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Moldova and Ukraine candidates negotiationg
Moldova and Ukraine are not technically candidates negotiating yet, since there is not a starting date to open the negotiations yet. From the EU Council conclusions:
"The European Council decides to open accession negotiations with Ukraine and with the Republic of Moldova. The European Council invites the Council to adopt the respective negotiating frameworks once the relevant steps set out in the respective Commission recommendations of 8 November 2023 are taken."
Should we refrain from considering them as candidates negotiating until the official start of the negotiations?
I understand it would be very difficult and may require the temporary protection of the page. Open to discussion. Hetsre (talk) 14:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also, when commission initially recommended opening negotiations it says "the Commission recommends that Council adopts the negotiating frameworks once Ukraine and Moldova have adopted certain key measures. The Commission stands ready to report to Council by March 2024 on the progress relating to these measures."[1]
Yesterday's decision said that "The European Council invites the Council to adopt the respective negotiating frameworks once the relevant steps set out in the respective Commission recommendations of 8 November 2023 are taken."[2] So it really does appear some frameworks need to be created before actual negotiations start. I'm no expert so hopefully somebody knows the answer. --LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The EU accession is a complicated, bureaucratic and always changing process and there are many steps on the path which sometimes seem redundant. However, since it clearly says "The European Council decides to open accession negotiations with Ukraine and with the Republic of Moldova", then we should report it like that. Then, when the EU (either European Council or the Council of the EU) adopts the negotiating framework then we can report it as the next (separate!) step in the accession procedure. Also, I saw reports in Ukrainian sources that the general procedure was slightly tweaked this time to speed up Ukraine's accession process, so maybe that's why these two steps might look slightly different from what was previously reported in our big table for other countries. --Kammerer55 (talk) 04:49, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To add to the discussion below, it would be probably better to add a new row called "Council decides to open negotiations" in the table right before "Council sets negotiations start date" to better report what's happening. Kammerer55 (talk) 04:57, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think the main point of the EU decision was to allow the Commission to immediately start the acquis screening for Ukraine and Moldova to speed up further acceptance of the negotiating framework. So this is all part of the same "negotiating" process, even though it can be also thought of as the preparatory step. However, taking into account amount of political attention and reported importance for the event, it probably justifies the upgrade of status from "candidate" to "candidate negotiating" for Ukraine and Moldova. Just add the necessary notes/clarifications where necessary. (Also, we have another example of North Macedonia where none of the negotiating chapters were opened, so if Ukraine and Moldova are not considered negotiating candidates, a similar question might arise why do we consider North Macedonia as such.) Kammerer55 (talk) 05:05, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is the most Wikipedia-discussion ever. Nobody cared that North Macedonia and Albania hadn't opened any chapters, of course they were "negotiating". But now, all of sudden, because a few users think they need to have a new opinion, we are debating this? +1 for "negotiating". Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this mess with the map as well. --~~~~ Xolani (talk) 00:09, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I also support updating the timeline table. Salto Loco (talk) 00:05, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This topic keeps reappearing. The map used in this article has also changed back and forth several times over the past few weeks. I therefore suggest a discussion on what "negotiating" actually means. As the map has changed recently, I've opened the discussion there. Maybe some of the people who participated in the discussion here want to chime in. Link to discussion --Xolani (talk) 23:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Poor quality map of San Marino and EU
The map of San Marino and EU in "States not on the agenda" section is of poor quality and should be changed. WikiEnjoyer123 (talk) 19:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think there is excitement that this is happening but saying they are negotiating in present tense may not be factual.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 02:04, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, see my comment above. Hetsre (talk) 02:10, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I did not see that when I scrolled down. Then let's close this and continue discussion on your section since you were first, seems right.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 02:26, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Turkey negotiations suspended
Is it really correct to label Turkey's negotiations as flat out being suspended? I get they aren't going anywhere right now, but the EU's website doesn't really note anything about them flat out being suspended. Not to mention, the EU Parliament vote doesn't affect the negotiations, it was just an opinion vote. I feel it makes more sense to just label them as a regular negotiating candidate, since that's what the EU considers them according to: https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/eu-enlargement_en
Also to tag on to the other discussions, Moldova and Ukraine are not yet negotiating, and therefore should be labelled as regular candidates. The EU's site for enlargement linked above notes that as well. Just my two cents. EnglishPackets (talk) 04:06, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"In December 2022, the Council of the European Union reiterated its position of June 2018 that Türkiye continues to move further away from the European Union and that accession negotiations with the country are therefore at a standstill and no further chapters can be considered for opening or closing..." [3]
That sound very suspended and very frozen to me, whatever you want to call it.--LeontinaVarlamonva (talk) 01:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.
or Further enlargement of the European Union Salto Loco (talk) 12:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The present word, Potential, is appropriately imprecise and so matches the reality, for example at the distant end Turkey and the UK but also true (if less so) of Georgia and Ukraine. Apart from violating WP:CRYSTAL, "Future enlargement" implies a strong degree of confidence that the remaining few hurdles will be cleared in the near future. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:47, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Future" definitely has more CRYSTAL vibes than "Potential". Both are descriptive titles, I'm not sure common name applies. CMD (talk) 13:51, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The current title implies the reality that no expansion is set in stone. If we rename, the discussion would immediately pivot to which countries don't deserve to be in this article because their ascension prospects are slim. TheSavageNorwegian 18:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I agree that the proposed title is presumptive. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and speedy close - snowball oppose. Archives908 (talk) 21:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, same reasons above. Hetsre (talk) 20:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I was involved in the original move discussion that got us to "Potential". It was argued, correctly, that "future" suggests confirmation and certainty, while "potential" suggests discussion and processes. Under WP:CRYSTAL we shouldn't assume completion until it's done. doktorbwordsdeeds 20:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]