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Very useful and well drafted page. I like the derived Iway for I myself and only wish to be as helpful contributing to the disambiguity. --Joseph L. Russell, Jr. 19:10, 9 September 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MetlifeWP (talk • contribs)
Many Wikipedia users believe Wikipedia should come with the Igpay Atinlay (Pig Latin) option. John says:I agree they should have a igpay atinlay section.
I'yay ink'thay at'thay ere'thay ould'shay also'yay e'bay an inea'gay ig'pay atin'lay (itheginithegea'gay ithegig'pay ithegatithegin'lay) ikipedia'way! 24.59.157.62 (talk) 22:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)Ithegashithega'say
Another way of looking at Pig Latin is as a spoken transposition cipher. A form of verbal encryption / encipherment.
== Other Pig Latins? == HI BOLOS HEAD!
Question: is PigLatin primarily a phenomenon of children in English speaking countries, or are the same rules followed by children of other countries?
In Japanese language, I believe that the syllable is more of a fundamental unit that 'consonant' or 'vowel'. (Japanese characters, hiragana and katakana, form a syllabary rather than an alphabet.) So little kids in Japan would probably follow a different set of rules to create their own mock language.
I hope someone knows about this. I never thought of it before, and now I'm really interested.
I have heard that the Japanese use "ba-bi-bu-be-bo" language. So "Boku ha Juuitchan da" would come out something like:
"bobokubu waba jubuubuibitchaban daba"
I will ask my Japanese teacher (nihongo no sensei) next week. I don't have class until Wednesday, due to the holiday on Monday.
Hopefully I won't forget, but someone can please remind me. I can also ask my Japanese mother-in-law.
[edit] Notes.Anselmocisneros 11:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
PigLatin is a spoken code. American Blacks used the language to hide intentions from hostile overseers. Nowadays it is taught as a game, but it helped people survive.
It was obviously a novelty word game introduced in that era and when the novelty wore off, it began to disappear. But Pig Latin has popped up now and again. The breakfast cereal Fruit Loops had an ad in the 1960s about "Uit-fray Oops-lay," which helps "Uild-bay up your uscles-may." In the 1970s the phrase "ix-nay on the otten-ray" was used in the movie Young Frankenstein. In fact "ixnay" lives on long after the real word "nix" meaning don't speak or to veto something has vanished.
You can't have a page on pig latin without mentioning the 3 Stooges. They didn't invent it, but the certainly popularized it and the Stooges are the only reason why anyone knows about it.
There is also a related code language, I'm not sure if it has a name, in which each word is essentially spelled out, but consenants are appended with the suffix -ong and vowels are just spoken. For example:
I learned a variant in which the first pronounced letter or letter gruop (like Qu or Sh) is moved to the end, and only if it is a consonant is the "ay" added.
Example:
Isthay si a esttay. Isthay si nlyo a esttay.
means:
This is a test. This is only a test.
LMT1
I have deleted a portion of the article, which was copied from The Straight Dope Mailbag, concerning the history of Pig Latin. That portion was also written in non-encyclopedic style ("I'll spare you the details", "check out the rest of the scene"). -- Coneslayer 20:58, 2005 August 3 (UTC)
Because they have Klingon and Welsh.--Qpqp 05:38, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
It's not just English! Other languagese can also have Pig Latin.--Fox Mccloud 01:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
ig-Pay atin-Lay non lingua eal-ray. (attempted combination of pig latin and..."Latin latin").
Did you just say that pig latin is not real? I am mortally offended! Freddie 03:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Iway earnedlay igpay-atilay ebay-orefay Iway earnedlay anyway-ingthay elseway. Osay owhay isway itway otnay orthway anyway-one'sway imetay otay akemay itway? So I guess this makes Pig-Latin VERY real for me and my siblings.... {Munkey} Michelle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.44.153 (talk) 07:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
There is no PL wiki because if that's really what you want, it could be generated client-side with a browser script. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.87.39 (talk) 10:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Being me, the first thing that comes to my mind upon reading the rules for construction are cases like "away" or "allay", which would end up with some sort of ay-ay (eg. "a-way-way" or "a-way-ay") in pig Latin. Is that how it would really be spoken? No. It would be "way-away". --74.232.19.35 (talk) 16:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Now let me see how many words in pig Latin spells the same as an English word (ignoring the hyphen):
any others? especially words starting with consonants in English? 67.170.72.189 07:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
#!/usr/local/bin/perl my %words; while (<>) { chomp; $words{$_} = 1; } foreach my $word (sort keys %words) { my $piglatin = ''; if ($word =~ m/^([^aeiou]*)([aeiou].*)$/) { $piglatin = "$2$1ay"; } elsif ($word =~ m/^[aeiou]/) { $piglatin = "${word}ay"; } if ($words{$piglatin}) { print "$word $piglatin\n"; } }
all allay ass assay lin inlay lover overlay ok okay raff affray rast astray ses essay sun unsay trash ashtray trice icetray uns unsay wa away
ad aday all allay allow alloway alt altay as asay ass assay aw away bogle oglebay da aday dal alday dall allday do oday du uday ess essay is isay ko okay lal allay lim imlay lin inlay lo olay lover overlay mella ellamay ok okay plunder underplay rast astray sa asay sas assay si isay sor orsay stover overstay tal altay tip iptay trash ashtray wa away walley alleyway wallo alloway wan anway wedge edgeway word ordway wunder underway
I think there's a problem with the algorithm given for consonant-started words:
I take "all but the first consonant sounds" to mean the whole word excluding the start, i.e. the end of the word. Moving that part to the end doesn't make sense, because that is already where it is. Anyone else correct my logic, or is the page flawed? BigNate37 20:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Though games for non-English languages are akin to Pig Latin, there are articles for those games and for language games as a group. Examples for those games should be in those articles and not here.--Rcharman 23:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Igpay Atinlay | |
---|---|
Spoken in | United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand |
Classification | Pig Latin |
See also: Language games |
Exactly what in the category of Language falls under English, etc?
As a 40 yr old Briton born, raised and widely travelled in England, I've never encountered Pig Latin in any schools visited and had never heard of it before reading a linguistics book less than a decade ago! The standard backslang game here is to reverse whole words or phrases e.g. car park = krap rac Pig Latin appears to be an American import into Britain.
It would be nice to see some information about the history/origin of Pig Latin. What times it was first used, and when the public was aware of it etc. [unsigned]
What does the language game have to do with pigs, and why was it named for Latin and not, say, Spanish, German, cuneiform, or the most relevant, English? This information would improve the article. --Gray PorpoisePhocoenidae, not Delphinidae 22:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I fail to see why there was a "Neutrality disputed" tag on this page. I have since removed it. JMyrleFuller 23:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
The article currently asserts:
Not true: "end" and "den" both become enday, for example. (Other examples: "ant" and "tan"; "apt" and "tap".) I suppose some pedants would insist that using a hyphen relieves the ambiguity (but seeing as how Pig Latin is used orally far more than it is used in writing, I claim a silent hyphen does little good.)
An aside: I learned the "way" variation first, and consider it more sonorous when words end in a vowel. (I cringe at the double-a's in "areaay", "ideaay", and "okraay".) --Heath 128.173.42.61 04:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
To a linguist, "backslang" refers more to the generic type referred to on the slang page, where letters or syllables are reversed, than Pig Latin which is a very specific kind. Any objections to changing the redirect to point there? --Lou.weird 15:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Why is Anita O'day referenced in this article? I see that the pig latin word for dough is her last name, but this just seems like a random link between the two articles. --Beau 15:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
UPDATE 216.235.192.10 15:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC) Nevermind, apparently Anita O'Day changed her name to O'Day because it is pig latin --Beau 216.235.192.10 15:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The article claims "phone" becomes "phone-ay", apparently on the grounds that "ph" ("f") is a "silent consonant" or vowel. Acknowledging that I may have learned a different dialect of Pig Latin than the author, I don't think it's reasonable to claim that "ph" is either silent or a vowel.
The way I learned Pig Latin, "phone" certainly becomes "own-fay".
Comments? --Pediddle 08:05, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
207.38.248.24 (talk) 02:42, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
I was always taught that if a word started with a vowel sound, you move everything up to the first syllable starting with a consonant sound to the end and start from there.
Hence, "eagle" would be "Gle-ea-ay" (Phonetically, "Gull-e-ay") rather than just "Eagle-ay".
It fits more closely with the construct of Pig Latin, seeing as one of the primary elements of the language is moving the front part of the word to the back. Honestly, just slapping an "-ay" (or "-way", or whatever) to the end of the word seems to me like cheating! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.214.137.199 (talk • contribs) 03:28, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The section on Oeks added July 9 by an anonymous IP address seems like original research at best, and most likely a hoax. I think it should be removed. Hu 13:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
This is very very likely to be a hoax, I'm dutch and I can honestly say that I have never heard of "Oeks". The description also seems to suggest that this was a very local (one school, in a small town only) and just between friends/classmates. I agree that it should be removed. Vdham 08:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Same here, should be removed. Sounds like a non respectful joke to MAVO students... An even better reason to remove it, is since the loss of distinctive vowels, the original words can't be re-engineered. That for me counts as a major disqualifier eg. "aansteken" (to light sth) will have the same result as "insteken" (to put sth into sth)
81.86.57.99 17:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
This entire article should be written in Pig Latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.115.7.122 (talk) 01:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it's a "deliberate misnomer" that it's called Latin. The "ay" sound mimics the word endings added in Latin. I don't know Latin, but in Spanish, some conjugated verbs end in -e, which sounds like "ay". danwWiki (talk) 19:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
"mimics the word endings added in Latin" "I don't know Latin" riiight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.27.160.189 (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Amsterdam → Amsterdanway ???
Suppose to be "Amsterdamway" ? 82.194.234.254 (talk) 06:04, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Then fix it yourself under a minor clean-up category. Don't report a typo on talk pages.
--ObiwanLostToBarney | (talk) 21:04, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I had to comment out most of the info in the Use section. Some of it was simply not cited or verifiable (the statement that "Pig Latin" in British refers to back slang, and the statement that Ben Franklin used Pig Latin), and for some the reference cited was not enough (the statement that "Pig Latin" is another term for Butcher's Back Slang is not supported in the reference that was given--that reference does say that butchers used back slang during WW2, but never says that anyone called it pig latin). --Politizer (talk) 03:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone (probably a student) noted that one used recursion to program Pig-Latin. You can use recursion for a lot of stuff, but it is not really useful here. The Java-like pseudocode for this would be
public String toPigLatin (String s) {
// ignore empty
if (s == "") return s;
if (isVowel(s.charAt(0)) return s + "way";
if (isConsonant(s.charAt(0)) return s.substring(1) + s.charAt(0) + "ay";
}
--WiseWoman (talk) 08:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't even know where to begin to prove how inaccurate and subjective this article is. First and foremost, it has no or too few references, and none based on reliable linguistic research sources, which, I suspect, do exist.
"The purpose of the alteration is to both obfuscate the encoding and to indicate for the intended recipient the encoding as 'Pig Latin'."
The first part of that statement sounds too systematic. Even if it can be proved correct, it only applies to the English language, and the sentence should therefore be reformulated by taking this fact into account.
The second clause can either be seen as obviously wrong, or as a completely empty tautology: If the purpose of speaking a (coded) language were only to make the person you're speaking to (therefore presumed to speak it as well) understand that you are speaking that (coded) language, there would be no point speaking it.
"it could also be because the transformed words sound similar to Latin"
There is no longer such thing as a living Latin phonology. As for the past ones, they can be reconstructed, but even so, "Pig Latin" most certainly did not sound like that. Even if that claim was founded, original research should not be on the wikipedia.
If the "origin" section were constructive, it would require citations / sourcing.
The "Use" section seems to claim that slang words need to be incorporated somehow. Some serious and sourced corpus work should be done to analyze the frequency of use of Pig Latin.
The "Other languages" section is not exhaustive. Major examples are missing like the Serbo-Croatian "Šatrovački", and the French "Verlan", which is much more ubiquitous and close to Pig Latin rules than the mentioned "loucherbem". Verlan is actually a sociological identity language, whereas loucherbem is merely a joke.
I will remove the article in a week if it is not completely rewritten.
L'œuf (talk) 22:47, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
who argues that loucherbem is more serious in French than Pig Latin is in English. (also remember that Pig Latin, too, is 'merely a joke'.)#Valdman, Albert (2000). "La Langue des faubourgs et des banlieues: de l'argot au français populaire". The French Review 73 (6). (French)
I second the opinion of rʨanaɢ. The way to handle an undocumented article is to improve it, not to delete it. A quick search of Google Scholar turns up 56,000 references to pig latin in professional literature, so it is certainly a phenomenon worthy of inclusion in the Wikipedia.
L'œuf, we appreciate your zeal and gladly support your efforts to add citations to this important article. Oodgay ucklay. --Ravpapa (talk) 05:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC) (or Avray Apapay, if you prefer)
L'œuf (talk) 09:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
I've removed an incorrect statement about Thomas Jefferson recording his sexual activity in Pig Latin and deleted the accompanying reference. The referenced material discusses journals of Thomas Thistlewood, not Thomas Jefferson. The Wikipedia page on Thistlewood notes his famous diary, and no such diary seems to exist for Jefferson. Although the language Thistlewood uses to mask his sexual language is actually called "Pig Latin" in the now-removed source, this is also incorrect: certain words were merely replaced with Latin. Latin and Pig Latin are further confused in this article: [3] Mohrgould (talk) 22:43, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
We should maybe add a disambiguation page as Pig Latin is also a computer language for the Apache Pig project. see http://pig.apache.org and http://pig.apache.org/docs/r0.7.0/piglatin_ref1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drdee (talk • contribs) 18:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Is this article really within the scope of WikiProject Latin? It's nothing to do with Latin - it's just a language called 'Pig Latin'. It has less to do with the language than Latin America, which genuinely has a connection but is surely not within the scope of the project. --Rbreen (talk) 13:04, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
"Aiden Latin" is brought up in the first sentence of the first paragraph and never mentioned again. Why is it included? What does Aiden even mean? I'm deleting it unless someone thinks there's a reason for leaving it up.
I am not as agreeable with the edit detailing the origin of Pig latin. Pig Latin as disambiguation describes was a form of language, used especially by children, that is derived from ordinary English by moving the first consonant or consonant cluster of each word to the end of the word and adding the sound (ā), as in Eakspay igpay atinlay for “Speak Pig Latin.”. --Joseph L. Russell, Jr. 20:47, 9 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MetlifeWP (talk • contribs)
Shouldn't this article and its examples have more of a phonetic perspective? For example, using IPA, or spelling the examples without unnecessary letters that don't make any different sounds when the order is changed. After all, it seems that this language game is based on the phonetics of the words, not the orthography. Mechanic1c (talk) 00:55, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
I think some people ought not be so small! When John says:I agree they should have a igpay atinlay section "I'yay ink'thay at'thay ere'thay ould'shay also'yay" It is disassembling to want e'bay to indemnify the few at the expense of the marginal "(itheginithegea'gay ithegig'pay ithegatithegin'lay)" Thanks ikipedia'way. --70.98.142.254 (talk) 20:29, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
The paragraph on consonant clusters in the "Rules" section is redundant. The paragraph right before it states "For words that begin with consonant sounds, all letters before the initial vowel are placed at the end of the word sequence..." This would include consonant clusters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tns3327 (talk • contribs) 08:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
I've restored it. Kostaki mou (talk) 16:47, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
What about the relationship with the Javanais? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanais — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8A8D:FE80:6849:EC43:9A44:681B (talk) 12:52, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
saint alphonsus ligouri is the patron saint of confessors — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.160.184.138 (talk) 22:37, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Ariomay
Onicsay
Elevisiontay
Omputercay
FOUay
Olombiacay
Ussiaray
Obinray
--190.66.254.201 (talk) 22:00, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Ikipediaway. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 22:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
it's in page 14 of the script, or around ~11 minute into the film. I as a non native English speaker, could never understand what she was saying until I read the script (after very short google search) https://images.amcnetworks.com/ifcfilmsawards.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Boyhood-screenplay-11-14-FINAL.pdf
So if I did something not properly (I suppose the above link can be referenced?) please fix my shoddy wiki-work--Benderbr (talk) 14:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
Is this what Gen does in Dr. Stone? 178.129.185.54 (talk) 22:37, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
@Drmies:: Can you explain this deletion? Don't you consider it verifiable by any educated person with access to the primary source, which is the image itself? Error (talk) 17:33, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
Slap 2601:2C5:580:360:9460:D39D:8BF4:30EC (talk) 06:46, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
What dose it mean 2603:8001:B941:6C7E:D95C:1CCE:E3DC:1458 (talk) 06:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)