The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Discussion regarding the article can continue on its talk page if desired. (Non-administrator closure) NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:30, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Harbor Church[edit]

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This appears to lack the significant coverage needed to meet WP:GNG. Simply being an old church does not confer notability; per WP:ORG significant coverage still must be demonstrated. I can't find any mention of this organization in news archive searches. Tchaliburton (talk) 14:31, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Request for clarification. The article states that this church is part of the Old Harbor Historic District, which is registered in the NRHP. However, it is unclear to me whether the current building is actually one of the buildings of "special historic and architectural value" listed in the inventory of the NRHP nomination form. (I do see references in that inventory to the former site of an earlier building for this congregation, and to the Adrian Hotel which apparently served as the temporary home of the congregation.) [1] If it is, then at minimum this content (or at least some portion of it) would belong in the article about the historic district. If it isn't, then the notability of the building is in doubt, although some content about the history of the congregation and its buildings might still be appropriate in the historic district article. --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:32, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

National Register of Historic Places - The current church is the former Adrian Hotel, which is no longer a hotel. The church has met in the former Adrian Hotel since 1944 though a sanctuary was built in 1952. The hotel and church is listed on the National Register of Historic Places under Old Port Historic District in New Shoreham, RI. The 1974 nomination form lists Adrian Hotel and Harbor Church in Part 25 under Spring Street though it has a 21 Water Street address. This is included in the Wikipedia article.Billy Hathorn (talk) 16:54, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be more relevant to combine this article with the Old Harbor Historic District article and expand on said article to include information about all the structures listed on its record [2] Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 17:08, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If I'm understanding correctly, the church is not on the National Register of Historic Places as an individual building, but it's in the district which is. If that's correct then I think Steve Lux, Jr.'s suggestion makes sense. Tchaliburton (talk) 01:21, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct Tchaliburton. I went through the register for Rhode Island in great detail and verified this in the nomination form here [3]. I added a full listing of all the properties on the district article page. This article page does not seem necessary. I believe the information in the current article should be used on the district article page. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 02:30, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This link has the Old Harbor Historic District individual listings: ^[1]Billy Hathorn (talk) 02:38, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Billy Hathorn, no it doesn't. The file lists all 42 properties as one group. Essentially, the listing on the National Historic Register is for the "district" of properties, not the individual properties themselves. If that were the case, there would be an individual listing for each of the properties, which there is not. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 03:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NRHP register:

Spring Street:
Property 25 (intersection of Spring Street and Water Street, 21 Water Street): Adrian Hotel First Baptist Church (Harbor Church), 1886
Property 26: Hotel Manisses, 1882,
etc.))Billy Hathorn (talk) 14:09, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Billy Hathorn, I know what the file says. The file lists the properties, as you just showed, as I have included the complete list on the Old Harbor Historic District article page. These individual properties are not listed in the NRHP, but only as a group. Therefore, your page should be merged with the district page and the Harbor Church page should be deleted as it does not constitute having its own article. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 14:17, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 19:25, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Rhode Island-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:11, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per Billy Hathorn. XiuBouLin (talk) 23:44, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect, per Steve Lux, Jr.. Non-notable. The article currently conflates and confuses the entirely uninteresting religious institution (really, who cares what the parson's wife's name is?), in its fifth or sixth premises, with the structure of the Adrian Hotel, which appears to be of some conservation interest though not enough to justify a separate listing by the NRHP. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:16, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Wikipedia has a listing of locations on the National Register of Historic Places. Not all have their own articles. Here is a part of the listing of, for example, Coconino County, Arizona, where there are some red links implying that they may be eligible for their own articles. I didn't notice any only in black print. Here are three red and two blue listings:

Current listings[edit]

^[2]	Name on the Register	Image	Date listed^[3]	Location	City or town
1	1956 Grand Canyon TWA – United Airlines Aviation Accident Site	1956 Grand Canyon TWA – United Airlines Aviation Accident Site	April 22, 2014 (#14000280)	Near the confluence of the Colorado River and Little Colorado River 36°10′30″N 111°50′00″W / 36.175°N 111.833333°W / 36.175; -111.833333	Grand Canyon National Park
2	Abandoned Route 66, Ash Fork Hill	Upload image	May 19, 1989 (#89000380)	North of Interstate 40 between Ash Fork and Williams 35°13′10″N 112°21′39″W / 35.219444°N 112.360833°W / 35.219444; -112.360833 (Abandoned Route 66, Ash Fork Hill)	Ash Fork
3	Abandoned Route 66, Parks (1921)	Upload image	May 19, 1989 (#89000377)	West of Parks 35°15′36″N 111°57′19″W / 35.26°N 111.955278°W / 35.26; -111.955278 (Abandoned Route 66, Parks (1921))	Parks
4	Abandoned Route 66, Parks (1931)	Upload image	May 19, 1989 (#89000378)	East of Parks 35°15′35″N 111°56′43″W / 35.259722°N 111.945278°W / 35.259722; -111.945278 (Abandoned Route 66, Parks (1931))	Parks
5	Horace M. Albright Training Center	Upload image	September 13, 2013 (#13000784)	Albright Ave. & Center Rd. 35°58′41″N 111°59′26″W / 35.978006°N 111.990509°W / 35.978006; -111.990509	Grand Canyon National Park

Billy Hathorn (talk) 13:56, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

^ "Nomination form, National Register of Historic Places, Section 25 (Spring Street)" (PDF). preservation.ri.gov. May 8, 1974. Retrieved July 30, 2014.
^ Numbers represent an alphabetical ordering by significant words. Various colorings, defined here, differentiate National Historic Landmarks and historic districts from other NRHP buildings, structures, sites or objects.
^ The eight-digit number below each date is the number assigned to each location in the National Register Information System database, which can be viewed by clicking the number.

Billy Hathorn, wrong. Red links do not mean that something is eligible for its own article. It means that someone linked it to a non-existant article page, such as JC Car Rentals. Just because I linked to a non-existant article page, does not mean that JC Car Rentals should ever have an article page in an encyclopedia. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 13:13, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If JC Car Rentals is an historic place on the register, wouldn't it qualify for a Wikipedia article? Billy Hathorn (talk) 14:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We are not discussing JC Car Rentals. We are discussing the fact that the red links do not justify having a separate article. But for the sake of argument, yes, essentially, if JC Car Rentals was listed on the historic register then it may have its own article. But the fact is, Harbor Church is not listed on the historic register. The only tie to the church is that the Adrian Hotel building is in the DISTRICT NRHP listing. Steve Lux, Jr. (talk) 14:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Old Harbor Historic District or delete. If the "history" section in the article was sourced to reliable secondary sources, I would say "keep".--180.172.239.231 (talk) 12:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I don't see how merging would be a viable solution. It would make the Old Harbor HD article look very distorted, giving undue weight to the church's information. If there is substantial information about the church itself (which there is), then it merits a stand-alone article. CesareAngelotti (talk) 14:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.