The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep as redirect - Philippe | Talk 21:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Beth El Synagogue[edit]

Beth El Synagogue (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Beth El, if my Hebrew is correct means "House of God". A list of Synagogues which have been named as such is about as non-notable, unmaintabable and indiscriminate as "List of Churches called St Peters" or "List of mosques named for the prophet". Prod removed without reasoning. Doc^g 12:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC) [reply]

If the synagogues are worth keeping in Wikipedia, then they should have their own articles, or be organised by geography etc. Organising them together because they happen to share a name makes little sense. Might as well have "List of Pizza houses called Tony's".--Doc^g 12:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect as indicated--Doc^g 21:09, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. — dvdrw 22:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Each synagogue should have its own article if notable. Dreamspy (talk) 12:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• I would have voted keep if there were sources for this article. Unfortunately as none exist, I'll have to vote weak delete.Vice regent 14:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete It's essentially a list of towns that have a synagogue that happens to be called "Beth El Synagogue"... Southbury, Baltimore, Minneapolis, etc.... you could do a similar article about which towns have a "First Presbyterian Church", but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve. Mandsford (talk) 21:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is,[1] and it is all redlinks. dvdrw 22:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  Incredible. I don't see any purpose for this type of article other than for a churchgoer to say, "Hey, they have an 'Immanuel Baptist Church' in _____town, just like we do!" Mandsford (talk) 02:31, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:NOT#DIRECTORY. No reliable evidence of notability, claim of notability appears to be WP:OR.) Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 22:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC See comment below --Shirahadasha (talk) 22:07, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep pending improvement, conversion to dab page or redirect. I see nothing more fitting for a list than arrangement according to name, maybe that is just too obvious. I think this would make a fine dab page if anyone took the time to improve it rather than simply trying to delete any synagogue page that shows some sign of weakness. Dab pages, which is what this article is in my opinion or could be easily converted to, do not have the same requirements for references. If converted to dab conventions, perhaps this would be mostly red links at first along the lines of Temple Beth-El or other examples, but there is a subtlety between "synagogue" and "temple" that I think should be preserved. I'm not sure if the editors who have listed these establishments have taken this into account or not, or if they are truly interchangeable, but if no one is going to improve this article in the time of this afd then I think it should be redirected to Temple Beth-El. dvdrw 22:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete with ability to Reinstate Beth El is like "Young Israel" or "Hebrew Institute" or "Shira Hadasha" it originally meant a specific type of synagogue, in this case a theology of Conservative Judiasm that was not the same as a "Jewish Center". This article did not address the topic at all. --Jayrav (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone created an article such as you suggest, if would be different entirely and would not qualify for a deletion as a repost. I'd undelete it myself if anyone tried to speedy it,--Doc^g 23:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge/Redirect to Temple Beth-El. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 06:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do not merge. The name is not Beth El - the name is Beth El Synagogue or Beth El Temple. A Beth El Temple is Reform, a Beth El Synagogue started as mixed seating orthodox, that become Conservative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayrav (talk • contribs) 15:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - and expend, this is a great idea to list all the great houses of worship with this holy name, thanks--YY (talk) 10:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

* Strong Delete Anyone saying keep doesn't understand how Wikipedia works. If any of the synagogues named "Beth El Synagogue" are notable for inclusion in Wikipedia, they should have their own articles at "Beth El Synagogue (City)". Then, the page "Beth El Synagogue" would serve as a disambiguation page for those articles. Wikipedia is not a place for lists of places of worship. I encourge everyone who wants to keep this page to write articles on all the notable Beth El Synagogues. Then we can make this page a disambiguation page. Dgf32 (talk) 21:43, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

* Nomination for Speedy Deletion per CSD A3. Article has no meaningful content. It is a list of synagogues which may not be notable as none of them have articles on Wikipedia. This page could be recreated as a disambiguation page if it is needed to disambiguate between multiple listings of Beth El Synagogues, but as of now a disambiguation page is not needed here. Dgf32 (talk) 21:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - if the synagogues listed had individual articles, this could be a disambiguation page, however at the moment, all I could suggest is a redirect. Addhoc (talk) 22:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I was going to make the page into a redirect page or a disambiguation page, but there are no articles on a "Beth El Synagogue" to redirect to or disambiguate to. That's why it has to be deleted. Dgf32 (talk) 22:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy - there's no real content. Mangoe (talk) 04:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I left a message on the article's talk page. If no one objects, I'm going to change the page to serve as a redirect to Temple Beth El, which is an existing disambiguation page. It can always be made into a disambiguation page for "Beth El Synagogue" in the future. That we can avoid deletion. Dgf32 (talk) 06:33, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Converted to a redirect. Dgf32 (talk) 19:49, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Page now serves as a redirect to Temple Beth-El because there were no "Beth El Synagogue" articles to disambiguate to. Dgf32 (talk) 19:49, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep the newly added redirect which, as noted above, does disambiguate several similarly named synagogues that have existing articles. --MPerel 03:52, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Do we have any reliable sources for the comments made at this AfD by Jayrav and others tha a "Beth El Synagogue" is not simply a random name for a synagogue, but originally meant a specific type -- a mixed seating Orthodox synagogue? If so, and if we could change the article accordingly, this would change my view. What sources do we have for this claim? If this is sourced, then, (a) It would be worth a keep, (b) a merge or redirect to Temple Beth El would be inappropriate since the latter is an institution in Reform Judaism or the left (rather than the right) wing of Conservative Judaism, and (c) it might be worth mentioning in Conservadox Judaism as well. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 22:07, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment, ah, at any rate it does appear the redirect to Tempel Beth El is inappropriate since as Shirahadasha says it appears all the Beth El Synagogues on the list belong to the Conservative movement and Temple Beth El is Reform. --MPerel 05:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentActually, Synagogue Naming Practices might be a good topic for an article. Did you know that the Talmud condemns those who name their synagogues Beth Am.... which is a popular synagogue name? Yudel (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 04:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• NOTE: The term "Beth el" or "Beth-el" or "Bethel" is used by Reform and Conservative synagogues, (and sometimes Orthodox ones too, minus the word "Temple"), so that perhaps the Temple Beth-El page should istelf be renamed Synagogues named Beth-El that would be a legitimate disambiguation page for all such synagogues, and it be required that all articles about synagogues name their geographic locations in their titles. IZAK (talk) 20:54, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep because as of now all it is, is a redirect page to Temple Beth-El, which in turn is a valid disambiguation page. IZAK (talk) 20:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep the redirect page. Addhoc (talk) 20:38, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• As nominator, I am happy to see this kept as a redirect to a useful dab page, providing we remember that disambigs are for disambiging articles we have and not creating crufty lists by the back door. So keep it.--Doc^g 20:48, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.