own website, https://www.plough.com/), excluding only this. I can not check German language sources that are not available online, however this page does not exist in German Wikipedia, or in any other language. The page was created and edited by several accounts, such as this, and this with a probable WP:COI: they probably came from the Bruderhof Communities, the parent organization of this Publishing House. Some of these accounts were blocked for sockpuppetry - (link). My very best wishes (talk) 19:04, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to Bruderhof Communities, where it's mentioned. buidhe 03:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to Bruderhof Communities sounds like a good compromise since it's mentioned there. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Third !vote to redirect to Bruderhof Communities at least until more sources become available on the publishing house itself.--Jahaza (talk) 16:04, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:51, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hong Kong Music Talent Award[edit]

Hong Kong Music Talent Award (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Per WP:N. Comatmebro (talk) 18:35, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Speedy Delete Per A7. No sources found and it is a event with no coverage or established notability. AmericanAir88^(talk) 20:06, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Grand Canyon Railway. (non-admin closure) buidhe 20:52, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Woodin, Arizona[edit]

Woodin, Arizona (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Moving on to Cononino Co., AZ, we have what appears from all evidence to have been a former ATSF water stop, with a water tank, an obviously artificial pond, some fencing, and that's it. Searching doesn't even produce real estate clickbait, and Elwood Lloyd doesn't mention the place. Mangoe (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment the article starter should be notified on their talk page when the article is nominated for deletion. @Onel5969: Lightburst (talk) 22:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Could not find a single mention of RR siding or otherwise on newspapers.com Reywas92^Talk 23:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Grand Canyon Railway. Built in 1917 for the Pitman Valley Land and Cattle Company as a short spur for cattle and sheep loading, it appears not to have been a populated place. As a station on the Grand Canyon Railway however it is documented in the National Register of Historic Places ([14] page 18 of pdf). It seems reasonable to send people searching for it to the railway article, where it is mentioned in the collapsed route map in the infobox.----Pontificalibus 15:23, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:52, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hari Dinesh[edit]

Hari Dinesh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Non-notable stunt master. Of the references used in this article, two are user profiles and the other two are about Hari Dinesh's father. GPL93 (talk) 18:26, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Per WP:N. Comatmebro (talk) 18:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete a non-notable stuntman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:38, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - stuntmen and body doubles, like producers, are very rarely notable. This article ties his notability too close to his family. Bearian (talk) 14:13, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Tone 22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dasha Nekrasova[edit]

Dasha Nekrasova (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Article is self-created and self-promotional; no notability. Being covered for 2 days in media as a meme and starring in low-budget softcore porn is not enough to warrant an article. Yellow-billed Loon (talk) 17:25, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep. I agree with people who voted "keep" during the first AfD, less than two months ago. She got non-trivial coverage in a large number of independent third-party sources (currently cited on the page, I removed only one of them after checking). For example, The Cut ([15] and [16]), The Times, Teen Vogue and Vice. The coverage is not just about the Infowars interview, so WP:BLP1E does not apply. Therefore, I think she easily passes WP:GNG. My very best wishes (talk) 19:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy keep. easily passes WP:GNG, already survived an AfD by a significant margin. this is the 2nd nomination from the same user (1st nomination was just last month), who appears to have a personal gripe with the subject. Nomination was unquestionably made for the purposes of vandalism or disruption. Pinchofhope (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Article subject is not notable and I agree that the article seems self-promotional Kokpep (talk) 06:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Per Pinchofhope. Article is good enough to pass WP:GNG. _SUPER ^ASTIG 04:08, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: There are enough reliable sources in the article to pass WP:GNG—sources which also discuss the subject in terms of her career as an actress. Dflaw4 (talk) 04:07, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: The article absolutely needs to be cleaned up, but as it stands it clearly demonstrates notability even if you just look at the sources in the article. Self promotion doesn't override the WP:GNG. Michepman (talk) 02:11, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. It appears notability was asserted, thanks to editors. Note there was a previous AfD under another name; this was also closed as keep. See here. (non-admin closure) Nightfury 14:34, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Autumn Phillips[edit]

Autumn Phillips (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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I would be raising this regardless of her recent separation from her husband. This person does not appear to have any significant notability independent of her husband, who is himself not far above the threshold of notability. He is one of the less prominent grandchildren of Queen Elizabeth II, and does not have any royal or noble title. See WP:NOTINHERITED. PatGallacher (talk) 14:45, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, and I would argue WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE as well, as she is not well-known outside of tabloid coverage. BonkHindrance (talk) 14:57, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Textbook example of WP:NOTINHERITEDTheLongTone (talk) 16:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I'm puzzled by the references above to WP:NOTINHERITED. That (influential) essay proposes arguments to be avoided in deletion discussions. Most examples given are of "keep" arguments but no one has suggested "keep" here so these examples do not seem to apply. However it also deprecates two "delete" arguments, one of which is "Delete she's only the U.S. President's wife". So, it seems to me that WP:NOTINHERITED suggests that the nomination here is a poor one and does not focus appropriately. I do have some sympathy with the WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE argument, however. Thincat (talk) 12:33, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I completely agree. Seeing WP:NOTINHERITED used as a sole reason (when it's not a guideline) for deletion seems misplaced here, because of the exact example it uses for a wife in that essay. Whisperjanes (talk) 02:47, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Peter Phillips is 15th in line of succession. Fact that they declined a royal title does not remove their royal lineage nor connection to royalty past or present. This is a question of how far removed from royalty should be considered notable under WP:GNG. I would argue if Peter Phillips is considered notable and included in WP, she should at least be merged into Peter Phillips PenulisHantu (talk) 14:26, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Probably merge. A cursory reference in Peter Phillips' article should be sufficient. RobinCarmody (talk) 22:19, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and create a (new) redirect to Peter Phillips. All of the content in this article that would be relevant to the article on Peter Phillips is already in the latter article. What remains is the personal family history of Autumn Phillips, who has always been a private figure who has never carried out public activities (unlike wives of US presidents). In fact, one could argue that there should never have been an article about her. She is a classic WP:BLP1E, that one event being married to a peripheral member of the British royal family whose own notability is borderline. Risker (talk) 01:10, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Her marriage to Peter Phillips does not make her notable automatically, but the coverage she has received does. Is anyone disputing that she has has received significant coverage in reliable sources? I don't see how WP:BLP1E applies here, the coverage relates to a number of different events: her wedding, the birth of her kids, the conversion from Catholicism and her divorce. She has made several public interviews, so she is not exactly avoiding public life. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 15:20, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

She also seems to have regularly participated in public events as a member of the royal family ([17], [18]), so WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE doesn't convince me. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 15:33, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Pax:Vobiscum. The Daily Mail is not considered an acceptable source for establishing notability or as references for BLPs. Risker (talk) 15:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not saying they should, I was merely pointing out that she has been regularly been participating in public events. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 19:04, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Then please find examples of her regularly participating in events as published in acceptable reference sources. What you've posted there isn't valid for the purposes of this discussion. Risker (talk) 20:38, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are conflating two different things. (1) She has received coverage in reliable sources as shown by the references already in the article, unless of course you don't think the Daily Telegraph counts as reliable. (2) She has participated in public events as a member of the royal family as shown by the Daily Mail articles. Here are other articles showing her participating in public events: [19][20][21]. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 21:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comments: Examples of "other articles" can give the wrong signal. The BBC example titled Queen attends landmark Braemar Gathering with content, "The Queen was accompanied by the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Charles and her eldest grandson Peter Phillips, and his wife Autumn." is the opposite of significant coverage and at the same time is the definition of passing mention. The example might be acceptable for content but does nothing to advance notability. Otr500 (talk) 23:42, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I explicitly said that those links were simply to prove that she participates in public events as a member of the royal family, making WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE irrelevant to this discussion. What do you think about all the sources already in the article, would you say they constitute a significant coverage or not? Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 00:34, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have now added a few new sources to the article and replaced some questionable ones. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 09:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete and/or Merge to Peter Phillips: Not notable for a stand alone article per Nom, that notability is not inherited, and other reasoning: See "Comments". Otr500 (talk)

Comments: User Pax:Vobiscum, that stated "...the coverage relates to a number of different events: "her wedding" (to Peter Phillips), "the birth of her kids" (from the marriage to Peter Phillips), "the conversion from Catholicism and her divorce" (related to Peter Phillips). She has made several public interviews, so she is not exactly avoiding public life.". The last sentence is covered extensively in Who is a low-profile individual?. Any notability of the subject is directly related to her marriage to Peter Phillips. "Low-profile" "is someone who has been covered in reliable sources without seeking such attention, often as part of their connection with a single event.". Neither are "titled", nor their children, they are not "working royals", and that does give credibility to WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE.

The opening sentence of the article states: "...is the wife of Peter Phillips...". The only thing likely to change in the future would be, "is the ex-wife of Peter Phillips". Any "appearances" with Peter, the grandson of the Queen, even if involving "public functions" the Queen is attending, would normally be as the wife of Peter in non-self-promotional functions.

The entire lead provides zero notability of the subject not connected with Peter Phillips. The entire article with 29 references provides no independent notability, certainly not in the lead or "Early life" sections, and the bulk of the article is found in the "Marriage to Peter Phillips" and "Children" sections. To fans of "including everything in the world on Wikipedia" (encyclopedic or possibly not) that is likely to be hard to understand. There are numerous sources that state the subject and her husband are considered "low-keyed" or maintaining a "low profile". It could be argued: "But they reportedly were interviewed and photographed by Hello! magazine, for an apparent fee of £500,000.": Please see Wikipedia:Who is a low-profile individual#Behavior pattern and activity level.

Sources need to "support a claim of notability" over just supporting content. When notability is called into question we cannot just assert there is notability. There are what looks like 9 links to The Daily Telegraph (counts as one towards notability), along with around 20 other references, and we still have an article captioned as "the wife of Peter Phillips". Regardless of any rhetoric, defending of the article, or The Daily Telegraph, that is what is presented, but may soon be the above mentioned "ex-wife of Peter Phillips".

I joined Wikipedia because I liked the idea of sharing knowledge freely with the world so I am not a fan of the The Daily Telegraph. Partly because they have already received compensation for what they want us to pay for again, but also because they do print tabloid type money making news stories. Unless consensus was to change the reliability of The Daily Telegraph is not questioned. That is not the point. A misconception is that several references do not automatically confer notability. This can be seen by a more common trend that comments such as "Keep, the article has plenty of reliable sources", are not generally counted as valid.

I would be so open to constructive comments providing independent notability (since I could not find any) that could be added to the lead (and referenced in the body), not related to Peter Phillips, the marriage or children, or the crown. I don't see that it exists. Without that, we are just supporting the creation of a pseudo biography that includes If the event itself is not notable enough for an article, and the person was noted only in connection with it, it's very likely that there is no reason to cover that person at all. This can be seen as an easy rebuttal of a presumption of notability. -- Otr500 (talk) 17:37, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously she is known because of her association with the British royal family. Is anyone associated with the Royal family notable? Absolutely not. How do we determine which are notable and which aren't? We see if there is significant coverage in reliable sources. WP:NOTINHERITED actually makes this exact point: "The fact of having a famous relative is not, in and of itself, sufficient to justify an independent article. Individuals in close, personal relationships with famous people (including politicians) can have an independent article even if they are known solely for such a relationship, but only if they pass WP:GNG." Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 19:46, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. Wonder if this might have gone already had I voted 'delete' rather than 'merge'. In any case, I am fully with Otr500 above. RobinCarmody (talk) 18:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep There was extensive, often front-page, coverage of her, back in the day. And it focused far more on her, than her husband. Some examples are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Easily and independently meets GNG. Nfitz (talk) 03:39, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - meets WP:GNG, a thank you to Nfitz for providing all of the links. Inter&anthro (talk) 17:10, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - agree with the 2 previous points above - its obvious to me. 175.33.49.35 (talk) 02:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Her renunciation of her Catholicism was much publicised and remains a discussion point in theological lectures at many tertiary institutions world-wide. 2001:8003:D857:6601:61BD:F7B7:C384:106 (talk) 00:14, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Meets GNG thank you to Nitz. Lightburst (talk) 04:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Nfitz and just as her being a part of the British royal family. I also want to point out that in WP:NOTINHERITED, which a few used as an argument for deletion, has one example about marriage -- and it's used to show as a reason not to use for deletion. It even goes on to say about not inherited: "Note, however, that this does not apply to situations where the fact of having a relationship to another person inherently defines a public position that is notable in its own right, such as a national First Lady." I personally think being a part of the British royal family does denote a public position, but I'm sure some might disagree. Either way, it's just an additional thought, since the new sources added pass WP:GNG. Whisperjanes (talk) 02:47, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies. Sandstein 12:01, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Grimbor the Chainsman[edit]

Grimbor the Chainsman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails to establish independent notability. TTN (talk) 16:08, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Merge somewhere. I don't see this character being notable. But bold merge instead of prodding and AFDing all the time (like I usually do) when I don't see notability usually equals a less disruptive outcome IMO. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 06:28, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or merge with either List of Legion of Super-Heroes enemies or List of minor DC Comics characters. --Rtkat3 (talk) 19:28, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Association of Czech Chemical Societies[edit]

Association of Czech Chemical Societies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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This doesn't meet WP:NOTABILITY. Boleyn (talk) 15:51, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. I did a BEFORE in Czech and all independent sources found were just citing the bulletin of this organization. No SIGCOV. buidhe 18:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I agree with the above, but perhaps the Czech Chemical Society is worth an article written by someone who knows about science in that country. --Bduke (talk) 02:31, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Gorkha National Liberation Front. Sandstein 12:01, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gorkha National Liberation Front (C.K. Pradhan)[edit]

Gorkha National Liberation Front (C.K. Pradhan) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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There are two sources in the article which are about Pradhan's death who is a district level politician and did not pass our notability criteria. Via google search it does not seem to me that the subject will pass WP:NORG and WP:GNG. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 15:02, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect and Merge to Gorkha National Liberation Front. For separatist movements and separatist political parties WP:ILLCON and WP:CRIME have relevance. The GNLF(C) is discussed in Barun Roy's Gorkhas and Gorkhaland. --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:40, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:01, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph M. LaRocca[edit]

Joseph M. LaRocca (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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The only sources I can find for this article are an obituary and a couple of passing refs in snippet view. It’s therefore not clear that the subject passes our notability threshold. Mccapra (talk) 03:25, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Weak delete Reads like an obituary and does not have enough sources. I wouldn't oppose if a better sourced version were to be created, but now I don't see how this article fits into an encyclopedia. Ambrosiawater (talk) 17:49, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 15:01, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Myndy Crist[edit]

Myndy Crist (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:NACTOR. Article hinges completely on their IMDB page and cursory google search doesn't show any mention of this subject outside of routine, typical coverage. Sulfurboy (talk) 16:10, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Not notable. I couldn't find anything that shows this article is notable. TheAwesomeHwyh 03:31, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep: I think the subject passes WP:NACTOR—she's played supporting roles in some big films, including Dark Skies (film) and Hanging Up, as well as dozens of guest spots in TV series and smaller roles in several other films. The argument for WP:GNG is a bit weaker, because most of the sources I am finding simply mention her with respect to her roles—but, there are quite a few sources, from Broadway World and Los Angeles Times, among others. The article itself needs some work, but I don't think deletion is necessary in this instance. Dflaw4 (talk) 04:56, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Her guest roles and smaller roles wouldn't come in to play with WP:NACTOR. I see she had supporting roles in those two films, but I'm not seeing evidence that her role in those movies were significant. Broadway World wouldn't be considered a reliable secondary source. And what La Times article are you referencing? The only two I see only mention the person in a WP:ROUTINE manner and wouldn't constitute the substantial coverage required by GNG. Sulfurboy (talk) 09:45, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Right, Sulfurboy, but they do show that the actress has a fairly large body of work, and there are a few more films in which she has had supporting roles, too. I generally consider supporting roles in notable films to be "significant". As for the Los Angeles Times articles, they do seem to be fairly routine, I agree: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2019-09-10/new-movies-opening-in-la-this-week-sept-15-22-brad-pitt-ad-astra-downton-abbey-Rambo; https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-thursdays-tv-highlights-working-the-engels-on-nbc-20140820-story.html. There are more substantial articles, too, although they come from less reliable sources. But, putting it all together, I think there is enough for a "Weak" Keep—certainly not a "Strong" Keep. Dflaw4 (talk) 09:40, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Seems to be a borderline keep. I agree with Dflaw4 that being a supporting actress in so many movies is an indication of notability. However, relatively little can be found about her in RS. My very best wishes (talk) 22:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Per Dflaw4. _SUPER ^ASTIG 03:48, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The only source is IMDb which is not reliable, we should not have articles with no reliable sources especially on living people.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:01, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I've now added text and sources to the article. Dflaw4 (talk) 15:39, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The coverage of her is minimal, so the article fails WP:GNG. It is not obvious that her supporting roles reaches the bar set by WP:ACTOR. I see that our article and imdb give different birth years (1971 vs 1975), so there is definitely also a question about our ability to write a verifiable article. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 20:30, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Had a starring role in a TV series Breaking news with Tim Matheson and Clancy Brown. Кирилл С1 (talk) 12:08, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian Bearings[edit]

Canadian Bearings (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Ncorp fail. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:26, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete per nom. Fails WP:NCORP. D4iNa4 (talk) 08:34, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Searches are finding routine distribution announcement coverage but not substantial coverage about the firm itself. There is some book coverage of a legal case involving the company which went to the Supreme Court of Canada (e.g. [22]) but if that is itself notable it would be appropriate to a case page rather than providing notability to one of the parties. Fails WP:NCORP. AllyD (talk) 08:56, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:04, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Super Nova Card Game[edit]

Super Nova Card Game (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Lacks the required notability. One review in "Arcane". The other source is an exhaustive catalog of all collectible card games ("the first book to catalog every collectible card game ever released"), which is good for verification but not for notability. This game has received extremely little attention after its release[23], and I couldn't find any other books or good sources about it. No obvious redirect target (e.g. no article for the company), so "delete" it is. Fram (talk) 08:52, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep Although obscure today, the game's development and upcoming release were published in Dragon. That plus the Arcane review would suggest notability. Guinness323 (talk) 17:32, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Dragon bit is all of two sentences though, they're "working on a new collectibe card game" which "will be released this summer". Have they actually reviewed the game once it was released? Fram (talk) 19:06, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I don’t see how it meets the WP:GNG. Sergecross73 msg me 01:37, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - per nom. KartikeyaS (talk) 15:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete A single review and two passing mentions does not constitute significant coverage. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 08:15, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui ^雲_水 13:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bapunagar Darpan[edit]

Bapunagar Darpan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:NNEWSPAPER. Founded in 2019, a newly published local neighbourhood newspaper. No references found. Current references are Facebook and youtube link. PROD reverted so discussion posted. Nizil (talk) 11:18, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Fails WP:NMEDIA and WP:GNG.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 11:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete None of the sourcing is reliable or independent. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMEDIA. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:50, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article is about the local news paper situated in [Bapunagar] and it does have reach to the various regions in [Ahmedabad], This article should not be deleted as it is going to be expanded in future.-Hamza Ghanchi 04:38, 2 March 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by હમઝા ઘાંચી (talk • contribs)

"It's going to be expanded in the future" is not a reason for keeping the article. The only way it will be saved from deletion is by providing references from independent, reliable sources (not Youtube, not Facebook, not a registry proving that about the subject simply Bapunagar Darpan, not a user generated business profile) covering the subject. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:03, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui ^雲_水 13:52, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apoorva Singh Chaudhary[edit]

Apoorva Singh Chaudhary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. The actress has never acted in any films and has only appeared in few television reality shows. The content has also been written in advertising manner. Abishe (talk) 10:26, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete Via Google it seems the person appeared in some minor roles. The article fails WP:ANYBIO, WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 15:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: per Nom and that the article is a pseudo biography. Otr500 (talk) 17:06, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: The subject might pass WP:GNG but she doesn't meet WP:NACTOR. I think it's far WP:TOOSOON for an article on her. Dflaw4 (talk) 03:47, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Update: On second thoughts, I don't think WP:GNG is met either—unless India West and TellyChakkar are considered reliable sources (the latter, at least, doesn't seem to be). Dflaw4 (talk) 13:59, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Haven't done any notable work. Not meeting WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. - The9Man | (talk) 12:46, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. There seems to be consensus to keep this article per WP:NOLY. The general argument for deletion was that WP:OLY only offered a presumption of notability. However, it is worth noting that WP:GNG also uses the word presumed, and that the ultimate standard of notability is consensus in a deletion discussion. Special notability guidelines exist to complement the GNG in fields where coverage may be more sparse. (non-admin closure) ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 19:24, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar Blansaer[edit]

Oscar Blansaer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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A total lack of WP:RS giving significant attention to this person. There are a few databases and results listings,but nothing that would come close to meeting WP:GNG. Meets WP:NOLY as an Olympian, but this only gives a presumed notability which, when challenged (as here), needs to be substantiated to show that the person indeed at least meets the GNG. Just like with many athletes who competed in the early Olympics, which received a lot less attention, this is not possible with currently available sources. A single listing in Google Books[24], and nothing substantial in the 48 Google hits. Fram (talk) 10:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep per WP:NOLY. A couple of recent similar discussions for Olympians at AfD can be found here and here. Both were kept. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • One closed as no consensus, and the other is not comparable as the athlete had many more accomplishments, and finding sources for a North Korean was considered harder than usual. At the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Change to WP:NOLY, most commenters agree that WP:NOLY indicates presumed notability, but that in the end (e.g. when challenged at AfD) the subject must meet the general WP:GNG rule of multiple indepth sources, not just some database listings or mentions in sports results. Fram (talk) 10:32, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. SNGs are useful rule of thumb, but not carte blanche to create an article based only on database entries. Athletes such as Blansaer should be listed at List of competitors at the 1920 Summer Olympics or similar. buidhe 03:17, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. A perfunctory Google search is nowhere near sufficient to overcome presumption of notability here. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:40, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Meets our notability guidelines. Besides, just because Google doesn't give you enough hits, doesn't mean there no further information on the person. I am pretty sure our Belgian Wikipedians could help find some real, printed, sources.--Darwinek (talk) 18:35, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am a Belgian Wikipedian, I can read the sources in Dutch (and French, German and English). They are sorely lacking for this athlete though. Fram (talk) 05:27, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Going to basically copy and paste my response from the other AfD: WP:NOLYMPICS doesn't exist because someone decided out of nowhere that all Olympians are notable or to override general notability guidelines. With arguably the exception of the earliest editions, but certainly by 1920, people who attended the Olympics were not just picked out of a hat, they were elite athletes at the national level. In 2020 on Google, yes, the only thing that is readily available is that he participated in one event at the Games, but the fact that he was there in the first place suggests that he had at least some success in his home country, which is probably difficult to find information about unless you have access to Belgian publications from the 1910s and 1920s. WP:NOLYMPICS exists, therefore, because consensus determined that if the individual was at the Games, there is a significant likelihood that sufficient sources for a biography exist that may just be difficult to access. My work is on pre-1952 Egyptian athletes, and information beyond their Olympic appearance is difficult to find in Arabic online, let alone in English. But I happen to have access to newspapers and sports journals from that era and there is plenty of coverage on all of them that would satisfy WP:N with ease. For a country like Belgium, which at the time had a better-developed press and sporting infrastructure, there must exist coverage of all of their Olympians that would easily satisfy WP:N, I just can't access it (or at least read it). WP:NOLYMPICS represents that consensus that these sources likely exist for all Olympians, even if we cannot find them, and so we can avoid discussions such as this and presume notability unless there is convincing evidence otherwise. Canadian Paul 06:46, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "presume notability unless there is convincing evidence otherwise. " One cannot prove such a negative. This is why the burden is always on those claiming that something is notable: they have to produce the evidence for it, not just claim that it exists and demand that others have to show (how?) that it doesn't. Fram (talk) 09:37, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • No. WP:BURDEN relates to verifiability, not notability. SNGs create presumption of notability which means that the burden is one those arguing for non-notability to demonstrate that. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 21:41, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The over application of the olympic notability guidelines has become absurd. The source here in no way shows notability, and no one has identified any other source that does so or not. The SNG were supposed to suggest what cases it is worth looking deeply for sources, they are not supposed to force inclusion of articles in the total absence of sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:11, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Obviously POINT-y nomination. This has been litigated to death. Olympians are notable. Period. If you don't like it, get consensus to change the guideline, don't disrupt Wikipedia to prove a point. Smartyllama (talk) 23:39, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Per WP:NOLY. Because the subject competed a very long time ago, it's important to avoid a recency bias. KaisaL (talk) 08:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Tone 22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vector Capital[edit]

Vector Capital (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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While the article appears well referenced at a glance, I am afraid there is next to no evidence of it passing WP:GNG/WP:NCOMPANY. All sources are either mentions in passing, or rewritten press releases (Businesswire...) about routine operations. Please note that even WSJ or NYT tend to reprint such press releases, for example [25] links a press release near the bottom. If we remove press release and worse (PRIMARY/in-passing) there would be ZERO sources here. This is just a run-of-the-mill promotional WP:YELLOWPAGES entry. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:31, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - run of the mill venture capital firm, which are not automatically notable, even if they have famous clients or investments. Throwing around cash does not make one notable. Bearian (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Yunshui ^雲_水 13:52, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MiG Arogan[edit]

MiG Arogan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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can't find any sources to verify the billboard claim, no other coverage and pretty much everything here is primary or unreliable. Praxidicae (talk) 16:26, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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I think it is important to have voices from the Caribbean and from the hip hop communities help judge what is notable source material and what is unreliable. None of the citations are primary. I hesitate to delete articles like this when there are so many other articles by musicians at similar stages in career with similar, but English, sources not being flagged.--Heathart (talk) 20:16, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Praxidicae. I am not finding reliable sources, and if the sources don't exist to write a good article, it shouldn't exist regardless of how much we like the article topic. buidhe 14:56, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete a non-notable rapper.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per Johnpacklambert and for want of significant coverage in reliable sources. The sources might not be primary, but neither are they reliable. In 2020, everybody knows we are a charity whose mission is to write about notable people, places, things, and ideas, not a free web-host to lift up people. It's longstanding practice for the whole community, not just experts, to decide on notability. For what it's worth, I am a member of the executive committee of the Entertainment, Arts, and Sports Law section of the New York State Bar Association, I live in New York City, and have edited many articles on outsider artists who are nonetheless notable musicians. Bearian (talk) 14:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am not sure that "everyone" knows what the purpose of Wikipedia is. There is such a long history of inprint items that look at some level and claim on some level to be encyclopedic but allowed people to pay to be included (such as Who's Who), so there may be some expectation that Wikipedia can be gamed as well. We also have articles that have existed for over 14 years that are actually just campaign brochures for candidates who were never elected, so it is still easy for people to get the wrong impression which is why we have to try harder to remove articles that do not fit our guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:41, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Tone 22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neonfly[edit]

Neonfly (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Zero evidence of notability, seems like a vanity page. Google doesn't show any news or other RS on/about them at all. —moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 14:30, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Weak keep as found an album review here at Metal Storm which is a WikiProject Music reliable source but more is needed, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 23:12, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep changing to full keep as have found some extra reliable sources coverage here,here,here,here,here which also shows that they have been on multiple international tours across Europe so have a claim to pass criteria 4 of WP:NMUSIC (only one criteria needed), imv Atlantic306 (talk) 18:44, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Although the article suffers from bad sourcing, I see enough to pass GNG. Govvy (talk) 20:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. KaisaL (talk) 16:02, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gérald Bertheloot[edit]

Gérald Bertheloot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Meets WP:NOLY as an Olympian, but fails WP:GNG as there are no significant, indepth sources about him (and meeting GNG is a requirement under NOLY as well, just being an Olympian is an indication of possible notability, but not a default pass). Note that the article (based on a database source) even gets his name wrong, he was Gerard Bertheloot, not "Gérald". All I was able to find was some local stuff from his city Kortrijk, and one picture in an old local newspaper.

Contrary to current competitors at the Olympic, many competitors at the early games (pre-1940 roughly) are barely documented or remembered, and got little attention at the time either. This is one of those who is barely something beyond a name in a database, and thus not fit to be the subject of an enwiki article. Fram (talk) 09:47, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep Competed at the Olympics, so meets WP:NOLY. A couple of recent similar discussions for Olympians at AfD can be found here and here. Both were kept. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:48, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • As the current discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Change to WP:NOLY makes clear, meeting WP:NOLY gives someone a presumed notability, which has to be demonstrated when challenged. You are simply restating the presumption, without any evidence. The first Afd closed as "no consensus", hardly an overwhelming reason to keep this one. The second is about someone with a much larger palmares, and where there is trouble accessing sources (at least more trouble than with sources for Western athletes). Fram (talk) 10:02, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That discussion is neither clear or indeed current. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:16, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion started on 31 January 2020, not archived, is not "current"? Fram (talk) 10:28, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's had no input for the best part of a month. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:34, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And (Personal attack removed) has rather predictably just commented, therefore extending the time until archival for another 30 days. Seriously, this is all getting quite disruptive and a huge waste of time. Might be time to escalate things if it continues. Smartyllama (talk) 23:43, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I respect that Lugnuts has put in a lot of time here to create articles on Olympians. If you Google search them and find multiple sources which can be used to expand them, great. But when you search and literally find nothing but the database mentioning one Olympic appearance, how do we expand ones like this? I think in cases where they'll only ever remain database stubs we should redirect into lists like List of competitors at the 1928 Summer Olympics. When creating the stubs I would check to see if there are further sources available for later expansion, if not then perhaps consider merging into a list which gives birth and place of birth dates of each competitor. I think this a wider issue, not just one off Olympians but villages (even a lot of ones I created), moths etc which currently only have stark database mentions. At the end of the day we want to write an encyclopedia and if there's nothing which can be used to even write a 1 kb stub we should consider a way to convey the same info in lists without readers having to search through hundreds of pages...♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:30, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep After the last two failed AfDs, the proper place for this discussion is the policy page, not individual articles, and the discussion linked above does not seem to have led to anything clear at all. I'm going to essentially copy and paste what I wrote the last time: WP:NOLYMPICS doesn't exist because someone decided out of nowhere that all Olympians are notable or to override general notability guidelines. With arguably the exception of the earliest editions, but certainly by 1928, people who attended the Olympics were not just picked out of a hat, they were elite athletes at the national level. In 2020 in English, yes, the only thing that is readily available is that he participated in one event at the Games, but the fact that he was there in the first place suggests that he had at least some success in his home country, which is probably difficult to find information about unless you have access to Belgian publications from the 1920s. WP:NOLYMPICS exists, therefore, because consensus determined that if the individual was at the Games, there is a significant likelihood that sufficient sources for a biography exist that may just be difficult to access. My work is on pre-1952 Egyptian athletes, and information beyond their Olympic appearance is difficult to find in Arabic online, let alone in English. But I happen to have access to newspapers and sports journals from that era and there is plenty of coverage on all of them that would satisfy WP:N with ease. For a country like Belgium, which at the time had a better-developed press and sporting infrastructure, there must exist coverage of all of their Olympians that would easily satisfy WP:N, I just can't access it (or at least read it). WP:NOLYMPICS represents that consensus that these sources likely exist for all Olympians, even if we cannot find them, and so we can avoid discussions such as this and presume notability unless there is convincing evidence otherwise. Canadian Paul 17:57, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Canadian Paul.--Darwinek (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete There are no indepth sources. The assumption that every olympian ever is notable is wrongheaded and wrong and leads to a huge number of worthless articles like this one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per all the arguments made every time one of these comes up. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 21:42, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy Keep Disruptive, POINT-y nomination. Only delete !vote other than nom is a notorious troll deletionist. Speedy keep, close, and don't waste any more of our time that could be spent improving articles rather than piling on here. Smartyllama (talk) 23:41, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Calling someone a "notorious troll" is very, very insulting. I have made over 350,000 edits on Wikipedia, created well over 1000 articles, and sought to improve the encyclopedia in coutless ways. Under sourced participation at the olympics should not be used to force micro stubs. The abuse that people who stand up to the tyranny of the Wikipedia establishment get is unconscionable. This is why Wikipedia remains a presentist, overly covering males project that attracts mainly males as contributors, because the existing values are fought for to the point of anyone who tries to change them gets harrassed, insulted and oppressed. Calling someone a troll is unacepptable and wrong.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:14, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Striking personal attack and replacing it with a more neutral term. The main point stands - this isn't going to be deleted and it's best not to waste any more time on this. Smartyllama (talk) 01:44, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• The arguments made here clearly mininterpret the actual notability guidelines for olympic competitots. Presumed notability does not overpower GNG in this case, only suggests we should search long and hard to show passing of GNG. Here searching was done long and hard, but not enough sourcing was produced but people are ignoring this reality to advocate for the article anyway.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:20, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the way that GNG and WP:N are written presumed notability DOES overpower GNG - it says one or the other. Perhaps this should be discussed elsewhere. Nfitz (talk) 16:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Meets WP:ATH. The question of should the standards be so open should be discussed elsewhere. Nfitz (talk) 16:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete – We can't write a biography without in-depth (read: GNG) sources. Meeting an ATH SNG, alone, isn't a reason to keep. NOTDIR is the policy that governs here: we are not a directory of Olympic athletes. Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 19:32, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. We should not be trying to create articles without secondary sources to speak of; per WP:NOTDIR which trumps notability guidelines. SNGs that recommend the creation of such unsuitable articles should be revised. NB, calling a good faith editor "notorious troll" is completely unacceptable. buidhe 04:35, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. A google search is woefully inadequate in assessing notability for someone like Bertheloot. Likewise, databases such as Newspapers.com are also insufficient because they do not include sources from the non-English speaking world. It seems prudent (perhaps essential) to check French and Belgian sources from the late 1920s and early 1930s to see what type of coverage Bertheloot actually received. Barring negative results from such a search, and in the case of a pre-Internet subject most likely to be covered in the non-English-speaking world, I do not think that there is a sound basis for rebutting the presumption of notability that flows from WP:NOLYMPICS.  Cbl62 (talk) 04:50, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

States the guy who's written thousands of "useless substubs". Don't worry, I'll arrange for everyone to help clean up my mess after me, but hide it in the guise of a destubathon. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 18:47, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But that was like ten years ago and he's since stopped making them. Others not so much. Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 18:54, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comparing articles about locations with articles about people is apples and oranges. People are a special case. Species and lakes don't mind as much when their articles get vandalized. Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 20:27, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dead people such as the person in question generally don’t care either. Smartyllama (talk) 19:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But their living relatives and friends might. Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 19:48, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And someone might be upset if their hometown or favorite animal article is vandalized. I’d be very upset if someone vandalized the llama article with an anti-llama rant. That’s all irrelevant. We have tools to fight vandalism if need be. AfD is not one of them. Smartyllama (talk) 19:52, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I think WP:ATH is met here. Not surprising there isn't a ton on the internet, but there probably is some more in print sources. We do have this image FWIW. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 14:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per WP:NEXIST, which says that if reliable sources exist, then the subject is notable. Dr. Blofeld's point that "we can't currently access them and are unlikely to for a Very long time if ever" isn't relevant; offline and hard-to-reach sources still exist, even if an individual editor can't access them. Likewise, WP:ARTN says that the current state of the article doesn't affect the subject's notability. Personally, I agree that this article is not interesting and won't win any awards, but I disagree that it makes the website crap. The website is fine. -- Toughpigs (talk) 23:39, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• • However, once an article's notability has been challenged, merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive, especially if time passes and actual proof does not surface. – WP:NEXIST Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 00:10, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Nominator acknowledges that the subject competed in the Olympics, so the subject meets WP:NOLY. What else? As it is the subject passes the SNG. Those who appear in the Olympics are notable. In addition to SNG - not that it is needed but WP:NEXIST as other editors have stated. Lightburst (talk) 02:35, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Competing in the Olympics makes you notable based on common sense. Not sure why this keeps coming up since these articles always get kept don't they? The Notability guidelines all have a disclaimer saying "It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply." See that last part? And despite some desperately trying to ignore the subject specific guidelines, WP:NOTABILITY clearly states "A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right". So either common sense or the subject specific guideline for this sort of thing, proves the subject is notable enough for an article on Wikipedia. Dream Focus 03:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per WP:NEXIST, which says that if reliable sources exist, then the subject is notable. I agree with the reasoning of Toughpigs. the subject meets WP:NOLY. For sure, sources are out there, but they are antiquated and not on the internet. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:44, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep OK, the minimum standard I expect is now there, I got it to 719 bytes of readable prose and 124 words. Please try to expand these stubs a bit so they actually half resemble encyclopedia articles, thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:30, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per WP:NOLY, and WP:NEXIST.KartikeyaS (talk) 16:01, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. consensus is that the subject is notable (non-admin closure) Smartyllama (talk) 13:05, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

P. B. M. Basaiawmoit[edit]

P. B. M. Basaiawmoit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)

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Fails WP:NPOL as this politician lost once, and never won any major election. Only passing mentions / comments and news of contesting election are not WP:SIGCOV either. DBigXrayᗙ 14:40, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep, personality in public spotlight for decades. He was the runner-up for the Shillong parliamentary seat in 2014, obtaining 168,961 votes. He was the dominant candidate in 11 out of 25 several assembly constituencies in the state, (https://meghalayatimes.info/tsunami-modi-sweeps-nation-congress-demolished/). In addition to the references in the articles, there are as well as a number of descriptions of the person as "a prominent church leader and activist" (Khasi and Jaintia Hills, https://www.telegraphindia.com/states/north-east/meghalaya-hopes-for-mine-rescue/cid/1680286), "KJEPC convener P B M Basaiawmoit" (http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/content/23985/tribals-oppose-uranium-mining/), "P.B.M. Basaiawmoit, a Presbyterian Church member and former vice-president of the National Council of Churches in India" (https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/2018/03/good-friday-holiday-reinstated-in-christian-majority-indian-state-after-protests/), etc, without mentioning the references in local languages. Notably, the article was featured on mainpage of Wikipedia in T:DYK. --Soman (talk) 14:56, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Considering the number of votes polled in that constituency was 6,19,987 votes, it is not unusual that he still lost. Anyway the primary concern per WP:NPOL is the lack of electoral success and article covering the subject in significant detail (despite being in politics for decades). The sources linked above are passing mentions/ comments in article covering other topics, and not meeting WP:GNG of this person. Also T:DYK is not a notability criteria.DBigXrayᗙ 15:10, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete fails WP:NPOL and the coverage does not indicate a WP:GNG pass. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:51, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep simple Google search produces repeated appearances in the Indian English-language press over 10+ years, seems to be a notable North-Eastern activist, Christian religious leader, was Vice-President of the Indian affiliate of the World Council of Churches. Meets GNG. Subject occupies multiple categories, rigid categorisation for deletion purposes via NPOL is inappropriate. --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:42, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep due to the article's DYK status. If one were to delete it, one should first go through the list of editors active on DYK and alert them first to this deletion notice. Until that is done, it is not really fair for AfD to infringe on DYK's turf by deleting the article. If you delete it, someone could claim that makes this corner of the website supreme. This has never been decided yet.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 01:37, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]