The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete the main article and no consensus regarding the second article. MBisanz ^talk 02:06, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Joakim Mogren

Joakim Mogren (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This is a viral hoax/promotional gimmick/publicity stunt to garner attention for the next Metal Gear game. Joakim = Kojima; Mogren = Project "Ogre". See: this, this, and this. Forbes lays it out rather well here. Wikipedia is not the place for advertising or presenting hoaxes. Cindy(talk to me) 19:38, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• I am also nominating the following related pages because it is additionally a hoax, created to perpetuate the hoax within the Joakim Mogren article. As Forbes states, "The Phantom Pain is Kojima's viral teaser for Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes".:

The Phantom Pain (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Comment - With all due respect, I believe we should give him and the company the benefit of the doubt, there is no evidence to support that this is indeed a hoax; it is all coincidental. lb8068 (talk) 19:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)— Lb8068 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • That may or may not be true but it's ultimately irrelevant. We're not here to prove that this is/isn't a hoax. This discussion is to assess notability and I haven't seen a single argument that supports that the subject of this article is notable per WP:N. OlYeller21^Talktome 22:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Why must people grasp straws at everything being a hoax? Kotaku and VG247 have no concrete proof to their claims; and I happened to contact the site owner. He is indeed swedish and has provided me a copy of the birth certificate. Get over yourself — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.27.133.229 (talk) 20:03, 9 December 2012 (UTC) — 108.27.133.229 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • It doesn't matter. There's no proof that this is a real person, let alone a notable per per WP:BIO. OlYeller21^Talktome 22:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• The article Joakim Mogren definitely qualifies for speedy delete even if the article wasn't an awful non-factual unencyclopedic mess, due to the person not being notable yet. I note however that the nominator also put the AFD template on the article for the game, The Phantom Pain (video game). I consider this to be a bad faith nomination based on the content of the Joakim Mogren article, especially as the game's article isn't even mentioned in the nomination, but has apparently been lumped in the AFD for some reason. The game itself is definitely real, and its article is being properly sourced with factual information and should be kept. --Ifrit (Talk) 20:10, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Before assuming bad faith, you should actually review the links I provided above, specifically the one from Forbes. Note that the rationale is provided in the bundle. Bad form, Ifrit. Cindy(talk to me) 20:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: I assumed bad faith mostly because of the coenciding vandalism of Joakim Mogren. But still, the Forbes.com article saying The Phantom Pain being a viral campaign for Ground Zeroes is just their speculation. In fact, Geoff Keighley, who was involved in the production of the Spike VGAs, stated the complete opposite; that The Phantom Pain is its own game, not previously revealed. Edit: Here's a link.--Ifrit (Talk) 20:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment. Actually, Forbes states, "The Phantom Pain isn’t an upcoming game at all — it’s an elaborate teaser for Kojima’s Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes." As far as the link to Twitter? Uh, "Phantom Pain is an a completely game"... uh, hunh? Your statement above is not an accurate reflection of the tweet posted. Cindy(talk to me) 21:17, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment: It is quite clear what the meaning of Keighley's tweet was despite the typo, and the only source you have for the The Phantom Pain trailer only being viral marketing for Ground Zeroes even states that this is only the hunch of the writer. Until your claim is proven The Phantom Pain should be treated as a separate game, thus it should not be included in this AfD.
• No, it does not. It states, "But The Phantom Pain isn’t an upcoming game at all — it’s an elaborate teaser for Kojima’s Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes. For now it’s obviously a hunch..." ^[1] If anyone's being speculative, it's you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.231.206.6 (talk • contribs)
• Merge and Redirect to Hideo Kojima - The subject of this article fails WP:BIO as none of the news sources listed in the article or that I can find represent significant coverage of the subject. The subject of this article is only mentioned with the unknown/also-made-up Moby Dick Studios. More importantly, this reliable source speculates that "Joakim Mogren" is a name being used by Hideo Kojima (Joakim is an anagram of Kojim and Mogren contains "ogre" and "Project Ogre" is a semi-secret project that Kojima is working on). Regardless of whether or not you think this is a hoax, there is no evidence that this subject satisfies any part of WP:N, particularly WP:BIO. At the end of this AfD, this article should be deleted or redirected to Kojima. OlYeller21^Talktome 21:21, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note - I didn't see the game nomination. I agree with Mr. Mittens that the game article should be Kept. It should be merged into the appropriate Metal Gear Solid article, when/if it becomes clear that the game is connected. I still stand by deleting the Joakim article or merging and redirecting it to Hideo Kojima if we can be sure that it's really a representation of Kojima. Since I have lots of "ifs" in my !vote, I'll just say that unless new evidence is presented by the end of this AfD, the Joakim article should be deleted and the game article should be kept. OlYeller21^Talktome 22:44, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 December 9. Snotbot  t • c »  21:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete hoax or not, notability is not established (image is pretty clearly fake, though). Hairhorn (talk) 21:55, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete . No plausible claims of significance or importance. No substantial reliable, independent, 3rd party sources. Fails WP:BIO. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:02, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete bio page, keep the game article. The video game is covered by Joystiq, Game Informer, IGN, Game Revolution, VideoGamer, Edge, Kotaku, 4Gamer, Famitsu, Siliconera, Shacknews, GamesRadar, VG247, and Eurogamer. --Odie5533 (talk) 00:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge w/ related page(s) (Hideo Kojima and/or Metal Gear)GreenRunner0 03:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. It's not really a secret that this is supposed to be tied to MGS. There's no evidence that Joakim Mogrem is a real person outside of the Moby Dick website. We should keep the article for The Phantom Pain, at least until more tangible connections to Metal Gear emerge. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 22:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete the article at Joakim Mogren; even if it's not a hoax, it would fail WP:BIO at this time. The only evidence that the person exists are primary sources and do not meet the threshold of notability. However, keep The Phantom Pain (video game) at this time; it appears well documented via multiple sources that it exists; any linking of it to being viral advertising is original research at this point. There are several reporters questioning if it's real, but no confirmation one way or the other from any reliable sources. If it later turns out to be part of an advertising campaign, it can be merged into the real product's article at a later time. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 23:32, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Create a page for Moby Dick Studio and Merge. While the CEO might not qualify for notability standards, an article on the company itself with a subsection on the CEO has a viable claim at notability. --Deuxhero (talk) 22:33, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete for above reasons. We also don't know if Moby Dick Studios is a real studio. The1337gamer (talk) 10:51, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While looking very likely, it being a hoax is still just speculation. Doesn't WP:BALL apply? --Deuxhero (talk) 03:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.