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Just to throw it out there, the lead sentence does not have to include Kipling's full name, because in the "Childhood and early life" section, the first sentence reads..."Rudyard Kipling was born Joseph Rudyard Kipling on 30 December 1865......" Avoiding redundancy here, so that is why I changed it. If anyone disagrees, feel free to explain your reasoning. Tinton5 (talk) 21:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Without invading privacy is it possible to get the names of his children? How many he had? A precis as to their fate? As biography goes this is like the otehrs I have read on him, but not very satisfying in that it tells me what he wrote, but not what he was like according to how other notable people saw him. DDB (talk) 02:34, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
I have uploaded from the New York Pubic Library site three interesting graphics of Kipling works to Commons. I love Kipling, but I leave it to the experts here to place these somewhere if you think they can enhance the piece. [1] [2] [3] MarmadukePercy (talk) 01:51, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
For us non-native speakers, how is "Rudyard" pronounced? Is the "u" dark (like "new") or light (like "ruddy")? Is "y" more like "yellow" or "jungle"? Thanks, -- Syzygy (talk) 11:03, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. ---- Yoenit (talk) 17:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I've suggested (and tagged) Rudyard Kipling bibliography and Rudyard Kipling: Collected Works for merging, and pointed the discussion link to here. Are there any concerns or suggestions, regarding this proposal? I was thinking that all the content&structure should be preserved, but presented in a single location. (See the 4 Featured list bibliographies, for examples of what it should be working towards.) Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 20:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I understand that at one point Rudyard lived next to Baden Powell. That must have been a reason for the connection between him Rudyard and scouting. Can anyone confirm this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scoutruud (talk • contribs) 21:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
The Reginald Dyer article states thast the fund was raised by the newspaper the Morning Post. It is possible that Kipling may have initiated that fund but at the very least there should be a citation that Kipling "started", as opposed to, say, contributed to the fund or the statement should be reworded. Dabbler (talk) 15:10, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Are his brilliant works now in public domain? If not, then when? 193.166.138.62 (talk) 09:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
The links to the British raj etc. are more specific to the time and locations in this article. More general ones such as India are more about the modern republic which does not cover some of the main areas in which Kipling lived and worked. Dabbler (talk) 12:45, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello All -
Looking for a modicum (or more) of help to improve the poetry side of a military/poetry ☺ article in draft on Ronald Hopwood. This is what Time Magazine said of Hopwood: "His poem The Laws of the Navy takes precedence among Navy men even over Kipling's If..." (see http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,765140,00.html) so I thought this would be a good place to look. Any volunteers, please? JMOprof (talk) 23:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
I earlier added this to the bibliography :
The change was reverted by Hello71 who sent me this :
Welcome to Wikipedia. Please be aware of Wikipedia's policy that biographical information about living persons must not include unsupported or inaccurate statements. Whenever you add possibly controversial statements about a living person to an article or any other Wikipedia page, as you did to Rudyard Kipling, you must include proper sources. If you don't know how to cite a source, you may want to read Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners for guidelines. Thank you. Hello71 (talk) 23:46, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Now the latest biography of Kipling has thus disappeared from the bibliography. Just to let you know, about Kipling and Hello71... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.251.223.170 (talk) 00:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
The article states that Kipling wrote only two science fiction stories. This is not correct. In fact, he wrote many. I hold in my hand right now an anthology of Kipling's science fiction published in 1992 (John Brunner Presents Kipling's Science Fiction, 1992, ISBN 0-312-82355-6 Parameter error in ((ISBN)): checksum). The stories included in the anthology are listed below. They range from hard science fiction to speculative fiction:
Steevithak (talk) 03:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I believe the current post about the Swastika is misleading, as a casual reader would easily come away with the idea that Kipling has been unfairly labeled anti-Semitic rather than anti-Nazi. This seems to be a question much more up in the air. While I don't dispute that he had the swastika removed, H.Rider Haggard stated in his diary that "Kipling is of the opinion that we owe all our Russian troubles, and many others, to the machinations of the Jews." Ricketts, p 351
That said, I don't feel I know enough about the issue to add it here.
Digital sextant (talk) 11:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
The wikiMedia repro. of the newspaper photo of "Kipling in South Africa 1900-1901" is very poor quality. I was easily able to return it to full-range gray scale black and white, without degrading or altering any image details, including contrast, sharpness, halftone screen, etc. However, I'm not sure about how/where/whether to upload it. On the one hand, my cleanup is much more "decodable" as an image. On the other hand, the clipping is a century old and the artifact, as distinct from the image, is terribly faded, yellowed cheap newsprint; and perhaps it should be reproduced as it appears now, rather than when it was new. Specifically: --Should I upload it? --If so, where; as a replacement in the article? I can't figure out how to get it directly to WikiMedia. --Should I work on several other similarly decayed images in this article?Jim Stinson (talk) 00:57, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
I thank the references to his funeral (arguably in two parts, the cremation then the burial of ashes in Westminster Abbey) may need rephrasing, to read more sensibly. By mentioning the marble casket before the cremation you may give impression that it was used pre-cremation. Also note that in US English the 'coffin' of British English is usually read as 'casket', while in British English 'casket' is usually specifically used for containers of cremated ashes other than the traditional urn.Cloptonson (talk) 11:16, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Your rewrite- "...returned to England with his family..." is not appropriate because 1) RK was not returning to England, he was born in India, and 2) there's a strong implication in your words that he was with his family thereafter, which is incorrect. The previous "was taken by his family to England..." at least avoids the first error and probably avoids the second as well. And there's nothing clumsy about the passive voice- at the age of 5 it was hardly going to be his decision. Reverted. Gravuritas (talk) 09:21, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
This refers to the section on Kipling's birth. Can someone knowledgeable please clarify if the current house in JJ School of Art and Architecture is the same as the original one (as is mentioned in the BBC news item)? Or was the original one torn down (as is mentioned in this wiki - without any citation)? I have changed the wording of the wiki meanwhile to "may have been torn down" since the BBC news article sggests that it is the original building that stands today in the campus as Dean's house (what an unimaginative name. ugh!)
Also if the bungalow is still used as a residence? Or it it an abandoned one (as claimed in teh current wiki- again citation missing). Candid photos on the net (other than the polished ones from newspapers) certainly seem to suggest an abandoned house, but a more dependable viewpoint preferably of someone from JJ itself or someone who has personally visited this place adn verified it, would be useful Notthebestusername (talk) 11:49, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
An infobox portrait should be proportioned such that the man's features are clearly visible (in all resolutions). To stick that uncropped framed thing into the infobox is just objectively less beneficial. -- Director (talk) 01:23, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
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checked -- Elmidae (talk) 08:21, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Who are they? "Trooper Aberline’s sacrifice was to have an impact on the Boers and his legacy went far beyond his rusting cross in the Lichtenburg cemetery which lies close to that of Edith Mathews." 117.221.189.157 (talk) 06:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
I have been researching several places about Rudyard Kipling's point of view regarding the massacre. I found this in several news papers. Here are some links. http://www.firstpost.com/politics/a-sorry-apology-david-cameron-at-jallianwala-bagh-632541.html http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130221/jsp/frontpage/story_16587696.jsp#.Vxu0szArJhF http://www.historyinanhour.com/2013/02/20/amritsar-massacre-summary/ https://books.google.com/books?id=yzzlCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT506&lpg=PT506&dq=kipling+dyer+morning+post&source=bl&ots=EISShgiBD7&sig=3i-0UE7cYMx1W6DCcSz1DKRnSeY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKl62lqKXMAhVFx4MKHe4rAhsQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=kipling%20dyer%20morning%20post&f=false http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2013/02/21/cameron-in-amritsar-apologies-for-a-colonial-massacre and many others you can search on google.
All of the links mention that Kipling supported General Dyer's order to open fire on unarmed people. It also claim that he donated 50 or 100 pound to fund to honor General Dyer. When I edited Kipling's page with above mentioned links as citation, it was removed. I would like to know why it is removed ?
Please Note: I am not regular contributor on wikipedia. I do not mean to hurt anyone. All I think is, it is important to mention such a view of a person. Ripplejb (talk) 19:00, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Point taken. I am sorry for inconvenience and thank you very much for the reply. Ripplejb (talk) 00:47, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
There is a commonly-repeated story that Kipling started the fund for Colonel (acting Brigadier-General) Dyer's retirement, that he was the first contributor and gave a large sum, and that he called Dyer 'the man who saved India'. This does not seem to be true. The fund was started by the jingoist newspaper The Morning Post, and it was the Post which called Dyer 'the man who saved India'. Derek Sayer of the University of Alberta, in 'British Reaction to the Amritsar Massacre 1919-1920' (Past and Present, No.131, Oxford University Press, May 1991, pp.130-164), notes (p.158):-
'Rudyard Kipling sent £10 (with the laconic and, I believe, thoroughly accurate observation, "He did his duty, as he saw it").'
http://www.academia.edu/4297399/British_Reaction_to_the_Amritsar_Massacre_1919-1920
Kipling was probably more of a Times person than a Morning Post person, and the Times was anti-Dyer. But he was likely to sympathise with the British community in India who felt physically threatened by Indian nationalism. Many of them made small contributions to Dyer's fund, often less than 10 rupees each because most of them were not well-off. The fund ended up with more than £26,300, so Kipling's £10 was not very significant, and his comment on Dyer is guarded and double-edged. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:01, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Those born before 1949 in any part of the Empire, are British subjects, which includes anyone born in India. If he isn't considered an Indian person, then many of those in the category, including native Indians, should also be removed.
Also, by the standards of many articles on the Wiki, the place in which an individual is born, is considered vital part of the identity, and the relevant categories are added. Kipling obviously moved to the UK with his family, which would technically make him an immigrant, the same even today, regardless of their legal status currently. Uamaol (talk) 00:49, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
I think we are mixing up two things here. One is "Anglo-Indian", the other "Indian emigrant to the UK". These are not the same and need to be addressed separately.
I do agree that Kipling was an Anglo-Indian. This is an uncontroversial description that you will often see applied to Kipling and other white Raj British subjects living in India. Our article Anglo-Indians states in the lede: "can refer to at least two groups of people: those with mixed Indian and British ancestry, and people of British descent born or living in the Indian subcontinent" - the latter is the sense often applied to Kipling. - Note, I still ask that User:Uamaol not re-add the category until we have reached consensus about this.
I do not agree that Kipling was an Indian emigrant, simply because this term is not used for people of British descent, born as British subjects. I have given examples above and would like to know whether Uamaol would consider these to fall under the category as well. -- Elmidae (talk) 19:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
You do not seem to be able to convince anyone here that Kipling should be considered an immigrant from India to the UK. So you will not achieve consensus for the change. Also you definition of Anglo-Indian is completely out dated and has not been in use for more than a century. The category considers the modern definition and to try and bring in Victorian concepts to a modern category is just confusing and not encyclopedic. Dabbler (talk) 01:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Anglo-Indian in the original, non-ethnic, sense is rather a vague term. It happens that I have often heard it, and continue to do so, since it is by no means obsolete, whatever the dictionary says. I do not think the Anglo-Indians I have known would have applied it to Kipling or his parents. They were not committed to an Indian career like members of the ICS, say. Nor was there any Indian tradition on the family, of the sort he described in his story "The Tomb of his Ancestors". I don't think he would have called himself an Anglo-Indian. Nor does it make sense to call him an immigrant from IndiaSeadowns (talk) 22:06, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
The scholars look on him as criticising Anglo-India from the outside, that is, not as Anglo-Indian himself But this is not really aquestion of fact. If you choose to call him Anglo-Indian nobody can refute you. As one myself, I feel he wasn't one! Regret can't sign this properly because computer won't type tilde. Seadowns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seadowns (talk • contribs) 20:08, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
I would add that people of mixed blood used to be called Eurasians, but in an early piece of PC the term Anglo-Indian was officially applied to them. This left the other sort of Anglo-Indians, such as described in the story I mentioned, without a separate name of their own, thus causing some confusion. Seadowns (talk) 12:43, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
I had considered putting a request quotation template into a disputed paragraph, but I feel simply reverting to my own previous edit would more quickly generate discussion and resolution. I have not seen the cited source.
From my perspective, my edit correlated with the previous sentence, which states, "Kipling had no sympathy with or understanding of Irish nationalism".
My edit was the following: "The British scholar David Gilmour wrote Kipling's lack of sympathy about nationalism could be seen in". Fellow editor Elmidae suggested that Kipling didn't lack sympathy for nationalism. Perhaps my change wasn't specific enough - Kipling had a lack of sympathy for Irish nationalism in particular, even if he had sympathy for nationalism in other contexts.
Even if the source explicitly suggests "lack of understanding of Ireland", I still maintain that this is an over-simplification or a lack of clarity on the author's part: lack of understanding of Irish nationalism does not equate to lack of understanding "of Ireland" per se. Kipling was clearly not ignorant of Ireland. It is merely a lack of understanding for a specific political outlook, and possibly more likely to be lack of sympathy rather than of understanding.
I will alter my edit to reflect this. --24.182.92.247 (talk) 19:37, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
1. I think the article understates the sadism of Mrs Holloway, as well as failing to mention her foul son, who took part in tormenting the child Kipling. Captain Holloway seems to have been comparatively decent, but weak, and I believe he died while the Kipling children were there. 2. I also think a bit more could be made of Kipling's later adult stories, such as They, The Wish house, or Friendly Brook. They stand very high in literature. Seadowns (talk) 13:19, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone have knowledge of whether the poem 'My Boy Jack' might refer to Boy Jack Cornwell VC ? Peter R Hastings 12:51, 30 December 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by P R Hastings (talk • contribs)
Hey, I recently colourised a picture of Kipling and I was wondering if it could made it up to the infobox. I believe it looks better than the one which leads the article and other wikis such as the Spanish one already have this version. --Macesito (talk) 12:57, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
I personally prefer the current image... -- Director (talk) 13:24, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
Sacrilege! You deserved to be fried at dawn. What's that in his hand- a folded pair of Ray-Bans?? Martinevans123 (talk) p.s. maybe you could add colour to just a third of the film?
I love this and would like to see it as the featured photograph. That's my five cents. --Discott (talk) 21:35, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
I really cannot remember how to do the insanely complex hieroglyphic keystrokes required for inline citations, so I can't directly correct the text, but it's unfortunate that the article is lying about Kipling in relation to Colonel (acting Brigadier) Dyer, the author of the Amritsar Massacre of 1919. Kipling was not a 'prominent supporter' of Dyer and did not call him 'the man who saved India', a phrase originated by the Morning Post newspaper. Nor did Kipling start the appeal for Dyer's retirement fund -- that was the Morning Post again. (And it wasn't a 'homecoming prize', as the article falsely claims; it was a retirement fund, because the army refused Dyer any further appointments, in other words sacked him. Dyer, broken by the knowledge of what he had done, did not live long to enjoy his retirement.) The Indian author Subhash Chopra, cited by the article, is however wrong to say that Kipling did not donate to the fund. He reportedly gave £10, out of a total of more than £26,000 raised. All Kipling said of Dyer was, 'He did his duty, as he saw it,' which, as I've mentioned before, is guarded and double-edged. Once again, see:- https://www.academia.edu/4297399/British_Reaction_to_the_Amritsar_Massacre_1919-1920
False claims made against Kipling by modern Indian nationalists need to be considered in light of the fact that the current Hindu nationalist prime minister, Narendra Modi, himself reportedly instigated the Gujarat riots of 2002, which killed at least as many people as the Amritsar Massacre. And Modi clearly does not suffer from the remorse that destroyed Dyer. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:22, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't like this description of the author as being "English". He was born in India to an English father and Scottish mother. I'm not sure how that qualifies Kipling as English? And as the article later says under "childhood" he himself considered himself "Anglo-Indian".
What gives you the right to challenge this man's assertion of nationality? I would suggest that "British Indian" might be more appropriate. Or at least "British." It certainly seems to me that is is quite wrong to label him as "English". John2o2o2o (talk) 01:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
(To: Elmidae, HiLo48, Chewings72 - possibly all the same person)
Please do not hijack Wikipedia for your own narrow-minded elitist agenda. As far as I am aware, Wikipedia deals only in facts and not in airy fairy abstract notions of identity. Most people accept that 'nationality' denotes the country of your birth, regardless of later adopted citizenship. Nationality is not the same as citizenship. As a general rule, if it can’t be proved, best not to write it.
As regards Kipling : Kipling was an English writer – false; Kipling was an Indian writer – true; Kipling was an English-language writer – true; Kipling was Indian - true; Kipling was British - false; Kipling was English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh - false; Kipling was a British citizen/subject – true; Kipling’s birth parents were British – false (not proven).
Therefore, Kipling was Indian and an English-language writer. So stop censoring facts.(Kenwikiman) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenwikiman (talk • contribs) 20:56, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Nationality relates to culture and genetics: Link. What if Rudyard was born on a 747 to a beautiful stewardess and pilot in Bombay, the plane having to make an emergency landing for 10 minutes for the reason, before taking off again for destinations unknown? Lord Milner (talk)
This suggests he was appointed CH in 1917 without his consent, and then had to reject it. We say nothing about this in the article. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Is there any good reason why the External links section entry for the Kipling Society points to an archive copy on the Wayback Machine? The website is flourishing and up-to-date.--Verbarson (talk) 11:16, 5 June 2021 (UTC)