The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 21:46, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ben Fielding[edit]

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Apparently a contested PROD. Non-notable musician. Fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. He co-wrote a Grammy-award winning song in a minor category, but that has not led to extensive coverage. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:49, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:55, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:55, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:55, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. The guy has won a Grammy Award ([1]). Clearly satisfies WP:COMPOSER. WWGB (talk) 06:27, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Wow. You're missing the word "may" in the criteria. The subject here is a co-writer and the writing gained the subject no press. You're living a decade ago expecting that a notability criteria alone proves that a subject is notable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the category might be minor, but to win a Grammy award is not a trivial achievement. Sources here [2], [3], [4], and [5]. Passes GNG. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 06:38, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Source 1 is a press release, and even if it weren't is passing mention. Source 2 is much better, but is not WP:SIGCOV of subject here. Source 3 is interesting. It appears to be a RS, but has no byline and is essentially a repackaging of source 2 down to the exact same quotes. No SIGCOV there either. Source 4 no SIGCOV either. As I said, the subject fails GNG and we're not talking song of the year here so we're not going to find coverage of the subject. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:58, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The awards make him of encyclopedic interest and the sources provide verifiability. We would only need significant coverage in order to have a longer article. --Michig (talk) 09:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect I was going for a "weak delete". Delete because while one might work on the basis of a presumption of notabiltiy having won a Grammy, in this case the subject has, as far as I can tell, absolutely failed to get any coverage because of it, hence fails GNG. There are many very basic mentions, ie, that the subject won the award, but that is the entire end of it. They only mention that the award was won. There is no further discussion or review of the subject. Weak because if the subject was a footballer or a cricketer, for example, they would have romped in notability with such an award. But that would be OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and just goes to show the highly varied and subjective standards we have for notability? As to encyclopedic interest, and hence likely search term, agreed, so redirect to What a Beautiful Name. Aoziwe (talk) 10:14, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would be ok with a merge/redirect if there was one suitable target, but as he has written two award-winning songs (winning two Dove Awards and a Grammy), that both have articles, I don't feel that redirecting to one of them would be the best outcome. --Michig (talk) 10:41, 10 March 2020 (UTC) Actually, digging deeper, I have found three Dove Award wins so far. --Michig (talk) 11:09, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I went for the major award subject as the redirect, the other ~~two~~three being essentially "in-house" awards. If the subject keeps going then they may attract more recognition and hence coverage and hence notability. Perhaps it is a matter of TOOSOON? Two --> three, hmmm, you a begining to sway me to a keep. I will have a think about it. Aoziwe (talk) 11:13, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. One possibility would be a merge to Hillsong Worship, where details of some of these awards is currently missing. All of the songs that he's known for seem to be essentially Hillsong collaborations. --Michig (talk) 11:16, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That would seem like a good alternative. Even though the subject has won a few awards, apart from sources stating the subject won the award, there seems to be zero further coverage, so I just cannot see how notability, in-depth, etc, can be supported, but, using a Hillsong as a place for fostering award winning songs, and artists, etc., might be a way? Aoziwe (talk) 13:13, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that the awards for the Hillsong collaborations should be written-up, but few individuals in the group are notable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:47, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further to that, it's unlikely that this will ever be more than a perma-stub. List of Hillsong worship leaders might also be a good target for a redirect. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:42, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

delete isnt notable, if wasnt for Hillsong being active self promoters this article wouldnt exist. And the grammy is not really notable either, if you look at the award its new, and relies mostly on primary sources. Long way to go before getting the award establishes notability. Gnan garra 11:37, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Hillsong Worship as has claims of notability but not enough coverage for a standalone article at this stage, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:04, 14 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
nothing to merge Hillsong Worship that article really struggles to be notable as well, Hillsing church is such a large organisation that this individual isnt really notable within the context of the organisations article either though Hillsong is well known for very actively promoting itself. Gnan garra 09:20, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, xinbenlv ^{Talk, Remember to "ping" me} 05:27, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.