The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Stifle (talk) 13:39, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Archduke Stefan of Austria[edit]

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An essentially unsourced article about an ordinary person who apparently has an article because he holds a long-extinct (indeed, by now fictitious) title of nobility. Such titles do not confer notability, see WP:MONARCH. The contents of the article are almost entirely genealogical, see WP:NOTGENEALOGY. Nothing in the article suggests notability per WP:BIO, and a Google News search for his German name reveals nothing. It's also worth noting that he has no article in the German-language Wikipedia. Sandstein 08:49, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Royalty and nobility-related deletion discussions. Sandstein 08:49, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Austria and Michigan. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 09:16, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm opposed to the deletion of this biographical entry for Archduke Stefan of Austria, as it has historical interest for those interested in the history of the House of Hapsburg and the Hapsburg Empire.....M.C. O'Connor 76.24.137.110 (talk) 22:41, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
How is someone born in 1932 relevant to the history of the Hapsburg Empire? Phil Bridger (talk) 10:14, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
For those of us interested in the history of the Hapsburg Empire, it provides a connection for the present-day with the beginnings of the Empire in medieval times.....M.C.O'Connor76.24.137.110 (talk) 11:38, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am interested enough in the history of the Hapsburg Empire to know that it finished in 1918. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:50, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Empire finished in 1918, but the House of Hapsburg remains a valid link to past history, and remains of historical interest and relevance. Windemere2 (talk) 19:56, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It would be one thing if he were the head of the house, but he wasn't.2600:387:8:F:0:0:0:B5 (talk) 23:11, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete we need to rid Wikipedia of deposed monarchy cruft.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:45, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Deposed Monarchy information remains part of history, and is a link between the past and the present......M.C.O'Connor76.24.137.110 (talk) 15:04, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. This is a vaguely sweet biography of an utterly ordinary person who, as far as I can tell, has never been subject of any coverage in any reliable sources whatsoever. --JBL (talk) 18:37, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The subject of the article remains of historical interest and relevance as a present-day representative of the House of Hapsburg, and a link to the past. Windemere2 (talk) 19:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If the subject was really a representative of the House of Hapsburg, rather than a normal US citizen just getting on with his life, and was a link to the past, then surely there would be some reliable sources, such as books, that have coverage of him? Please tell us about such sources, without which there is no way this article can be kept. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:08, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
While working as an executive at General Motors, he authored at least two books: Humans in Seats (1977) and The Creative Attitude (1960s). He coauthored : Mass and Weight Distribution in Cars (1969) and What Really Connects in Seating (1977). (All published by General Motors). He also authored Human Factors: Evaluation of Headlight Switching Systems (1974). He also has several technical papers on automobile safety and comfort published on SAE Technical Papers series. My own interest in him derives from his being a representative of the House of Hapsburg, but he's nonetheless a published author. Windemere2 (talk) 23:06, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And which of the criteria at WP:NAUTHOR does he meet? --JBL (talk) 00:49, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
'Any Biography' (part of the historical record of the House of Hapsburg), and perhaps also 'Creative professional'. Windemere2 (talk) 01:04, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What this needs are independent sources that write about him, not sources that he wrote himself. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:15, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently you did not understand the question, so let me ask it again. You asserted that, as a published author, he is notable. There are tens of thousands of published authors who are not notable, and about whom articles do not and never will exist. The guideline WP:NAUTHOR to which I linked gives four criteria that someone could pass to achieve notability as an author. I asked you to identify which of those criteria he meets. Observe that answering this question requires evidence, not repetition of your feelings about members of the House of Hapsburg. (For example: if two of the books he wrote were each the subject of multiple book reviews in the automotive press, that would be evidence that he might pass point 3. And if you were to produce evidence that such reviews existed, I would seriously consider changing my !vote.) JBL (talk) 20:58, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Stefan Habsburg is mentioned in the book "Of Firebirds and Moonmen" by Norman James, 2007. The book is for sale on Amazon and can be accessed on Amazon by googling 'Of Firebirds and Moonmen'. The book apparently deals with the design and development of the Firebird automobile. There are several reviews of the book on Amazon.

The book is also reviewed on the automotive design website 'Dean's Garage'. That review can be accessed by googling 'Stefan Habsburg Dean's Garage' or 'Of Firebirds and Moonmen Part One'. Here's an excerpt from the book that is reprinted in that review: "... the studio was set up with two designers, Stefan Habsburg, a graduate of MIT who's specialty was mechanical and system design..." Windemere2 (talk) 11:27, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When you continue reading down through that lengthy excerpt, he's mentioned multiple more times. Windemere2 (talk) 11:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But that book is not a reliable source, because it is self-published via Xlibris.[1] Phil Bridger (talk) 15:36, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Xlibris has an article on Wikipedia, that doesn't mention anything about it being considered an unreliable source for published information. If it's an unreliable source for published information, why isn't that stated on its Wikipedia article ? It would seem to be relevant and important information. Windemere2 (talk) 11:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It appears to have a good reputation as a book-publishing company. Windemere2 (talk) 11:34, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are book-reviews that appear on the Amazon site considered reliable sources ? Is Dean's Garage, a well-respected automotive website, a reliable source ? Are all books published by Xlibris automatically considered unreliable sources of information ? Windemere2 (talk) 11:38, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The first four words of the Wikipedia article about Xlibris show that it is unreliable, in that it performs no fact-checking. And, in answer to your other questions, Amazon reviews are also user-generated, so unreliable, and are you really saying that Dean's Garage is a reliable source? It is nothing more than one person's web site.[2] Phil Bridger (talk) 13:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The book is also reviewed on the Barnes and Noble site. In the Overview, it states "The design of the Firebird III is the heart of the book and is its reason for existing. AS the last surviving member of the four principals in its design (Harley Earl, Bob McClean, and Stefan Habsburg being the others), the author feels obligated to assure that the story behind those closed studio doors is told....Of Firebirds and Moonmen is heavily documented with photographs, illustrations and graphics, which were prepared at General Motors as proposal and contract deliverables..." This Overview can be accessed by googling ' Barnes and Noble Overview Of Firebirds and Moonmen'

Are all user-generated sites considered unreliable sources ? The book also has a review on Goodreads, and a multitude of other user-generated book-review sites. Windemere2 (talk) 15:21, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:SELFPUB. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:24, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To the best of my knowledge, the Overview statement on the Barnes and Noble site isn't user-generated, but rather reflects Barnes and Noble itself. 76.24.137.110 (talk) 17:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't really matter whether the Barnes and Noble overview is reliable or not, because it only gives the subject the barest of bare mentions in a list in parentheses without saying anything about him other than that he was one of this team. The book itself is definitely self-published. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:38, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Very barebones article with little notability.2600:387:8:F:0:0:0:67 (talk) 18:31, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not much of a dispute here. If he was notable, you would expect sources to be apparent. They're not apparent because he isn't notable. AusLondonder (talk) 18:48, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are lots of sources. Some people would just rather get rid of this article than to look for them. From the moment of his birth, he was the subject of newspaper coverage. This continued throughout his life even in the United States. I'll keep adding other sources.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcferran (talk • contribs)
None of the sources you've added so far is even vaguely in the vicinity of what WP:GNG requests. The actual problem here is that the people who write these articles have no interest in what an encyclopedia is. --JBL (talk) 02:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note I have now shown that Stefan's birth, baptism, marriage, birth of first son, and death were the topic of articles published in major newspapers in Vienna, Boston, New York, Detroit, and Washington, D.C. Noel S McFerran (talk) 04:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.