The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:52, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jamey Harrow[edit]

Jamey Harrow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Article about an audio engineer who is claiming credit for the success of music he claims to have worked on. Article seems to be written by his employer or a representative. Article was declined at AfC because no proof was provided linking Harrow to the awards and no reliable in-depth coverage about him. There is not enough verifiable biographical information to warrant an article about Harrow and no clear evidence that he, himself, is award winning (or notable). Sionk (talk) 12:29, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Might be notable if he won a Juno for mastering if there were one (Juno_Award#Award_categories lists one for Recording Engineer, but not for Mastering... are they the same thing?) but can't tell from the article. The cited refs are mostly useless. For example, the cited ref for him having mastered a Juno winning album in 2012 does not list his name anywhere, and the album does not appear in his discography. Even if it did list him, having mastered a Juno winning album is not notable of itself, or we would also be able to justify articles on the recording engineer, cover artist, etc. Fails WP:Notable and WP:Verifiable. And what's with the AfC? Sionk says it failed, but TheRealCrews created the article with an edit summary saying that it was accepted. Meters (talk) 19:57, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The Juno Awards folks have a database of all awards that have been given, and a search for "Jamey Harrow" turns up nothing. I'm finding no significant treatment in secondary sources, so the article appears to fail WP:BIO. Deor (talk) 20:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Notability is not inherited, so even if any album won an award this would be credited to the artists first of all. De728631 (talk) 21:05, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. All credits are listed on album covers linking him to working on all projects listed online sources were also provided linking him to the projects listed. Sources were not properly checked by reviewer, there is clear evidence that he is award winning, for example the sources that directly say he is award winning or that have him listed as an engineer on a major award nominated or winning product. --TheRealCrews (talk) 19:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• note that primary sourced credits on albums covers is not "significant coverage in reliable third party sources" -- The Red Pen of Doom 22:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Due to the reasons stated above Bernie Grundman, Charles Reeves, Jay Messina, John Sellekaers, Ted Jensen etc. must also all be deleted --TheRealCrews (talk) 21:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant. See WP:OTHERSTUFF Meters (talk) 21:38, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Engineers are always credited with album awards statements from De728631 (talk) and Meters (talk) are both false. Also multiple nominations at the Western Canadian Music Awards are considered notable. --ThunderousMastering (talk) 22:06, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Note ThunderousMastering is the original author of the article and possible WP:SOCK of co-author TheRealCrews Sionk (talk) 22:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Note Sionk (talk) Nominated this page for deletion after being asked not to edit the page due to a lack of understanding of the subject and multiple acts of vandalism on the page in question and author talk pages. As well as the users talk page being full of complaints about his reviewing tactics. --TheRealCrews (talk) 22:51, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• So what? You don't own the article page, and any Wikipedia editor is free to nominate an article for nomination provided they have a reasonable reason for nomination. Note that only you and your sockpuppet/meatpuppet are saying the article should not be deleted. Please read WP:AGF. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 22:54, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm also the only one with valid arguments that don't contradict themselves and maintaining Wikipedia's Civility guideline and doing my best to show respect despite not being shown any. --TheRealCrews (talk) 23:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as not having in-depth coverage in independent third party sources, as required by WP:GNG. Feel free to ping my talk page if such sources are added to the article. Stuartyeates (talk) 23:31, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am absolutely baffled by this, these are the most ridiculous arguments for deletion. "he doesn't get credit for an award that was won by an album he has a credit for working on and therefore also received the award" yes and a movie director didn't act in the movie so he doesn't deserve a credit. "no in depth coverage on him" every article, an album he worked on is the only subject talked about. "Physical sources like credits on album covers are not valid" yes and the dictionary is an invalid source for spelling. "sources are not valid" Band sites, music profiles, official sites, award listings there are no sources on any article on wikipedia that are more valid than the ones provided. Not one single reviewer has even suggest a way to improve the article I'm honestly embarrassed by this site after speaking with you people. --TheRealCrews (talk) 00:21, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The reviewers are 100% wrong but this isn't worth the headache. --ThunderousMastering (talk) 00:59, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - to meet WP:GNG we need "significant coverage" of the subject, not the subject's work. He doesn't inherit notability from his products (please see WP:INHERIT). For a start, he's not even mentioned in four of the inline "sources" provided - so those sources aren't even sufficient to verify that he worked on those albums. The last is his own self published website which can not be considered a reliable source. The non-inline "sources" are simply one-off mentions of the subject - they do not constitute "significant coverage" in any way, shape or form and so cannot be considered against the criteria of WP:GNG. Cheers, Stalwart111 (talk) 03:55, 25 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

P.S. You might like to have a read of, "Wikipedia:An article about yourself is nothing to be proud of", as well as WP:SOC, WP:COI and WP:CORPNAME. Cheers, Stalwart111 (talk) 03:55, 25 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Thank you all for your time but you may as well delete the article, the reviewers here have proven that they have no credibility. I'm allowed to be harassed and insulted but when I point it out I'm told I need to practice AFG. The references did not get checked or get ignored all together when they prove the reviewers wrong. No one seems to want to help at all so again thank you all for your time but there is nothing more that can be done --TheRealCrews (talk) 07:15, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per failure of WP:GNG. --Nouniquenames 16:54, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - fails all our tests of notability. I too suspect that TheRealCrews=ThunderousMastering=Jamey Harrow. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:55, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • EVIDENCE http://www.thunderousmastering.com/aboutus.php is Jamey Harrow. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:58, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has been mentioned that I can request that the article can be moved to my user account, how do I go about doing this?--TheRealCrews (talk) 01:06, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You can't. Following Orange Mike's information above, I checkusered User:ThunderousMastering and guess what. It's you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Not saying he is notable, but people do get notability from the work they do. Singers from their singing, painters from their painting, authors from their writing, scientists from their discoveries. What on earth else would a person be notable for besides what they accomplish, except for those extremely few individuals born to hereditary monarchies. NOT INHERITED means just the opposite--it means that because an artist is notable, not all the creative work they do is notable also-- this is true for the actually famous artists , but not those merely notable. Inheritance runs downwards. The question is whether being the engineer on an album, though important, is sufficiently important a role for this, and in general we have held not, unless they have done so much important work as to receive significant awards or the like. DGG ( talk ) 01:34, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• An "assistant to Miss Davis" on All About Eve does not automatically become notable because her name appears on the credits of an award winning film. The specific work that the person contributed to the project has to have been noted/awarded TO THEM. -- The Red Pen of Doom 12:12, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Article seems to be claiming that the subject was awarded a Juno Award for mastering, which would be notable (as opposed to simply having mastered a Juno Award winning recording), but we have not been able to verify this ourselves. No evidence has been provided despite several requests. Time to put this one down. Meters (talk) 15:49, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.