The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep per established precedent at WP:AFD that winners of "Reality TV shows" are notable. Bearian 21:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ashlee Holland[edit]

Ashlee Holland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Delete - "actress" is winner of a reality show. No notability. Not notable enough to have article. She may have won a contract but all that technically means is she gets paid base wages for 13 weeks. The information is also poorly sourced and only comes from Ms. Holland's own site but no other outside sources.IrishLass0128 17:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I got a great deal of this information off of IMDB. The only info that I got off of her site was her birth year, parents name, and where she was born. [1]. I'm currently adding more information. --Alessandro 18:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Her "resume" on IMBD is self posted (posted by the actress looking for work) and her "profile" [2] officially has nothing. Regardless of where the information came from, it is not reliable sourcing and she is not notable enough to have a page. Music videos and winning a contest do not make you noteworthy enough to have an article on Wikipedia. IrishLass0128 19:03, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And commercials and movie appearances? --Alessandro 19:44, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - "actress" lacks notability per Wiki guidelines. Her resume is not verifiable as it is put on IMBD for the purpose of gaining employment. To meet notability standards there must be a reason beyond a couple of commercials and music videos and winning a reality show contest. There must also be reliable source information, which there does not appear to be. - CelticGreen 21:44, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete with comment. Commercials? No. Movie appearances? As long as they're notable. One of the problems that I see is that the resume lists "featured" or "principal" roles that aren't listed within the IMDb or in any reliable sources. The problem with using the IMDb as a primary source is, as the nom says, IMDbs can be created by anyone, with a few dollars. They can also be deleted, if someone complains about lack of verifiable roles. Don't laugh. I've seen it happen. If there were reliable, third-party sources to establish featured or principal roles in notable films, then the article would be kept.--Sethacus 21:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case then this page Saaphyri Windsor should be marked for deletion as well...I mean all she did was get kicked off of one reality show and win the other. --Alessandro 23:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you feel that way, you are more than welcome to nominate the page for deletion just as was done with Ashlee's page but mentioning it in this AfD nomination, won't do anything to get it deleted.- CelticGreen 23:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I've marked Saaphyri Windsor for deletion.--Sethacus 01:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Sethacus, I agree with both deletions, and added comment regarding above. CelticGreen 01:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The talk page is tagged with the Biography of Living People banner yet fails to meet basics of that project/premise. "External links in biographies of living persons must be of high quality and in full compliance with Wikipedia official policies and external links guidelines." Even the referenced entries to IMDB are shells. The one for Shout about Music doesn't even contain a synopsis or plot description. How can that qualify as a reference let alone a "high quality" reference? Answer, it cannot. There is essentially no verifiable information contained in the entire article. The references are all IMDB or her personal site which is just her resume. Even if she appears on Days of our Lives it doesn't mean she deserves a page on Wikipedia. Being a soap actress for 13 weeks doesn't denote notability.IrishLass0128 14:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added more references and took off quite a bit that referenced to IMDB. At the time I was not aware that IMDB is not a good source to get information. --Alessandro 17:45, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know you are trying, but she still lacks notability. She's a commercial actress that won a reality show on a cable network that not everyone even gets and she's going to be on a show that is scheduled for cancellation in 2009 and currently 8th in the ratings. There is just no notability. It fails the criteria. Further review: Di Media Online's is merely an online talent agency, therefore no notability can be established by including this no can Shout about Music be used, it's a video game and the reference noted is a place to purchase and cannot be used as a reference as there is no indication on that page that the picture is conclusively Ashlee. IrishLass0128 18:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't quite know what to think of this issue. I mean, we usually create topics on people who have won contests on a (usually very notable) show, as seen with America's Next Top Model, especially if the person is the first to win in the show's history, though the circumstances are probably different with America's Next Top Model...because they get a solid contract as a model. And that show comes on a channel that most people have. IMDB is a good source in some instances, but if I had to say delete to this article, it would be due to there not being references that truly establish her notability, unless her being a winner on this show is deemed notable enough. This article can always be re-created when or if she gets more work, notable work at that. Flyer22 19:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Wikipedia precedent is that winners of their respective shows are notable enough for wikipages." Here --Alessandro 03:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone's opinion is not notable argument. Show citation for the comment, please. CelticGreen 03:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per precedent that reality show winners, as opposed to mere contestants, are notable. This precedent shouldn't be changed without wider discussion. --Groggy Dice T | C 02:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the show she won on is not available to everyone and is not widely known, it didn't even make the Nielsen top 100. If everyone who won every produced reality show had a page the Wikipedia as "good reference" reputation would be diminished.IrishLass0128 13:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. --Sc straker 18:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.