The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:57, 6 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Club Loyalty Award[edit]

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PROD contested by IP, original rationale of "non-notable sporting award" remains valid. A minor award, issued by a newspaper and not any official footballing body, and only given for four years. I cannot see how this meets WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 13:33, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 13:34, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The award is still mentioned a lot and very well known around Russia. Even though the article is not to big, it's a notable and famous Russian award. 2.124.1.23 (talk) 14:09, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You need to demonstrate that using reliable sources. Giant Snowman 14:12, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just type Приз верность клубу in Google, and you will find a lot of articles mentioning it. The problem is, there is no way to incorporate them into the article, but I can bring you plenty here, even to the extent that in some versions of club histories it was mentioned (and individual award are not always mentioned in general club histories). 2.124.1.23 (talk) 17:59, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What on earth do you mean "there is no way to incorporate them into the article"?! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Giant Snowman 18:13, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's not ridiculous, you probably just didn't understand what I said. For example, in various Dynamo Kiev history it's mentioned that Blokhin got the Club Loyalty Award, but how will you incorporate that into the article? Those links don't add anything that the article doesn't already have. 2.124.1.23 (talk) 20:11, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 20:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 20:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 16:57, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - this 2000 article reports the sixth award of the Club Loyalty Award, but by a different newspaper. As IP 2 says, there seem to be several news reports about an award with this name, but someone needs to clarify whether the award continued or whether these later reports are about something else. It looks to me like the award by Prapor Communizma was discontinued and another newspaper started a similar award in 1995. IN which case the earlier award may be unverifiable. Sionk (talk) 17:18, 10 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's true, and the new award claims to be the successor of the original one, but I'm not sure it generates as much interest. The old one was a big deal in the USSR, it was spoken about by people and it was added to club histories. The new award seems to be just a fading headline in the newspaper (even though sometimes it was awarded at the Kremlin, like the maminov one). I think the new award can be added to the same article, though not easy to find links of all years. It's common in the CIS that an old award was renewed by a different newspaper because the old newspaper doesn't exist anymore or something like that. Footballer of the Year in Baltic and Commonwealth of Independent States (Sport-Express) is a new version of Soviet player of the year, but it's given out by a different newspaper. The one giving out the new award is the "Moscow Railwayworker" paper ([1]). 2.124.14.197 (talk) 10:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently the renewed award was officially recognized by the Russian football union, so adding later years to the article.2.124.14.197 (talk) 11:03, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 03:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we kind of discussed it all. The award was very popular during Soviet times, to the extent it was mentioned in club biographies. The reason we can't reference it is because those links will not add new information to the article. We already have a reference Blokhin got it in 1986, do we really need the same thing referenced again from a different source?

After the Soviet Union collapsed the award was renewed, and despite the fact it was not as popular as the original one (maybe because in the new capitalist ear staying in one club is not as respected as in the past), and yet the award was awarded in the Kremlin (which already makes the new version of the award notable). 2.124.14.197 (talk) 20:55, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The more coverage the award got that you can evidence, the stronger your argument for notability gets. Giant Snowman 08:31, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a link about the honours given to Dynamo Kiev and it's players where it's listed: [2]. Here is a link saying a player got given the award at the Kremlin and that it had the endorsement of Russian football union: [3]. Here is an article about Malafeyev who didn't receive the award because it doesn't exist anymore, and still it was mentioned that if it would exist he would get it: [4]. Here is an article about Shakhtar where it was mentioned it's player received the award: [5]. All those links prove it's an award the football community does talk about and remember. 2.124.14.197 (talk) 23:20, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:31, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What else do I need to provide to stop this discussion? I was asked to give links to prove the awards notability, which I did by showing it was awarded in the Kremlin, indorsed by the RFU, and that it was mentioned in articles about club history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.124.14.197 (talk) 21:58, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Question being ignored? PS I don't know why my IP changed. 176.251.55.76 (talk) 18:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.