The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Spartaz ^Humbug! 19:56, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hyung Jin Moon[edit]

His notability has been questioned. I personally feel that he is an important person, however others have said that he is only notable because of his relationship to his father Sun Myung Moon. I am not unbiased since I am a member of their church so I am bringing the question here. Steve Dufour (talk) 08:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge (to True Family) or delete: fails both WP:BIO and WP:GNG. Virtually no reliably-sourced coverage. Sun Myung Moon routinely appoints people, particularly his children, to nominally senior positions within the Unification Church, that bestow no observable power or influence (one, Hyo Jin Moon, still doesn't appear to have been replaced in his position over a year after his death). "Despite last week's apparent transfer of power few expect Moon Sr, who was convicted in the US of tax evasion in 1982, to loosen his grip on power. 'He may have appointed his son, but Moon is constantly giving orders, and people do as they tell him,' a former member told the Guardian. 'He is unlikely to transfer any actual power to his sons.'"[1] Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 09:06, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anyone ever said that Hyung Jin is important because he has "power", or that "power" would or should be transfered from his father to him. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:12, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

His sole claim to notability would appear to be his position within the UC. If that position carries no real authority, then the claim carries no real notability. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 15:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Sun Myung Moon himself is only important because some people (a million or so but still a distinct minority in a world of 6 billion) believe him to be the Second coming of Christ. He has no "power" to tell people what to do. (So the Guardian's focus on "power", used 3 times in that short quote, is kind of a red herring.) Steve Dufour (talk) 16:01, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And that 'belief' gives him "power" over them. They appear to have no belief of similar magnitude about Hyung Jin, which means he lacks any similar power. Earthly "power" may not have theological significance, but it is what the media writes about, so it is one of the things that makes a topic notable. It is not a "red herring" but simply a difference between what the media, and thus wikipedia, focuses upon, versus what church insiders consider to be significant. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 16:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad The Guardian is not in charge of telling Wikipedia what is and is not notable. :-) Steve Dufour (talk) 09:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is however our most substantive reliable source on the subject -- and its assessment meshes with the lack of observable impact that Sun Myung Moon's other senior appointees have had in their roles. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 09:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep He was the subject of two newspaper stories in different countries, so he passes WP's standards of notability. The article itself could be better but maybe more sources will be found. Northwestgnome (talk) 16:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Goodness this is not even CLOSE to being notable and I am completely stumped how anyone could ever possibly believe he has achieved anything remotely resembling notability. JBsupreme (talk) 23:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually a person doesn't need to achieve anything to be notable. I do admit that he is of more interest to church members than to the general public. Steve Dufour (talk) 14:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The less an individual achieves, the less scope there is for "significant coverage" on them. This is the case in the two newspaper articles -- which concentrate more on Hyung Jin Moon as a window into the church than as the central topic. Hence the lack of biographical material from which to form an article. I would suggest that, even within the church, he is more of interest for who his parents are, than for the narrative of his life story. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 15:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton | ^Talk 22:56, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/26/religion.korea) Guardian profile is indicative of his notability.--Pink Bull (talk) 18:01, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.