The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado#District 3. I know this closure will make some editors dissatisfied. But I am persuaded that, despite the close election in 2022, Frisch should not at this time have a stand-alone article. A redirect preserves the content of the article should circumstances change in the 2024 election. Feel free to Merge any relevant content to the Redirect target. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:15, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Frisch[edit]

Adam Frisch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Only notability is as an unsuccessful candidate for office (and that is what all the media coverage of him focuses on); should be redirected to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado#District 3 (I did this and got reverted by Stopasianhate, so I am taking this to AfD). Elli (talk | contribs) 00:22, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and United States of America. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:22, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete "A Cook PVI" means nothing to the average reader. Sourcing is primary (from their website) or a rehash of polls. Seems promotional for the election with technical info from campaigns. Elected to Aspen City Council and chairing Pitkin County's financial review committee are not notable, not seeing GNG. Oaktree b (talk) 00:48, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak redirect/merge, essentially WP:BLP1E, possible to merge some content to the noted election district page. Andre🚐 00:59, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I see that in these edits by deletion nominator at 2022 US HR elections in Colorado page, about Adam Frisch, that they merely delinked Adam Frisch. They did not attempt to make any merge of material, it was just a complete dismissal with edit summary saying non-notable. And at the Adam Frisch page, they merely redirected. That was either wrong to do without discussion, or a Bold action, and I am glad that User:Stopasianhate restored that. I will now restore the link at 2022 US HR elections page. User:Elli, did you remove any other inbound links to the article? Since the article does exist (again), I would like to see that any such inbound links are restored now. Thanks.--Doncram (talk,contribs) 02:33, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. This is not just any failed candidate in just any failed race. The election was extremely narrow, it was too close to call for many days (weeks?) after polls closed, and it was a race against extremely prominent Lauren Boebert who had made very brash statements, and who is one of the prominent election deniers in American politics of today. It was an extremely close vote in an extremely close year, and it seems likely to be re-run as a race in 2024. It was major news, nationally and probably also internationally, that Boebert was in trouble in the race and about who is Frisch. I am sure, yes, that most coverage about Adam Frisch did have to do with this election which I personally think suffices, but also he did previously hold local office, and there's more known about him (including some negative-seeming stuff that was apparently saved up for release and coverage just before the election, which I think is not adequately covered in the current article). I may comment more about specific sources, but in general it does not matter that he lost, what matters is coverage existing, and as I stated he was in national and I think international news far more than any average US rep candidate. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 02:33, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado#District 3. If he runs for another office and wins, the page an be restored. Novemberjazz 03:23, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Article can/should be developed to cover how this was in fact the very closest race in the election cycle nation-wide, that it was nearly an extraordinary upset against a heavy favorite, that it involved unusual endorsement of a Democrat by a longterm Republican, that Boebert benefited from redistricting that gave her a 7 percent increase of republicans vs. democrats in the district. Sources not used in the article yet include:
  • New York Times: [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/us/politics/lauren-boebert-colorado-frisch.html November 2022: "Mr. Frisch, a Democratic businessman and former Aspen, Colo., city councilman, had put up a fierce challenge to Ms. Boebert, 35, who was seen as a heavy favorite entering the race in Colorado’s Republican-leaning Third Congressional District."
  • "Adam Frisch Interview: As the world watches Colorado’s District 3, Frisch talks ballot curing, voter turnout and whether he’s ‘Democratic enough’" by Anthony Cotton, Nov. 15, 2022, CPR News (radio I believe, and then also published in The Gazette (Colorado Springs) and likely elsewhere)
  • Who is Adam Frisch in Denver Post, not yet cited, different than similarly-titled CPR article of same day which is cited in the article
  • Democrat Adam Frisch to attend orientation for Congress while awaiting results of race against Lauren Boebert, in California's Mercury News ... that was November 16; Mercury News covered election resolution too in December 13.
  • Frisch files FEC forms for possible ’24 US House run, NBC11 News
  • USA Today of 12/1/2022 and USA Today also of 12/1/2022, neither in article
  • Adam Frisch weighs rematch with Boebert as House recount nears conclusion in Jewish Insider
  • Democrat Adam Frisch files for rematch in 2024 against Lauren Boebert after conceding in tight Colorado race. In The Independent, at least in its U.S. edition, maybe international too
  • Can an Atypical Democrat Unseat an Extremist Republican? In Colorado’s 3rd Congressional District, the Democratic challenger is trying to defeat incumbent Lauren Boebert by downplaying his party affiliation. in Bloomberg

These national and/or international reliable sources are just a few of sources available beyond the 18 citations already in the article. Some indicating continuing acts towards a 2024 race, not covered in the article.

--Doncram (talk,contribs) 03:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have to disagree per Wikipedia:Existence ≠ Notability with specific focus on the section "don't create an article on a news story covered in 109 newspapers." These are all largely the same news story. Mpen320 (talk) 02:08, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Candidacy does not qualify under WP:NPOL, which requires the subject to be elected to an international, national, or (for countries with federal or similar systems of government) state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels. The notable story is the election, not Frisch himself. Redirect to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado#District 3. Rhadow (talk) 03:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Rhadow, but there is substantial story here, valid by wp:GNG. Which is not covered at all in that article, and is too much to merge into the 2022 US HR Colorado elections article. Honestly asking here: where should this GNG be covered in Wikipedia? Also, much of the coverage is about Adam Frisch, personally, and also their unusual strategy/style in running against one of the prominent fire-brand-type Republicans, not merely polling or appearances or whatever that is stuff of "mere" election coverage (which can have merit too). I will look into wp:NPOL, but wp:GNG trumps that and all other shortcut guidelines on notability in various topic areas. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 04:08, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So I agree with you that there notable story (your words). It seems best to me to include it in this article, but where do you want the notable story covered, instead? Your "redirect" vote is for deletion of all material. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 04:12, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any relevant material can be included at the article on the election. Elli (talk | contribs) 07:11, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I stand by my assertion that Frisch fails WP:NPOL. Consider a similar discussion at Rahul Chimanbhai Mehta. My words "notable story" apply to the election, not Frisch's biography, which is not uncommon for people who live in Aspen. His campaign should be copied and pasted before redirect. If it is the sense of the majority that Frisch meets WP:GNG, then I will abide without rancor. Rhadow (talk) 16:23, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for replying. To be clear about your position, could you please change your !vote to "Merge" rather than "Redirect". In words, u r saying that is what you want. Labelling it as "Redirect" is different, and the difference matters. Sticking with "Redirect" suggests doubling down, that u really mean there is nothing material to support anything (contrary to your words here). --Doncram (talk,contribs) 01:18, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You do realize you can add that content to the election article now, right? There's no need for a whole thorough merge process, just add what is worth adding. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:35, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer "Keep", in part because i think shoehorning everything about Frisch before, during, and since the election into just the election article will not really work. And, it will be better for the election article if extra stuff is not shoehorned in, including because partisan editors might fairly object it ends up covering more about Frisch than Boebert (because Boebert has a separate article and stuff about her won't be awkwardly forced into the wrong place). --Doncram (talk,contribs) 05:56, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, WP:NPOL says, Just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability, although such people can still be notable if they meet the general notability guideline. He satisfies WP:SIGCOV with state, national (NYT, AP, WaPO) and international (BBC) coverage by major media outlets. I've deleted primary sources and added more secondary sources to the article. Victoria (tk) 04:06, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• RedirectMerge and redirect to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado. All non-local coverage relates to his candidacy, which is not presumed notable and also covered in 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado. Outside of that, Adam Frisch is a local officeholder for whom GNG is not met.--Mpen320 (talk) 23:23, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Please see my reply to another "Redirect" !voter above. To any closer, i submit that these "redirect" !votes seem unreasonable and should be dismissed, as it seems possible these !votes represent gaming in which participants overstate a position. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 01:23, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I changed my vote to merge/redirect in light of your above comments to preserve the content that has been collected. I also think the gaming accusation is uncalled for just because we disagree on the subject. Mpen320 (talk) 02:16, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks Mpen320 for responding and reconsidering your !vote. My wording could have been better, but about gaming I stated that it was a possibility. The gaming strategy would be for a rabid deletionist (not saying you are one) to state "Delete" even though they knew "merge" was better, to more totally ensure that "redirect" or "merge" would occur. Note if the overall consensus was to "Merge", that I think there's some reasonable chance it would be retained in fact as a separate article as if "Keep" was the decision, because when some unfortunate person goes to try to implement a difficult merge, they could reasonably try and fail and decide to keep it separate. I happen to have noticed recently that a number of "merge" AFD decisions in which i participated were later implemented as either "keep" or as "redirect" (which i wasn't happy about seeing, but technically at least sometimes it is reasonable for an implementer to do that). I admit that I did say "please dismiss" as if I was judging your !vote definitely was gaming, though, unfairly, and I apologize for that and for offending you. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 05:48, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment On the surface, this should be an easy merge and redirect to to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado. All discussion about how close the election was in 2022, the strategies and tactics, should be covered in the page about the election. That said, we must note that it is possible that the subject could be notable about his service on the city council in Aspen and as a business owner (meeting GNG independent of the subject's candidaacy). The question is, then, could we write an reliably sourced article about his tenure on the council, focused on the subject's votes and positions taken on the council. I am not sold, but the subject is mentioned in Jenny Stuber's book, Aspen and the American Dream: How One Town Manages Inequality in the Era of Supergentrification, which overlaps with the subject's tenure in office, and there are several (pre-2019) articles in the Aspen Times, which are interesting, but the subject is not featured in any national or international coverage before the congressional campaign. --Enos733 (talk) 04:29, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for coming in with the source and the reasonable comment. Are the Stuber source and the others available online? They do sound relevant. You're not saying it outright, but if the subject was "nearly" Wikipedia-notable beforehand, then I think it is reasonable to say that the election coverage tips it over to being notable. Also, not covered in the article or much mentioned here is some additional coverage since the election, not properly covered in the election article, e.g. about the person's activity since the election and their filing relating to 2024 election and recent statements of what they're doing towards possibly running in 2024. Post-election activity, perhaps not properly covered in the election article, also includes their perhaps-unusual-nowadays conciliatory approach to the election recount process, in which they chose to concede far before others would have. Honestly I think it would be hard to shoehorn everything into the election article alone, so I personally think "Keep" is a better outcome here already. And if the decision here is "Merge", I personally expect there will be additional drips of info coming out, any one of which could justify someone restoring the article and expanding it with the one more drip. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 05:48, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - this guy meets GNG. He's not just a typical failed congressional candidate. Iamreallygoodatcheckers^t@lk 04:19, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge/redirect All coverage is in the context of the election. While the race being close and his opponent being prominent gave him more attention, there is not lasting significant as a local councilmember that warrants a standalone article at this time. That may change if he runs again. Reywas92^Talk 22:53, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as I see all opinions expressed here, Redirect, Merge, Keep and Delete. That usually results in a No Consensus which makes no one happy so I'm choosing to relist this discussion a week.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge/Redirect with the CO3 race - race deserves more elaboration than any old congressional race article, as the race he was involved in was notable for being so close, and the resulting media attention surrounding him justifies an expansion of the article. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 01:23, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete or Merge/Redirect: Fails to meet notability, doesn't merit a single article as yet, maybe in the future with more notability. -- StarryNightSky11 ☎ 01:17, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. For the reasons stated in the nomination. BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 04:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment If not kept, this should be redirected to 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in Colorado#District 3 as a usual and appropriate outcome for a candidate for the US House (see WP:POLOUTCOMES). --Enos733 (talk) 04:43, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep. Struck my comment above. After reading the keep comments I think this weakly meets GNG. Andre🚐 18:28, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment The post-2022-election content has just grown: Frisch has officially announced, and it is being covered, that he is in the race for the seat in 2024. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 04:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, here is some of that coverage of 2/14/2013 etc., and one post-election piece of 11/9/2022:

1) 2/14 announcement, press release type info reported in numerous outlets: Fox 31 (Denver?), CNN, by Shania Shelton (but not much more than press release info); I am not linking CBS, NBC, other Colorado or national examples.

2) More substantial articles of 2/14 & successive days include:

• "Adam Frisch announces another run against U.S. Rep. Lauren Boebert in 3rd Congressional District", Denver Post article by CONRAD SWANSON
• "Why Adam Frisch thinks he can beat ‘angertainment artist’ Lauren Boebert in a 2024 election rematch", The Independent interview by Sheila Flynn (at least in US edition)
• Associated Press JESSE BEDAYN, as published in News Times (of Danbury, Connecticut)

One of those reported he carries over $365k from 2022 campaign, more than Boebert carries over.

3) 2/15 Pueblo Chieftan reports on first campaign event, Frisch reports more than $250,000 raised in first 24 hrs. [Also about $: "Campaign finance records show that Frisch received more than $4.4 million in contributions from individuals in 2022." ]

4) A post-election article, of November 9, Colorado Sun article David Krause, Nov 9, 2022 "Meet Adam Frisch, the candidate who shocked Lauren Boebert and his fellow Democrats" includes so-far-unused biographic details and more:

• "The former Aspen city councilman logged more than 23,000 miles and attended hundreds of community events in the 3rd Congressional District"
• His being close to 3 terrorism incidents: "He was on the 100th floor of the World Trade Center during the terrorist bombing in 1993, and was working in midtown Manhattan during the 2001 attack. (He also finished the 2013 Boston Marathon about 20 minutes before the bomb went off near the finish line.)"
• other possibly useable bio details ... he was bussed to a predominantly black school in high school, e.g.

--Doncram (talk,contribs) 23:34, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.