The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sam Walton (talk) 15:00, 4 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Cvetkovic[edit]

Alex Cvetkovic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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PROD contested by article creator, no reason given. This player has not received any significant coverage (failing WP:GNG) and has not played in a fully-professional league (failing WP:NFOOTBALL). GiantSnowman 17:37, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 17:39, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - the player hasn't played in a fully pro match Spiderone 17:48, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete has not played in a fully pro league.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:27, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely NOT to delete - Alex Cvetkovic is a FIFA internationally transferred player who just this season played a number of 1st team matches for last year's Champions of Luxembourg (5 I believe since the season started) in their highest (premier) league for the club who featured in this year's UEFA Europa League qualifying (beat Aberdeen 1:0 but lost on aggregate) and last year's UEFA Champions League qualifying

Alex Cvetkovic scored two goals in last week's Luxembourg Cup (The FA Cup equivalent) and has even featured prominently in a match against French League 1 FC Metz recently - the main newspaper there even published only his photo when reporting on nationwide Cup results - see http://www.wort.lu/de/sport/coupe-de-luxembourg-topteams-lassen-sich-nicht-ueberraschen-57deda95ac730ff4e7f66992#

profooty33 27th September 2016 at 16.42 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.146.13.218 (talk) 15:44, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Absolutely nothing comes up in a Google News search. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 15:47, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

NOT TO DELETE - http://www.lequotidien.lu/football/cvetkovic-fola-expulse-pour-ses-chaussures/ ... REGULARLY PLAYS IN LUXEMBOURG PREMIER LEAGUE

google will give you all the articles if you search Alex Cvetkovic Fola — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 15:53, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Two days ago Alex Cvetkovic made an assist in the Luxembourg Premier League derby - quote from his manager Jeff Strasser (fmr Borussia Monchengladbach, Keiserslauteren, Metz etc etc)

"L’homme du match: Jeff Strasser Devant un onze en manque d’idées notamment offensives, le coaching de l’ancien joueur de Kaiserslautern s’est révélé payant puisque Cvetkovic a offert la première égalisation à Rodrigues avant qu’un autre nouveau venu, Tom Laterza, n’assure définitivement un point au Fola." .... you can read the whole article in the most respected and most circulated Luxembourg daily - http://www.wort.lu/fr/sport/ce-dimanche-a-esch-alzette-le-fola-arrache-le-nul-dans-un-derby-fou-57e82054ac730ff4e7f66f0b

Absolutely NOT TO DELETE - as Alex Cvetkovic has major interest already apparently from Sporting Lisbon and numerous other clubs on back of his EIGHT first team appearances this season alone/already on this top level i Luxembourg

profooty33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 16:13, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This debate is now finished as four entrants' arguments such as; 1. 'not enough coverage' - proven not right as google will give you over ten pages (dozens and dozens in total) of articles, photos and captions incl. videos of Alex Cvetkovic or 2. 'google has nothing on him' - proven wrong because if you google is name 'Alex Cvetkovic' plus his club 'Fola' you will on 'Alex Cvetkovic Fola' receive over a hundred entries and articles linked to his name and likeness Furthermore no. 3 - 'has not featured in the first team game' - is wrong as this season alone Alex Cvetkovic featured EIGHT times for the first eleven of his Luxembourg top Premier League club Finally. no. 4 - 'has not played in a top league' - not correct as Alex Cvetkovic plays exclusively for the first team oinly of CS Fola Esch in the Luxembourg National Division which is the highest premier league in the country (in addition to club playing UEFA Europa League this year and UEFA Champions League last year

The article about Alex Cvetkovic is therefore valid and 100% compliant with wikipedia standards and if you have something else to ad to it ie edit to make it even better please do so

Thank you

Yours,

profooty33

.... I will go now and set up a page of another smashing young player who currently plays abroad (and who played with Alex Cvetkovic in Arsenal FC for several months - the detail which is not even included in Cvetkovic's wikipedia, like I did not include Cvetkovic played for Manchester City u18 (9th February 2013) two years above his age at the time Man City tried to sign him etc etc or for Stoke City FC reserves (30th July 2013) when u16 against Warrington Town FC 1st team etc) as I do like to research and give chance to fantastic young sportsmen who are still teenagers lets don't forget and work very hard to achieve something in life ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 18:12, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove the deletion section from Alex Cvetkovic as we as contributors have more important things to do and improve through research than have an issue about a football player who seemingly deserves to have a page , thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 19:07, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - He has not played in a fully professional league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:25, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - clearly fails WP:NSPORT which requires him to have played in a fully pro league, which the Luxembourg league is not. No in-depth coverage in reliable independent sources. If Profooty33 thinks the player has received such coverage it would be helpful if he could point to some examples, rather than essentially saying "just Google him". Of the refs currently in the article, most are match reports which mention him in passing or even don't mention him at all. Only one is centred on him and that is just a transfer announcement, which is routine coverage and not enough to satisfy WP:GNG..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:25, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails NFOOTY as has not played senior international football nor played in a fully professional league. No indication that subject has garnered significant reliable coverage for any other achievements to satisfy GNG. Fenix down (talk) 08:05, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - all the data is on soccerway (which is used by other contributors here too) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:08, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cvetkovic played in the following matches; 25/09/16 vs Jeunesse d'Esch 11/09/16 vs UNA Strassen 21/08/16 vs Vitoria Rosport 15/08/16 vs Mondorf-les-Bains etc including the cup last week where he score two goals http://www.wort.lu/de/sport/coupe-de-luxembourg-topteams-lassen-sich-nicht-ueberraschen-57deda95ac730ff4e7f66992# ... for other issues UEFA and FIFA aproved charter about the league see Luxembourg football league system ... for his league see Luxembourg National Division

• Keep — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:15, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:NSPORT requires a player to have played in a fully-professional league. The Luxembourg league is only part-time, as confirmed by sources such as this one (which coincidentally refers to this player's club). Thus as long as his only first-team football is in Luxembourg (which it is, as far as I can see) he does not meet the requirement -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Cvetkovic is/was a FIFA registered transferred player and Luxembourg football league system is equal to any other UEFA and FIFA regulated leagues - why their clubs compete in highest professional Champions \league and Europa League competitions — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:29, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have noted that a number of my edits and additional data proving my claim have gone unsaved ... very dissapointed to see how much hostility is there towards a young professional footballer who plays in the highest level somewhere for a very good professional reason — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:34, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am in possession of a FIFA document logged officially on their database in July 2016 stating exactly what I have been saying all along about Alex Cvetkovic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:39, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That paricular FIFA document is also kept in Alex Cvetkovic' lawyers office at Harbottle&Lewis in London as well as together with his exclusive agent representative agreement with Nick Blair there — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:42, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• None of the above addresses the fact that he fails the two main Wikipedia policies which have been outlined above: matches played in a recognised full-time professional league, or in-depth coverage in reliable independent third-party sources. Unless he can be proved to pass either of those requirements, ramblings about unspecified FIFA documents being lodged with a lawyer and details of who his agent is really aren't going to make any difference, I'm afraid.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:44, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, further editing of Alex Cvetkovic will soon prove the additional reliable independent source but what concerns me is the nature of dismissal which cannot be considered as constructive - but makes me (and a number of other contributors who are yet to come forward to support my claims) very uneasy about the whole situation ... needless to say that I fully know why and where this comes from but will not entertain my knowledge about some particular reasons why the small and relatively insignificant page of some young talented player has to receive such hostile treatment — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is ample of evidence that suggest Alex Cvetkovic deserves the page - for instance he is eligible to play internationally for 6 countries incl. his England (for variety of reasons) but because he's still a teenager he has played for none as he wants to be capped eventually for a good reason

profooty33

• Keep — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.146.13.218 (talk) 09:06, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Struck the above !vote, as the IP is clearly the same person as Profooty33

• Keep

http://www.transfermarkt.de/alexander-cvetkovic/profil/spieler/446116 profooty33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 09:19, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is a reason why number of us who are in favour of article about Alec Cvetkovic to be kept are not coming forward independently either from our accounts or otherwise as clearly there is a definitive drive by some of you that no matter what argument is put forward you will demand that the article is removed .... most likely you will succeed but that is not the reason for us who are in favour of wikipedia being truly used by people not to then proceed further ...!

Alex Cvetovic is one of the brightest young teenage future stars in making alongside a few others he played with for years and whose pages are about to be made alongside his and if the research of us positive contributors is not awarded by either keeping our work or making it even better - than we will resort to publishing our research and findings elsewhere in more dominant mainstream media as no one can say for example that if there would be a young amazing up and coming scientist discovering this that and the other at the age of 19 - that some of you will refuse his page on wikipedia 'just because he or she has not yet featured in any major conference or gathering with other known greats and so what if he or she has discovered this that or the other if it cannot be found by click of the finger or a keyboard in a minute'

Wikipedia is something I always looked up as fresh, innovative and above all - public .... by all means let's remove any racist, fake and forged data - but let's don't forget we are one community and the community which also would like to be quoted ourselves on something we have discovered before anyone else did and not just act as some second rated 'copy/paste unit' who will compile something that does not even require compiling as it was published was before we even knew about it.

Why we/I/myself in particular would like to see our work stay - to be kept - as it contains only the proven facts and is not reliant on the opinion as to whether is this that or the other

The page about Alex Cvetkovic contains fact only - true and proven facts - fantastic facts in fact! Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 10:12, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have noted that somebody removed Cvetkovic's goals and appearances for Wigan - reason stated 'as goals and caps for reserves don't count' - ?! There is an official (currently called U23 league) in which professional players play ..... although Reserves, Cvetkovic was on a professional contract only whilst at Wigan so it would count towards his senior career and caps as well as goals were clearly marked as Wigan Athletic reserves/ac meaning reserves and academy for which Cvetkovic in total combined played 33 times and scored combined 8 goals .... however, I will not interfere with that as it is an interpretation - and everyone has the right to express himself so too the editor in question.

Having said that - absolutely alarming is the fact that several objections as to apparently 'not fitting wikipedia rules and regulations' were bluntly overlooked in the very procedure of this debate - and that is - that on Monday morning I have found my built page about Alex Cvetkovic blanked and all the contents deleted - prior to following same rules and regulations of wikipedia of how only an alert could be raised about the article with clear time frame for it to be remedied (if so required after the debate).

By arbitrarily deleting an article (for which I had no backup copy) - and debating only the hybrid attempt by myself to be rebuilt subsequently which now is being discussed - the very essence of wikipedia was ignored as my research and the subsequent article should have never been deleted prior to discussion.

There are now only bare facts left in an article about Alex Cvetkovic which should be kept as a matter of ethics at least ..... as those facts left (as well as those provided here) are sufficient enough evidence to warrant keeping the page grow as that young player will only provide more evidence through the media which is worth considering. profooty33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 13:10, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:678:405:9100:D1E8:57B5:2C30:393B (talk) 13:55, 28 September 2016 (UTC) — 2A02:678:405:9100:D1E8:57B5:2C30:393B (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Keep - this article is authentic and the player deserves to have a page written about him — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.31.111 (talk) 16:17, 28 September 2016 (UTC) — 95.144.31.111 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Please state which policy this player meets Spiderone 17:04, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete fails WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG. - Yellow Dingo (talk) 01:50, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as it does not fail WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG but is an article in expansion and the existing details there warrant inclusion - why it was the initial action of deleting all the previous research prior to this debate and without any warning and leaving Alex Cvetkovic page blank on early Monday morning failing and still fails every single wikipedia rule, statute and ethics. We cannot discriminate against other country's athletes just on basis of them 'not being incorporated as in our sporting organisations charters' ie we cannot just dismiss other country's footballers just because their FA has a unique way of organising leagues (if so) as the very essence of pure facts namely concerning Alex Cvetkovic - who played all the youth leagues in Holland initially between age of 5 and 9 against all the 'Feyenoords and Ajaxes' week in week out before being spotted by Tony Carr MBE at the age of 9 and brought back to England to sign for West Ham, later on the player signed to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. after that Manchester United F.C. after that was one of the few youngest ever professionals in England signing a pro with Wigan only to be seen now as after already being FIFA registered and transferred player abroad playing regular 1st team football for a club that in their last UEFA Europa League match beat Aberdeen F.C. in July of this year and twice prior to that in recent yers fetured in the UEFA Champions League - having Cvetkovic transferred from abroad as they see it to as one of their best players although still a teenager - helps them progress even further on international scene - we cannot negate the fact that this is about a great young athlete - nor we can ignore that some of the objections come from the angle 'luxembourg is not worthy of considering seriously' which is contrary to wikipedia's teaching as every top level success of anything in any however small or big entity deserves respect and mention.

We cannot randomly discriminate but incorporate ... ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 07:46, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to add further comments, but please stop attempting to cast multiple "keep" !votes -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

When I log in that vote comes only as an intro before my comment although the debate is not reliant on casting votes but the substance - but I do appreciate there is no need to have that word before any further comments. profooty33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 11:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:10, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Having not played in a fully professional league or received much in the way of coverage, WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG both failed to be met. Bakilas (talk) 15:44, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your concerns when it comes to printed editions but this is an expanding article, novelty etc and we cannot delete an article which is valid and rewarding simply because the athlete fully plays for the 1st team in a top league that is not as per our liking!? - ; why don't we then delete every player who is playing in Luxembourg National Division - from wikipedia - 'The National Division (Luxembourgish: Nationaldivisioun, French: Division Nationale, German: Nationaldivision) is the highest football league in Luxembourg. Until 2011, it was known as the BGL Ligue, after the Luxembourg Football Federation managed to seal a sponsorship deal with Fortis. Before 2006, it contained twelve teams, but it expanded to fourteen for the 2006–07 season, and it has maintained this number since.' .... why don't we then also delete all amateur boxers for example or any Olympian or anyone from wikipedia who does not feature in a 'fully professional league' that pays as much as for example English Premier League does ....?! Alex Cvetkovic has a great CV and is a top young ENGLISH player playing abroad like many other athletes from either Luxembourg, Iceland, other small countries with their own specific umbrella sporting organisations etc - Cvetkovic plays regularly for the first team of the top club which for the last four years also regularly feature in both UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League - is that not 'fully professional'? Please consider that this is not about some young player but it is above all - about us, contributors, trying to expand on something that is not only new but also good ... there are thousands of suspect entries on wikipedia - Alex Cvetkovic might have not done in his teenage years some extraordinary things but is up and coming top young footballer ..... just a small page on wikipedia that is expanding .... ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Fails the subject-specific guideline WP:FOOTY because Mr Cvetkovic hasn't played first-team football for a club from a fully professional league or in a senior international match. No evidence of his receiving enough independent non-routine coverage to pass the general notability guideline. No prejudice against recreation if and when either of these criteria are met. While I understand the frustrations felt by an editor whose hard work is likely to disappear because their subject isn't notable enough – I'm guessing we've all been there – I'm afraid extended rants about it won't get them anywhere. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:47, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are several thousand footballers on very glossy wikipedia pages right now and have been there for years (such as, I dont know, for example Dan Thompson (footballer) and thousands similar) who never ever not just did not play in any top league but never even came close to sign for West Ham United, Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester United, Wigan Athletic and finally UEFA Europa League last year's Luxembourg top division Champions like Alex Cvetkovic By virtue of the fact that Cvetkovic's pages was immediately erased on Monday and various small technicality details including mention of a 'rant' - which was never a rant but only a relatively polite argument so no further details and naming reasons why Cvetkovic left one of his previous clubs (which is evidented and filed with the authorities) are publicly displayed (which will not happen for as long as his derserved page is let to grow) - I can only conclude that his achievement cannot and must not be included on wikipedia ... reason being the very proof of how determined initial reaction to his article was - immediate deletion and only after bare facts were rebuilt on his page - so called debate commenced ... Of course I am not happy - and somewhat sad (as I was preparing a series of pages with similar teenagers) that in case of deletion of Alex Cvetkovic article I/we/the team who has in depth knowledge of the full circumstances surrounding Alex Cvetkovic career will be forced to take this further as it is obvious that whatever 'project football' some of the objectors represent is is evident that thousands of non league players who never ever held a badge of a league club on their shirt are happily allowed on wikipedia - but Alex Cvetkovic is not.

I am also happy that upon deletion (if so) we could then freely go to mainstream media and elaborate this further alongside all necessary steps as we cannot have one set of rules for one single entrant and no rules for thousands of others on wikipedia whom no one ever objected inclusion. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 12:40, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your walls of text are really not helpful. Can I suggest that you refrain from further comment unless you are providing sources that would indicate GNG. Alex Cvetovic, fails the subject-specific guideline and there is no indication of any form of significant coverage on the player. The references in the article are nothing more than match reports on clubs he has played for. I see no evidence that there is a singled substantial article in existence dedicated to the player. Fenix down (talk) 13:00, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are not "thousands of non league players who never ever held a badge of a league club on their shirt" on Wikipedia, that is 100% untrue. Making blatantly false statements like that won't help your case -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:07, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We will provide sources - please remove the 'deletion warning' from Alex Cvetkovic page as it is damaging to his team's current communications with two major European clubs interested in him, thank you (and I have no reason to write any more 'walls' as everything is explained from our point of view - why it is ethical and professional to keep the article about Alex Cvetkovic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 13:12, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The AfD template will remain in place, as is Wikipedia procedure. Frankly, it's not our problem what impact it may (allegedly) have on his contract negotiations. And the above comment seems to confirm what I suspect a lot of people deduced a long time ago, namely that you are the player's agent or in some other way connected to him and are using this article to promote him, which is a violation of Wikipedia's guidelines on promoting subjects.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:59, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is not fair what you're saying about me now; you have a problem with a top young player, you have a problem with me who created an article - yes I do know Cvetkovic's agent and he is a great guy, a lawyer too, and I was preparing a series on wikipedia about English teenage players abroad inspired by a twitter account called something similar 'english players abroad' and there on one of the tweets in the summer I saw 'Alex Cvetkovic signs to Fola champions Luxembourg ...' something like that - https://twitter.com/englishabroad1/status/761154234444345344

To be honest, once you've deleted the article arbitrarily on Monday I did feel all this is pointelss Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profooty33 (talk • contribs) 14:13, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for sharing that Tweet, however the fact that somebody Tweeted about him doesn't in any way address the fundamental problems with the article, which have been pointed out to you many times, namely that to be eligible for an article on Wikipedia, a player must have either:

1. Played in a league recognised as fully professional - he has not played in any such league
2. Been the primary subject of in-depth coverage in reliable, independent sources (newspapers or major media outlets or similar - "in-depth" coverage means that the subject is the main focus of the piece i.e. match reports in which he is mentioned in passing are not sufficient) - there is no evidence that this is the case

If there are sources available which meet the second point, please provide them and there's every chance the article could yet be kept, but none seem to have come forward so far -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:39, 30 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per the WP:NFOOTBALL failure. Number 57 20:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - He hasn't received significant coverage nor played in a fully pro league match. Therefore, the article clearly fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. – Michael (talk) 23:42, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as clearly player mwets the criteria, he regularly plays first team football in the premier league of luxembourg and the fact that luxemboug premier league is not included in Project Football is not the players fault and he regularly receives a lot of coverage — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:678:405:9100:4C30:CD03:24CA:9F76 (talk) 09:14, 4 October 2016 (UTC) — 2A02:678:405:9100:4C30:CD03:24CA:9F76 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.