The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Rachel Corrie#Reactions. MBisanz ^talk 06:51, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Artistic Tributes to Rachel Corrie[edit]

Artistic Tributes to Rachel Corrie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

I know I'm going to get it for this but in short, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Rachel Corrie is notable, some of the tributes to her are notable, but anything more than a few paragraphs like at Rachel_Corrie#Artistic_tributes seems excessive. Not every tribute nor is the concept of tributes to her notable. I see that Talk:Rachel Corrie has some discussion about this split but I really don't see the need for this article at all, not even a merge. Ricky81682 (talk) 08:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect Keep Actually, I think a merge or at least a redirect with the option to merge is appropriate. This is not the same material that was supposedly split. The article was significantly expanded since its creation and could well contain notable tributes that do need to be discussed in the main article. Only experts editors would know and they should have the option.- Mgm|^(talk) 12:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I changed my vote in accordance with the comments below. It's summary style and not POV, since there's no reasonable opposite POV to be shown. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Obvious keep The current artistic tributes section in the main Rachel Corrie article is about the right size and weight for that article. In accordance with WP:Summary style it is entirely appropriate for fuller details to be given in a separate article, so as not to overwhelm the main article. This article could obviously do with some clean up, but there is plenty of notable material that deserves to be kept. --NSH001 (talk) 14:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep After long debates in the main article page on Rachel Corrie the dedicated editors agreed on separate page creation since the article doesn't have much space on artistic tributes, and if we add everything to the main page either it gets too long or we cannot go in detail about events. For example if we add the table to the main page it would lengthen an already long article. By the way if you somehow try to delete the page warn me beforehand because the page consists of weeks of hard work. I agree on the page is still not fully complete, I could use some help on cleanup the article and paraphrasing yet I did near all the effort in page and it took a great while to gather all information needed for the page. The artists in the artistic tribute page consists of 2 types, world famous musicians like Patti Smith, Billy Bragg, Mike Stout, Klimt 1918, Ten Foot Pole and rest some not so famous worldwide but notable musicians like The Zachary Jones Band, The Gram Partisans, Agnese Ginocchio, Stephanie Lee. I listened near all the tracks mentioned in the article and their work is world class notable I can say as mentioned in wiki guidelines, notability referred in wiki is about the quality of the work. Kasaalan (talk) 16:51, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • My apologies for that. Overall, I simply don't think the range of depictions of her are generally notable. Yes, each individual reference to her may qualify under a reliable source but this starts to look almost like a trivia section (this link to iTunes music store search for "Rachel Corrie" being an example) than a discussion of what she symbolizes, what she represents, why artists use her as a muse (which is what an article about the tributes to her should be in my opinion). -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • First of all itunes search reference is used to show the track lengths, mostly and as a side reference except for 1 track. Secondly yes you are true, the page should be more about why the musicians devoted their songs to Rachel Corrie. Yet I worked for the page alone for the most part so if you like to add that info all the necessary reference already provided by me in the references section. If you really read the interviews, and artist pages you can easily add that info to the article. The hardest part was compiling the table because no such table is available on the internet yet, so it took weeks of research. But as a side note I should comment I have listened near all the tracks in the table and the lyrics already show why the artists made a song about Rachel Corrie. Just read the lyrics you will easily understand. Also before nominating the article for deletion this swiftly, you could try adding info necessary into it. I made calls for help in a lot of pages, yet no user helped much to the article yet. But before helping improving the article you nominate it to deletion and why I cannot understand fully. Kasaalan (talk) 22:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Trying to figure out possible categories for this article, I note that while there are no other artistic tributes pages, there are three pages for artistic depictions (List of artistic depictions of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Artistic depictions of the Bengali Language Movement, Artistic depictions of the partition of India) if people are interested in a general view of how things are done. If kept, discussion as to article title may be appropriate. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• • Just read Ford Mustang article you can see it is divided into First-generation Ford Mustang, Second-generation Ford Mustang, Third-generation Ford Mustang, Fourth-generation Ford Mustang, Fifth-generation Ford Mustang
  • Look at Ludwig van Beethoven separated into Beethoven's musical style and innovations, Beethoven and C minor, List of compositions by Ludwig van Beethoven, Death of Ludwig van Beethoven
  • I also found a The Beatles Tributes, List of artistic depictions of and related to Pride and Prejudice, Artistic depictions of Bangladesh Liberation War, List of artistic depictions of Beowulf, List of artistic depictions of Grendel, List of artistic depictions of Grendel's mother pages
  • At the time being there was a consensus on the page so I created the page instead adding into the main article. Kasaalan (talk) 22:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete and push this back to the main page; complaints about length betray an inability to employ summary style. Eusebeus (talk) 19:29, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Summary style is not the same as shoving all material in one article. It's guidelines specifically mention spin-offs for space reasons as a possible option. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as NPOV-violating fork. This should be part of a balanced presentation in the main article. Or it should be part of an article like "Public reaction to the Rachel Corrie incident." As constructed it is too one-sided. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:14, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you explain how the article violating Neutral point of view I couldn't understand. But we can join the article into a Reactions to Rachel Corrie Case because there are political reactions, documentaries made about Corrie Case, Artistic Tributes and so on. But if your vote is on merging maybe you should refer it as Merge instead Delete. Kasaalan (talk) 22:37, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • As the next two comments indicate, this article is "gerrymandered" so it can only present one side or aspect of a very controversial subject. It is the only "artistic tributes" article in Wikipedia. I think that it actually fails the general notability guideline as well -- while some of the individual songs/works may be notable, there are no reliable independent third party sources cited that treat the general subject as notable. To simplify the issue -- Maxwell's Silver Hammer is a notable Beatles song. But "Songs about silver hammers" is not a notable subject. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, what would be the "other side" of the article in question--artistic tributes to the guy who ran her over? Songs panning her activism? Both positive and negative reviews of the tribute songs? I can see the argument for including this material as a section in the main Rachel Corrie article, but if Kasaalan put weeks of work into researching it, frankly I'd hate to see that go to waste. I'm sure "the amount of work the editor put into it" is not an official Wikipedia notability criterion, but... call me an inclusionist then. AdRock (talk) 03:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep As per Kaslaan, and I can't see how possible it would be a NPOV, what would the other side of the story be, could it be songs insulting Rachel Corrie?!! Yamanam (talk) 13:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well if there would be some songs or plays against Rachel Corrie it would also be an artistic tribute so we could add them yet there is none as far as I know. Kasaalan (talk) 22:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This could be easily be summarized and covered in the existing Rachel Corrie article. SJSA 19:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep definitely notable, and too long for inclusion in the main article. untwirl(talk) 02:19, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Similar to what Hullaballoo Wolfowitz said, merge this content along with Rachel Corrie#Reactions into a new article with a name with a name similar to Public Reaction to the Death of Rachel Corrie. CopaceticThought (talk) 06:26, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• 'Merge per CopaceticThought into a new article named [[Public Reaction to the Death of Rachel Corrie. It can include "Official reactions", "Criticisms" and "Artistic Tributes", amon other sections. For disclosure, I was asked to participate in this discussion by Kasaalan. Tiamut^talk 12:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Rachel Corrie. No need for additional FORKs. THF (talk) 17:58, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.