The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge to Fairfax County elementary schools. —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-02-17 20:59Z

Clifton Elementary School (Clifton, Virginia)[edit]

It's an elementary school, in Fairfax County, VA. I don't see much of a claim of notability here, nor in any of the other articles on elementary schools in Fairfax County that I will be adding here. Brianyoumans 03:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC) I have added to this AFD the following Fairfax County elementary school articles:[reply]

Brianyoumans 03:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It's a cute class project, but more appropriate elsewhere. I'd pretty much extend this vote to any and every elementary school and junior high. --Action Jackson IV 03:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all of them into a school district page. BJ^Talk 03:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable elementary school. --Holdek ^(talk) 05:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge seems like an excellent idea here. Notability in numbers, or something like that. Realkyhick 05:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all I don't think they need their own article but would be better on a combined page. --† Ðy§ep§ion † ^{Speak your mind} 18:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The Fairfax County Public Schools article already lists all the schools and their grade levels. Brianyoumans 19:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete all - In that case, delete all. Elementary schools and junior high schools are generally not notable. --† Ðy§ep§ion † ^{Speak your mind} 19:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete all per lack of notability. DMacks 19:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Some some have notability and i am working on notability for Union Mill ES. A few have no use but some are notable. Floris is I belive the oldest public school in Fairfax county and Clifton is one of the oldest in Northern VA, although not public in the begining. Union Mill is named after this mill on Bull Run creek that supplied stuff for the battles of Manassas in the Civil War, and has a grindstone from the mill (see photo in article) on display in front of it. I have no notability for Herndon, Sunrise, or Mosby, however. KeepOnTruckin 21:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, remember Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_not_subjective and (citing guide to deletion here) "the fact that you haven't heard of something, or don't personally consider it worthy, are not criteria for deletion. You must look for, and demonstrate that you couldn't find, any independent sources of sufficient depth" KeepOnTruckin 21:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Merge. I believe the major problem here is likely the absence of references in this articles or a plethora of relevant links that could help establish a more fine-tuned and reliable article. I believe that if enough information can be presented for an independent article, then in the terms of public schools, the school should receive its own article. The main reason behind notability guidelines is to allow for sensible articles that are not commercially representing or self-representing. If an article is able to provide a good deal of substance that is backed by reliable references then I support it. However, for the meantime, since this article does not adequately meet all of these guidelines, it should me merged. Another option is tagging the article with clean up tags and need references tags to see if that information is actually available. Sukh17 ^{Talk | Contribs} 22:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- A similar AFD on other Fairfax county public schools is located here, note that AFD was also started by User:Brianyoumans. KeepOnTruckin 00:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, that is one part of the middle schools; the rest of them are at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rachel Carson Middle School --Brianyoumans 00:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- As to a merger: these schools, what grades they offer, and what "cluster" they are in are already listed in the Fairfax County Public Schools article. --Brianyoumans 00:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all per KeepOnTruckin. Fairfax County Public Schools is a notable school district in the US. For example, Sunrise Valley Elementary School has been cited in several news reports, such as [1] for its educational program. It also has a gifted program cited in this news report [2]. I believe the above blanket "delete" votes are flawed as they have overlooked at least one notable case in Sunrise Valley Elementary School.--Vsion 06:27, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The first citation you give is a short mention in the article; the article is not about Sunrise Valley, it is about efforts to teach children about finance. The second article is in a Fairfax County community paper and is a short news note. Brianyoumans 06:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Are you aware of these references before nomination? If not, I hope you could offer the courtesy not to WP:TROLL, these are new information for other editors to consider. Also, you have misread the Denver-post/washington-post article, the first half of the article was devoted to Sunrise Valley, more than a "short mention". The article clearly satisfies the criteria of having multiple reliable sources. Also there are now strong claims of notability. I wish to note also that at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rachel Carson Middle School, the notability of another school was overlooked. Again, I'm troubled by this mass nomination and blanket "delete" voting. --Vsion 07:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - I was merely giving my impression of the sources that you came up with. I certainly intend to "discuss" and not "troll". Surely we can disagree without resorting to personal attacks? --Brianyoumans 07:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      - I apologize if you feel this is a personal attack, that's not my intention. But I have to note that your arguments were being selective, e.g. you noted that the 2nd reference is of a "community paper", but failed to mention that the first reference is from the nationally-distributed "washington post" posted in Denver. Of course, this bias is probably unintentional on your part, but to avoid further nick-picking, I suggest we just move on, and not to challenge each other's argument unless there is gross error or something significantly new to add. --Vsion 07:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        Agreed. I had noticed the first source was from the Denver Post, I guess I figured everyone else would who bothered to hover their cursor over the link. The second link was somewhat more ambiguous unless you clicked it and saw where it went. --Brianyoumans 08:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
delete all Some have nothing at all to say, and the others would fit into a section of the general article:

This particular one, Clifton is "smallest school in the country." & nothing more; But Greenbriar isn't even that, and fills its space with a list of the other schools, Colvin Run' doesn't even have such a list, Herndon has a French class, Mosley woods has a central hallway, Sunrise has a field day, Union Mill a millstone (not having any actual connection with the school). McNair is distinctive, for it has a well written article--although the main point is a local family, not the school. If any of this is notable, the material can go in the general article until there is enough to make a strong case for that particular one. Alternatively, we go one at a time and it takes forever & will probably be inconsistent as well. DGG 06:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There is nothing in this article in its present form which suggests that the school is in any way notable. The content is entirely trivial and non-encyclopaedic. Dahliarose 09:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Notability neither asserted nor shown. WMMartin 17:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When I say that I mean for All, of course. WMMartin 17:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As to a merger, the Fairfax County Public Schools is turning into a list. Merging every elementary school into that article (FCPS has 137 of them, although there arent than many on wikipedia, people might add more)would make that article extremley long. There is nothing wrong with having articles on elementary and middle schools, and if there is a problem with any of the articles, IMPROVE them instead of blanket deleting them all. --KeepOnTruckin 18:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, then merge them into a Fairfax County elementary schools and so on. BJ^Talk 23:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think these can be merged back in as a table that lists some of the school data - grade range, perhaps what school it feeds, town it is located in, and the school website. We can lose stuff like the principal's name, the school mascot, what the names of the grade 3 "teams" are, etc.--Brianyoumans 23:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete All A big load of non-notable schoolcruft. Soltak | Talk 20:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral Unless there is something noteworthy about this school in particular, it should be merged as previously recommended. I do not support deleting it, however. --Ozgod 23:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment All schools are notable to me, and I am happy to read an article on any school on wikipedia, regardless of district. Brianyoumans, you have consitently stated that the reason you want these articles deleted is because they have no assertion of notability/they arent notable enough to be on wikipedia. Let me say this again, citing the guide to deletion (my apologies if I am making the same argument twice) "the fact that you haven't heard of something, or don't personally consider it worthy, are not criteria for deletion. You must look for, and demonstrate that you couldn't find, any independent sources of sufficient depth." "Lack of "notability" is not a criterion for deletion, because (among other reasons) this isn't specifically stated in the deletion policy; and since Wikipedia is not paper and has no size limits [except those of the server...not important here], there's no reason why Wikipedia shouldn't include "everything" that fits in with the other criteria, such as WP:Verifiability and no original research". If these schools are such a non-notable topic, then people wont search for them. They arent harming Wikipedia, but they are helping anyone who read them. In fact, if "we delete articles solely due to their obscurity, currently obscure, or seemingly obscure, subjects may gain more popular interest at a later date. In such a case, deleted articles will constitute a loss of valuable (and perhaps, in the transitory world of the internet, irreproducible) information." "Non-notable" is a non-NPOV designation, therefore not abiding by policy. The person who authored the article probably believes that the topic is notable enough to be included. "Writing 'Delete, non-notable' is not about whether the articles should be in Wikipedia, but rather that it is a quick phrase that does not tell everyone else why the article is non-notable". Brianyoumans, you need to prove that all these school articles aren't notable. KeepOnTruckin 04:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I feel no need to demonstrate their non-notability. I think you are confusing "notability" and "verifiability". I'm not sure where you are quoting from, but my fundamental objection to these articles is that, since they are not (in my view) notable, they then fall under "Wikipedia is not a directory" and "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" from WP:NOT. If you come up with something notable on one or two of these schools, the articles can always be recreated. But how likely is it that ALL these schools are notable? This isn't Lake Wobegon, where "all the children are above average". :-) --Brianyoumans 05:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
KeepOnTruckin has misunderstood the instructions on the Wikipedia:Guide to deletion which clearly states that the need to check for sources is part of the nomination process. We can therefore assume that the person who nominated the article was unable to find any suitable sources to justify the notability of this particular school. The onus is not on the people involved in the deletion debate to find such sources. We can only judge the article on what is written. If there are sources which prove the school's notability then it is up to that article's editors to do a re-write and include suitable references. As the article stands there is nothing in the article to indicate that the school is in any way notable and it should therefore be deleted. Dahliarose 20:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as not notable — MrDolomite • Talk 18:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Fairfax County Public Schools or Delete. Vegaswikian 01:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.