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Deletion Discussions, Moves, Merges, Press, etc.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: Keep, 27 June 2021, see discussion. Speedy keep, 20 January 2015 (UTC), see discussion. Keep, 5 August 2014 (UTC), see discussion. Speedy keep, 2 March 2014 (UTC), see discussion. This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Discussions: RM, Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) → Russo-Ukrainian War, Moved, 16 June 2020, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian Conflict, Withdrawn, 14 July 2020, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–2022), Not moved (SNOW), 3 March 2022, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict, Procedural close, 4 March 2022, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russia-Ukraine War, Not moved (SNOW), 8 March 2022, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russian-Ukrainian War, Procedural close, 18 June 2022, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russian-Ukrainian conflict, Not moved (SNOW), 20 January 2023, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → War in Ukraine, Not moved (SNOW), 22 February 2023, Discussion RM, Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo–Ukrainian War, Procedural close, 27 September 2023, Discussion Older discussions: RM, Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) → Russian military intervention in Ukraine, No consensus, 1 May 2018, Discussion RM, Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) → Russo-Ukrainian war, Not moved. , 25 May 2016, Discussion RM, 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine → 2014 Russian military interventions in Ukraine, Not moved, 18 September 2014, Discussion RM, → Russo-Ukrainian War, Not moved, 14 September 2014, Discussion RM, 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine → 2014 Russian military intervention in the Crimean Peninsula, No consensus, 14 April 2014, Discussion RM, 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine → 2014 Russian military intervention in Crimea, No consensus, 20 March 2014, Discussion The contents of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (2014) page were merged into Russo-Ukrainian War on 13 September 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations: Stephen Harrison (1 March 2022). "How the Russian Invasion of Ukraine Is Playing Out on English, Ukrainian, and Russian Wikipedia". Slate. Retrieved 1 March 2022. Besides the Wikipedia article for the invasion itself, there is an entry on the larger Russo-Ukrainian War dating to 2014 and separate pages for its individual battles like the "Battle of Kharkiv" and the "Attack on Snake Island." Lucas Ropek (18 October 2022). "Researchers Say 'Suspicious' Edits on Wikipedia Reek of Pro-Russian Propaganda". Gizmodo. Retrieved 20 October 2022. The new report analyzes the activities of 86 editors who had previously been banned due to various breaches of Wikipedia's code of ethics (editors can get kicked off Wikipedia if they behave badly). Among the many pages to which they'd contributed, the editors had a history of making edits to the Wiki entry for the Russo-Ukrainian War. Section sizes Section size for Russo-Ukrainian War (48 sections) Section name Byte count Section total (Top) 11,666 11,666 Background 131 36,531 Independent Ukraine and the Orange Revolution 15,136 15,136 Euromaidan, Revolution of Dignity, and pro-Russian unrest 6,453 6,453 Russian military bases in Crimea 4,189 4,189 Legality and declaration of war 10,622 10,622 History 14 149,232 Russian annexation of Crimea (2014) 14,123 14,123 War in the Donbas (2014–2015) 377 52,080 Pro-Russia unrest 9,080 9,080 Armed conflict 11,390 11,390 August 2014 Russian invasion 19,521 19,521 Mariupol offensive and first Minsk ceasefire 4,389 4,389 End of 2014 and Minsk II agreement 7,323 7,323 Line of conflict stabilizes (2015–2021) 16,771 24,687 2018 Kerch Strait incident 2,834 2,834 2019–2020 5,082 5,082 Russian military buildup around Ukraine (2021–2022) 4,327 36,156 Russian accusations and demands 14,465 14,465 Prelude to full invasion 17,364 17,364 Full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine (2022–present) 22,172 22,172 Human rights violations 14,436 14,436 Related issues 22 51,400 Spillover 4,213 4,213 Gas disputes 11,214 11,214 Hybrid warfare 3,871 3,871 Russian propaganda and disinformation campaigns 22,579 22,579 Role of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine 5,652 5,652 Russia–NATO relations 3,849 3,849 Reactions 176 41,587 Reactions to the Russian annexation of Crimea 142 12,355 Ukrainian response 3,162 3,162 NATO and United States military response 4,411 4,411 Financial markets 4,640 4,640 Reactions to the war in Donbas 97 8,681 Ukrainian public opinion 6,600 6,600 Russian public opinion 1,984 1,984 Reactions to the Russian invasion of Ukraine 108 20,375 Ukrainian public opinion 1,712 1,712 Russian public opinion 4,943 4,943 United States 4,767 4,767 Russian military suppliers 4,685 4,685 United Nations 4,160 4,160 See also 465 465 Notes 4,753 4,753 References 30 30 Further reading 579 579 External links 1,965 1,965 Total 312,644 312,644 This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2022, when it received 18,817,027 views. This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 5 times. The weeks in which this happened: February 20 to 26, 2022 February 27 to March 5, 2022 March 6 to 12, 2022 March 13 to 19, 2022 March 20 to 26, 2022 Daily pageviews of this article A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Should Belarus be listed in the infobox (and accordingly described in other parts of this article) concerning the events since 24 February 2022: A) no (as at present); B) as "Supported since 2022 by:  Belarus" (in Russia's side).

Please enter your answer to the question in the Survey section with a brief statement. Please do not respond to the statements of other editors in the Survey section. Back-and-forth discussion is permitted in the Discussion section (that's what it's for).

Note to closer and other participants: this RFC was started because the previous similar RFC (started on 16 March 2024) was closed on 17 May 2024 without a clear consensus regarding options A and B, but the uninvolved closer Compassionate727 stated that "Finally, there seems to be a consensus that if added, Belarus should be added with a note that its support began in 2022, although there is no reason that shouldn't be confirmed in the next RfC, which I assume will be forthcoming shortly". -- Pofka (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

• B. The role of Belarus in this war should be described as "supported since 2022 by: Belarus" (in Russia's side) because during the highly intensified phase of this war since 24 February 2022 the Russian Army's forces were allowed to: 1) invade Ukraine from the Belarusian territory through ground (1, 2); 2) Belarus allowed Russia full access to its military airbases for Russian military aircraft to launch aircraft and its army installations to shoot artillery and missiles from Belarusian territory towards Ukraine and Russian jets have taken off from Belarus to subsequently enter Ukraine from Belarusian airspace (3, 4, 5); 3) see more information in a dedicated article Belarusian involvement in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Consequently, although no evidence was collected that the Armed Forces of Belarus themselves invaded Ukraine, the role of Belarus is clearly not equal to other military suppliers (e.g. United States/Germany to Ukraine; Iran/North Korea to Russia) because they have never allowed to use their territories for direct military actions against Ukraine/Russia (and their armies), while Belarus allowed to do that. Moreover, in June 2023 Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko claimed that "the only mistake we made’ was not finishing off Ukraine with Russia in 2014" (see: full article), so Lukashenko's Belarus clearly tractate the current Ukraine as an enemy and by exceptionally supporting Russia since 2022 sought for Ukraine's military defeat in this war. -- Pofka (talk) 20:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• A. See previous RFC. Ivan (talk) 21:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• A. (Summoned by feedback request service). Infoboxes are for basic factual uncontroversial information that can be consumed at-a-glance. They are not suitable for contested statements or statements where some nuance is required. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 21:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• A per my comment at previous RfC. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• B per my comment at previous RfC. My very best wishes (talk) 23:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• A for the same reason we should not list the United States on Ukraine's side. We should only list groups that have soldiers fighting in the war, which Belarus does not and has said that they will not. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• B the US's role in the war is similar to that of Iran; the better comparison for Belarus would be Poland, assuming that Poland starts shooting down missiles as it said it was considering. Arms suppliers should indeed be left off but those countries/territories that have used or provided their territory in combat engagements in Ukraine should be included in the infobox as belligerents (this is after all the definition of being a belligerent). Dan the Animator 03:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• B Per Pofka, while role is not equal to Germany, NK, Iran... Belarus has nonetheless provided support and Lukashenko wants Ukraine defeated. O.maximov (talk) 12:02, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Pinging all the participants of the previous similar RFC who had voted in the Survey section (@Slatersteven:, @My very best wishes:, @Ortizesp:, @Gödel2200:, @Иованъ:, @Manyareasexpert:, @CVDX:, @RadioactiveBoulevardier:, @Cinderella157:, @Mellk:) because I think they should be informed about this RFC and are welcome to express their opinion regarding this question once again. -- Pofka (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: May be a good idea to include supporters rather than suppliers in the infobox. Then the role of Belarus should be included as a supporter of Russia and US as a supporter of Ukraine. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:10, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I dislike an RFC on a subject we had one recently about. Slatersteven (talk) 11:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-commander-french-military-instructors-visit-ukrainian-training-centres-2024-05-27/

Clearly sending french soldiers into Ukraine to train Ukrainian units would make them active participants and targets for the russian military.

https:theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/04/british-soldiers-on-ground-ukraine-german-military-leak

It is also surprising that the British haven't been already added to the belligerents section given the leaked German military phone call that detailed British troops are on the ground helping with missile targeting. 188.247.64.30 (talk) 20:33, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When sources say France is at war with Russia, then we can add them. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This whole wiki is only talking from the Western pro Ukrainian view, accusing only Russia of disinformation. And blaming the whole conflict on Russia. Everybody in international politics lies. As they always say that the first casualty of war is truth.

I'd like to see a Russian apologist give an alternate version of this history so that I can not believe it just as much as I disbelieve this one. I could learn something by reading between the lines (lies). Rlslemmer (talk) 14:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MAybe, but we go by what RS say (had you need to be far more specific in what you want us to say). We can't discuss generalities. Slatersteven (talk) 15:02, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russian President Vladimir Putin explained in detail in an interview with American journalist Tucker Carlson that Moscow is not going to attack NATO countries, there is no point in this. The Russian leader noted that Western politicians regularly intimidate their population with an imaginary Russian threat in order to distract attention from internal problems. 89.204.90.122 (talk) 16:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Err, Russia was the one who attacked Ukraine, Ukraine did not attack Russia. Slatersteven (talk) 16:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As to there being no point to this war, that is a forum topic, and we are not a forum. Slatersteven (talk) 16:36, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Putin nor Carlson are reliable sources of information, especially about politics and this war. They both lie. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please advise me re: WP:Contentious topics#Awareness of contentious topics. There's a warning template there, but it requires a magic code and I can't see one listed for the scope of this page. Thanks Andy Dingley (talk) 10:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It falls under Eastern Europe. WP:GSRUSUKR are specific sanctions for this war but don't have a specific CT aware. The link to the GS might also be added to the DS alert. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so just e-e is good, thanks. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many founts have confirmed the presence of italian volounteers fighting for the russian army and some of them have even been interwieved.So should we add in the list of belligerants even volounteers from other countries like franco-american for Ukraine and italo-sirians-lybyans for Russia? 2.47.239.31 (talk) 10:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, as that would not be national support, rather they are mercenaries. Slatersteven (talk) 11:01, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]