The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The lone dissenting !vote is only asserting that the topic is notable but not showing it Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:21, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Family tree of House Targaryen[edit]

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Also nominated:

Family tree of House Stark (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Family tree of House Lannister (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

These are all family trees from the A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones fictional universe. There is also everything in Category:A Song of Ice and Fire family tree templates, which will need to be deleted separately via TfD after this discussion concludes.

The reasons for deletion are:

These family trees are not notable (WP:GNG) because no third-party sources discuss them as such (as family trees, rather than the fictional families, but these are likely also not notable and do not seem to have articles).
The contents are also original research (WP:OR) because the set of characters in the TV series and the novels differ significantly and it is not clear which of both, or a combination, these family trees are meant to represent.
Furthermore, to the extent that the family trees appear to have been copied from the frequently cited source "Martin, George R. R.; García Jr., Elio M.; Antonsson, Linda (2014)", they are copyright violations. (Real-world family trees document facts, which are are not copyrightable, but fictional family trees are just another copyrightable work of fiction.)
Finally, it should be apparent at a glance that this is the sort of in-universe fancruft that belongs in specialized fan wikis, not in a general purpose encyclopedia that treats fiction from an out-of-universe perspective (see WP:WAF). Our policy WP:NOTPLOT directs that articles must not only consist of a summary of works of fiction, and these articles fail this policy. Sandstein 15:35, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:41, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I applaud the writer's dedication to the topic and the detail, but a family tree for a fictional entity is not really an approprriate Wikipedia article. I'd suggest perhaps having this article on the Song of Ice and fire wiki site BSOleader (talk) 16:30, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep They are notable and good to have in the different GoT character articles. - AffeL (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - cruft, no in-depth significant coverage from outside GoT universe; List of A Song of Ice and Fire characters, Outline of A Song of Ice and Fire franchise, World of A Song of Ice and Fire, is sufficient here - how many of these do we need? Neutrality^talk 20:46, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No valid rationale for keeping, plus these are OR magnets, since the show and books differ substantially in these details (in fact the show is very self-contradictory, especially if one includes Blu-Ray special features); either Wikipedia conflates the books and show (which would be a nightmare), or explicitly compares them to each other (which, if properly sourced, would not be unacceptable, but would still be very fancrufty, would miss the point that the show is self-contradictory -- this fact is more difficult to source, since almost no one watches those Blu-Ray features, and would probably be better confined to character lists rather than standalone articles). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:51, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. Jclemens (talk) 23:06, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Jclemens (talk) 23:06, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unfortunately, these are a bit too fancrufty for my liking, and I don't think you're ever going to get around the problems of OR and copyvios. These trees should be left to the GOTwikis, not Wikipedia. Somethingwickedly (talk) 08:53, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per the others. At best, it should be template-ified and put on the main list page, but I don't think Wikipedia needs to delve as deep into the ASOIAF fandom as westeros.org does. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as I am in agreement with the above comments. Aoba47 (talk) 16:02, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.