The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Master race. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:20, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Herrenvolk[edit]

Herrenvolk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

POV fork on a straightforward translation of Master Race. An attempt to turn it back into a redirect was reverted by the creator. Latebird (talk) 06:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• turn into redirect: While I did not detect any POV, I think it is entirely redundant on Master race. It also seems to contain some unsupported and rather unusial claims, namely that the "Herren" in "Herrenvolk" was originally used in the same sense as in "Herrenmagazin" (men's magazine?) or "Herrenfahrrad" (man's bicycle), not in the sense as in "Herrenrasse" (=Master race) or "Herrenmensch" (=single member of Herrenrasse). I.e. that the original meaning of "Herrenvolk" would be about the same as "Mannsvolk" (menfolk) or maybe "German menfolk", and that the modern meaning of "master race" was only a product of the Nazis twisting the word's meaning. On a minor note, the focus on Germany (as opposed to all "Nordic" peoples) also seems a bit too non-obvious to accept it without further support. Yaan (talk) 10:20, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• KEEP: The German word for Master Race is 'Herrenrasse' not 'Herrenvolk'. The term Herrenvolk was used by Germans before the Nazi's used it and Herrenvolk was applied differently than the word 'Herrenrasse'. Therefore, the article should be kept. Green Squares (talk) 11:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Herrenvolk would translate to "Master people", and the term can be traced back to even before WWI. But at the current state, the only part of the article that is not redundant to Master race is a false etymology and a (garbled?) quote. Yaan (talk) 13:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are wrong. You can find many non master race usage at Google Scholar now just relax, wait and let a consensus be built. Green Squares (talk) 15:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Would be nice if you could bring up a specific link, since to me, many many of those links seem indeed refer to some kind of "master race" concept. Btw. can we at least agree that "Herren" really has two syllabes, not just one? Yaan (talk) 18:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - this link - http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herrenvolk&redirect=no - shows the German Wikipedia redirects Herrenvolk → Herrenrasse, that is master people to master race. PhilKnight (talk) 14:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Master race - unconvinced by the arguments about the necessity of a separate article. PhilKnight (talk) 14:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Master race - the article says nothing that shouldn't be included there --T-rex 14:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Pile-on redirect per above Madcoverboy (talk) 18:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.