Hi, I saw that you added a clarification needed tag to the Muhammad Ali article. What is it about that sentence that you find unclear?--Jahalive (talk) 23:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, the website in question seems dubious, like a fan-page for the guru. Ottomanist (talk) 23:20, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that, you're probably right...Ottomanist (talk) 23:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes we have different opinion about the arguments you presented when you deleted the map of the territory of Albania in 1431 from the section about Ottoman period in history of Albania. I think that your arguments are not valid and explained why. Instead to follow dispute resolution process you personally attacked me, edit warred violating three revert rule (diff1, diff2 and diff3) and repeated the same arguments without convincing anyone.
Since only two of us participated in the discussion on the talk page about the map of Albania in 1431 I followed the advice of Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and asked for the third opinion.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:58, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Sure. I think the matter is closer to drawing to a close. - Ottomanist (talk) 22:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I'm calling time on the disruption you are causing around here. I have reported you here [1]. Athenean (talk) 19:31, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Re your message; I think the diffs speak for themselves here, and your pointing fingers isn't really helping you. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Granted, but you must understand how your comment looks - and how other editors might (naturally) be inclined to accept your default position. It's your call, though a topic ban seems way over the top, especially considering that I have worked *my arse off* to sort out other pages and sections and that the users who have reported me are hardly immune from criticism themselves. - Ottomanist (talk) 01:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I regret that the title of this thread is "Time's up". I actually invite you to change it, since it's your own talk page. Time's never up for someone like you, who challenges the status quo and wants to bring good sources to rewrite bad parts of wikipedia. In general we have plenty of crap in Balkan related articles which talk about the "Turkish yoke", dictated by political needs of the early 20th century when the history of Albanian lands was being written. Unfortunately administrator "Sandstein" banned me long time ago to contribute to WP:AE, unless I was the party to initiate a complaint or defend myself from one, so I cannot help with saying my opinion on Athenean's wikilawyering there. He just wants to live in peace with Wikipedia's history as written in 1950's Greece. Actually that history's time's up, not yours. Bolerodancer (talk) 23:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your support. The said user seems to be threatening and stalking you, I actually find that quite distressing - Ottomanist (talk) 01:41, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Notice to administrators: In a March 2010 decision, the Committee held that "Administrators are prohibited from reversing or overturning (explicitly or in substance) any action taken by another administrator pursuant to the terms of an active arbitration remedy, and explicitly noted as being taken to enforce said remedy, except: (a) with the written authorization of the Committee, or (b) following a clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors at a community discussion noticeboard (such as WP:AN or WP:ANI). If consensus in such discussions is hard to judge or unclear, the parties should submit a request for clarification on the proper page. Any administrator that overturns an enforcement action outside of these circumstances shall be subject to appropriate sanctions, up to and including desysopping, at the discretion of the Committee."
Under the authority of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, as incorporated by WP:ARBMAC#Standard discretionary sanctions, and for the reasons stated in this AE thread, you are hereby banned indefinitely from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Balkans, broadly construed across all namespaces. You may appeal this topic ban at WP:AE after six months, and every six months thereafter. You may also appeal this topic ban to AE once within six months of its imposition, or to the Arbitration Committee at any time. T. Canens (talk) 05:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
That is just Frederick's argument, it isn't definitive. You could use similar arguments to relate Kosovo in the Balkan Wars, Kosovo in World War One, Kosovo in World War Two and their relevance to the formation of the Republic of Kosovo, yet they aren't mentioned either; even though they're arguably much more important events leading to the formation of Kosovo than the mediaeval-Ottoman period. What you have to remember is that it is an introduction, not an article on the history of Kosovo. Besides Mediaeval-Ottoman Kosovo is only indirectly relevant unlike the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Kosovo War which are directly relevant to the formation of the Republic of Kosovo. We should only include a brief history which is directly relevant to the article in the introduction. Also I don't appreciate the personal attack, I will report you next time; consider this to be a warning. Enjoy your topic ban too btw. Regards IJA (talk) 15:50, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I am not going to continue a discussion with someone who believes ww1 or the balkan wars were more important events in the historical trajectory of the people who inhabit the republic of kosovo than 500-odd years of incorporation into the ottoman empire. that's both absurd and against logic. good day. - Ottomanist (talk) 01:36, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Even if that's a truism, the fact remains that 500-years of incorporation into the Empire brought the long-lasting changes to the Albanians (religion, culture and all those things that come along with those phenomena), who now make up over 90% of the Republic. Oh yeah, the Ottomans also influenced the Serbs, Greeks and Bulgars, though nationalist and then communist-era historians were loath to admit it. -Ottomanist (talk) 10:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
@IJA, the idea that Albanians only became a majority in Kosovo at the turn of the twentieth century goes against all non-Albanian, non-Serbian scholarly accounts and is not even worth responding to. I doubt you study in a western institution, because if you did, you would be exposed to such literature. See Mullah Idriz Gjillani, Hasan Prishtina, Isa Boletini, among others for the second part of your question, which again shows your utter lack of knowledge on the subject.
@Evlekis, I would suggest the works of Kitromilides (1996) who looks at the biography of Orthodox priest Dapontes in the 18th century (among others) who's Itinerary is an almost complete record of Balkan geography. We learn how there was a shared sense of time (in the Ottoman period among Orthodox peoples) defined by the ecclesiastical calendar, time revolving around a succession feast days in the Orthodox calendar; Saint’s days etc. Also crucial is the idea of legitimate Ottoman rule that helped to create a ‘shared vision of the world’ among Orthodox Christians in the Balkans in the 18th century. Early Serb uprisings were against warlords and arbitrary janissaries, not the Sultan. Only later did the uprisings take on a nationalist discourse (and hence constructed many myths about Kosovo so as to legitimise Serb expansion). - Ottomanist (talk) 23:57, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
IJA, you need to learn the difference between primary and secondary sources: the sources you're referring to are not 'primary', but rely on the collection of statistics from secondary sources. And again, mainstream academia accepts an Albanian majority existed in Kosovo from before the Ottoman conquests. (your cites, moreover, only refer to the 19 century). That's lesson one for a buddying young historian like your self. Second point, the problem with Balkan historians in the past has been the fact that they didn't enter Ottoman archives, nor did they read/understand Ottoman. That's beginning to change. Academics writing in English began this process in the past twenty-to-thirty-years and many fruitful works have come as a result.
To Evlekis, the claim that the Kosovo of the 20th century only took shape in 1881, coupled with your claim that 'no records existed back then' is very ignorant and doesn't merit a response to be perfectly honest. It is well known that the Ottomans kept detailed tax records of everything from number of households to number of mosques. These records have been used by non-nationalist historians to prove Albanians were a majority in 'Kosovo' (regardless of its fluid and changing borders). Moreover, areas like Toplica were almost fully cleansed of their Albanian populations, which means dozens of thousands of people were 'ethnically cleansed' from areas now totally Serb, something nationalists of your ilk fail to ever mention. Ottomanist (talk) 23:22, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Notice to administrators: In a March 2010 decision, the Committee held that "Administrators are prohibited from reversing or overturning (explicitly or in substance) any action taken by another administrator pursuant to the terms of an active arbitration remedy, and explicitly noted as being taken to enforce said remedy, except: (a) with the written authorization of the Committee, or (b) following a clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors at a community discussion noticeboard (such as WP:AN or WP:ANI). If consensus in such discussions is hard to judge or unclear, the parties should submit a request for clarification on the proper page. Any administrator that overturns an enforcement action outside of these circumstances shall be subject to appropriate sanctions, up to and including desysopping, at the discretion of the Committee."
Hi Ottomanist, we are a team of researchers interested in the editing dynamics on different language Wikipedias regarding the topic of Kosovo. We are looking for users who have edited and discussed articles about this topic, and who would be willing to be interviewed for the purpose of this research project. The project is approved by the Wikimedia Foundations´ Research Committee and you can find more information on this meta-wiki page. Research results will be published under open access and your participation would be much appreciated. If you would like to participate you can reach us at interwikiresearch@gmail.com and we will set up an interview in a way that best suits your needs. Pbilic (talk) 11:06, 3 July 2013 (UTC)