GA Reassessment[edit]

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Though this was reviewed just this year for GA, I am somewhat surprised it passed and identify a number of problems with the GA review. I mean no disrespect to Some Dude From North Carolina, but a GA is about more than just copyedits. Fundamental concerns such as neutrality and completeness must be weighed as well. With that in mind, below are my GA comments.

General

In summary, I have concerns over GA criteria 1b(lead), 2b(source use), 3a&b(broad coverage), 4(NPOV), and 6(Illustrated), among other general errors. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 01:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • The suggestion about removing trivia are fine with me. Or perhaps placing it under Personal Life if appropriate. Does Wikipedia have a policy about not including trivia in Good Articles?
  • I am unclear on why citing books would broaden the coverage. Is there something the books have covered that the current sources have not? I have not read either suggestion. One was mentioned in a FAIR article: "The last story that the Times published on the subject was an opinion piece by business columnist Joe Nocera, who explored the “darker narrative about Donziger” (9/22/14)—a narrative that Bloomberg business writer Paul Barrett laid out in his book Law of the Jungle. Like Barrett, Nocera depicted Donziger as a “rogue lawyer willing to do virtually anything to win".
  • "by offering investors" : investors are people who invest. It seems fairly clear. The source says “Donziger and his team, with FDA support, devised an innovative solution to fund the case, offering investors a tiny portion of any eventual settlement".
  • Quote box: happy for the quote to be moved to a suitable place in the body. He may not be a reliable source for the claim about detention being unusual, but his comment is notable within his own bio. His comment is consistent with other comments about his detention provided in the Reactions sections. Elsewhere we mention the maximum sentence for his offence is six months so readers should be able to draw their own conclusions (“Lawyer's Rights Watch Canada points out that Donziger has been under house arrest for longer than the six–month maximum sentence that contempt of court carries” etc.).
  • “the reception section does not at all match the range of opinions in the press. As written, it is almost entirely pro-Donziger, which ignores the fairly large anti-Donziger camp” : If you provide the references, the content can be added. As noted by FAIR, there has been a general media silence about the case, so sources covering Chevron’s viewpoint may be hard to find outside the WSJ, from which we have used four separate Chevron-friendly articles.
  • Reactions section : the chap from North Carolina suggested rewriting this section to remove excessive use of the phraseology “In July 2020 …” etc. This has not been done yet and would improve the readability. We could also try gluing the various reactions together with some linking text.
  • “The lead seems very pro-Donziger”. You are probably referring to the final part of the lead which gives various reactions, all favourable to Donziger. I agree this is excessive and could be reduced to a few sentences, one summarising support positions and one summarising support for Chevron.
  • "I’ve made some general copyedits”: The copy edits are fine with me except that “released of liability” perhaps should be “released from liability”.
  • “Amazonwatch is Donziger's own website”: Amazon Watch has not been used as a source in the article. Afaict there is no official connection between Donziger and Amazon Watch. This is my comment on the talk page: “[Donziger] is not listed as a member of its staff or board. His name does not appear in Amazon Watch's wiki and Amazon Watch does not appear in Donziger's wiki. Amazon Watch has supported Donziger's law suit on behalf of the Ecuadorians but has also done other work related to the protection of the Amazon”. An editor did quote one source as saying the two were “allied” without an explanation of what that means. Amazon watch is certainly supportive of Donziger’s lawsuit so is not a neutral observer.
  • Class action against Chevron: The article Lago Agrio oil field has detailed info about the lawsuit. However, expanding the section would be fine.
  • “on closer inspection, it does actually look to be CC liscensed at the video itself”: what do you mean? Is there a problem with the licensing of the photo?
  • “it probably wouldn't be that hard to get a picture of Judge Kaplan either”: Rightho, although his wiki does not contain an image. I looked for images related to Donziger in the Commons but could not find anything unfortunately.
  • “The use of tweets as sources should almost always be avoided, with the exception of the tweet for his birthday”: Agree.
  • “Why is "Donzigerdefense.com" an external link?”: It is obviously relevant,. It is also partisan. What is the problem? Do you suggest removing it or maybe adding an equivalent link to Chevron’s defence website?
  • “wait, how could that be? Kaplan is a SDNY judge”: That is not a mistake. It is apparently allowed and is one of the odd things about the case. It is mentioned in a number of sources.
Burrobert (talk) 06:04, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • There is a policy against trivia in general, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trivia sections
  • Books provide a more in-depth overview of most subjects, but I guess they are not mandatory so long as the article is brought up to par with other sources
  • I've fixed the investors wording
  • I stand by that Donziger's own quote about himself is inappropriate, or at least definitely the last sentence.
  • https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/opinion/joe-nocera-behind-the-chevron-case.html?searchResultPosition=4, the most relevant section reads "What’s worse is that the Ecuadorians who live in the affected areas have still not seen any help, 20 years later. A lawyer with a more realistic view of the case might have been able to get a reasonable settlement early on. A lawyer who had played by the rules might have even won a judgment that would now be enforceable in an American court. “Donziger disserved his clients and his cause” by the way he conducted himself during the trial, Cassel now says." that being Doug Cassel, Notre Dame law prof.
  • I would also use the currently used Forbes source in the reception. I would also suggest reading some of Forbe's other treatments of the subject, of which there are at least 4 others.
  • My bad, instead of AmazonWatch I actually meant the "FreeDonziger" website, which I doubt has editorial oversight to make it a Wikipedia:Reliable sources
  • Re: the image. There doesn't appear to be an issue with licensing after all, since the YouTube video is Creative commons licensed.
I should note that technically I am not required to make any changes to the article. I am more than willing to help out to some degree, but as the editor who wants this article to be a GA, the bulk of the work is on you or others willing to help you. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 17:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Below is a summary of what action has been taken regarding the points raised in the request for a GA2 review. In my opinion, some of the issues raised are "in the eye of the beholder" so would be best discussed on the article's talk page as they don't necessarily relate to article quality.

Burrobert (talk) 14:07, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Burrobert You are more than welcome to open talk page discussion on the issues you think should be discussed. But at the end of the day, they do need to be reworked in some way. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! 23:49, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]