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Archive 1 |
Dictionary definition -- Graham :) | Talk 18:51, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I removed "(partially inspired by Schopenhauer)" after Zapffe's biosophy. He was also partially inspired by Job, Hegel, Shakespear, Wittgenstein, Næss etc. etc. etc. - Sigg3.net 15:37, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
simism is like superstition. Zapffe is not superstitious. --Sigg3.net
It seems like some frequent editors here have formulated articles as an ad hominem attack of sorts. It lists proponents of pessimism, coincidentally the most objectionable characters, and optimists in the best possible light, with proponents such as Martin Luther King Jr. I can assure you there were some Nazis during WW2 that were optimistic about the rise of their fascist empire, and some that were pessimistic. This article attempts to depict pessimists as dark, hopeless people that will never accomplish anything good. There are pessimists who are good people, and optimists who are bad people. That's all I can really say at the moment so I'll stop repeating this ad nauseam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brad2 (talk • contribs) 03:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
This article is about the term "pessimism" as it is used in philosophy, but I wonder whether we could do with a page on the term as it is used in psychology? This may be important, because, in the statement on hopelessness theory by Abramson, Metalsky and Alloy (1989), the authors appear to disinguish between clinical depression and circumscribed pessimisim. You can read more about hopelessness in the article on locus of control, in the section on attributional style. ACEOREVIVED 20:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
See this edit, which was fixed by another IP more than a month later. I haven't read through the entire page, could there be more vandalism? Merzul (talk) 10:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
The reference to Eisenhower was inaccurate and I have removed it. Eisenhower did not claim that the free market would harm American rights and liberties. He stated that the Cold War situation of a large standing army combined with the industrial system needed to supply it could do so, but that this could also be prevented by vigilance on the part of the government and citizenry. There was nothing inevitable about it in his opinion. This is not a pessimistic statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.235.17 (talk) 16:46, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
The introduction to the article asserts that pessimism is the "belief that things are bad." This is incorrect. The Latin word pessimus means "worst." Therefore, pessimism means that this world is the worst possible. A view that "things are bad" would more correctly be called "malism," because malus is the Latin word for "bad."Lestrade 21:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
--(Not logged in) but I wanted to note that I read somewhere in a related discussion regarding free will where philosophical pessimism was described not as belief that things were the worst they could be, but that things were the only way they could be, without assigning any attributes of goodness or badness. I'm not sure if that was an accurate description, however.
Completely US based, as such pretty irrelevant outside of the US. elpincha (talk) 15:57, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Can someone try returning the section cultrul pessimism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.215.217 (talk) 18:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
"it is ultimately helpless to prevent us from serving it"
wat --213.130.252.119 (talk) 21:09, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm a bit to lazy right now to make additions to the body of this article, but why are there no discussions of defensive pessimism or the variation in psychological "pessimisms"? I'm sorry if I've made a few spelling errors, which I probably did. Canadianism (talk) 04:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
The glass is not cylindrical. Its shape distorts and clouds the point, appearing to be objectively more than half full. Suggest you use something like this. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 11:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
Philosophical Pessimism has a long history that has recently been forgotten within academic circles. This article is poor in that it links both the psychological and philosophical outlooks. I think these should be separated into two different articles. I feel that the philosophical tradition has been slighted by this article. Furthermore, the variations within philosophical pessimism are not very well explored, in my opinion, in this article. I believe that Joshua Foa Dienstag's work on philosophical pessimism would be a good starting position for the philosophical article. 128.239.116.237 (talk) 20:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
What about Armand Sanglier, who, in 1903, wrote, "The nice thing about pessimism is that everything turns out exactly as you expected"?Lestrade (talk) 00:30, 9 February 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
None of us seem to understand. Every article that relates to pessimism carries an extreme bias toward optimism. Optimism causes bad planning. Optimists assume that they won't be raped or murdered, they won't crash their car, their marriage won't fail, their investments will work out, they'll win their bets at the track. Pessimists understand that suffering and disappointment are inescapable, inherently part of all risk, and that preparing overmuch for these outcomes is also likely to fail. They become more interested in learning how to cope with life, and less interested in fighting it. The Internet, like the world of psychology/psychiatry, is full of people who are disproportionately privileged, and thus we don't understand just how important it is to expect ill fortune as a matter of course, especially in the rest of the world, where babies still die starving. We don't fucking get it. Pain is much worse when you don't think it's coming.
So I have added a lot to this article and when I do this I feel the need to explain myself.
I made a whole new section on "philosophical pessimism", my main guide to this was Dienstag's book on Pessimism, added more key thinkers for major proponents of pessimism and revamped the Schopenhauer section.
I removed the references to Nietzsche in the "criticism" section and developed these themes in the section on Nietzsche, for Nietzsche did not really criticize pessimism as such (rather some specific pessimists like von Hartmann), he was more concerned with attacking self denial and nihilistic forms of resignation (Schopenhauer, asceticism).
Merged 'political' and 'cultural' sections, I felt you couldn't really separate these two if you were going to talk about them at all (though I admit the merger might still feel a bit jumbled so any helps appreciated).
Added material to the "environmental" section while also renaming it "technological and environmental" for clarity. While technological pessimism and environmental pessimism often go hand in hand these days, it is not exactly the same thing.
I removed "moral" section, no sources and really, afaik, there is no such thing as "moral" pessimism, unless you mean some form of social/cultural criticism which would better fall under the cultural section. Nietzsche would more likely be a moral nihilist or perspectivist, not a moral pessimist (whatever that is).
Renamed "intellectual" section to epistemological which makes more sense philosophically anyways, also removed Gorgias reference, which (besides having no sources) really constitutes a sort of 'metaphysical nihilism' instead of any form of pessimism that I know of.
Let me know if there is something I should change or work on. (Javierfv1212 (talk) 03:36, 4 February 2013 (UTC))
Is there any source attesting this as a Stoic precept other than Burkeman?80.47.102.164 (talk) 18:57, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The picture of the gentleman thumbs-downing the beer is too glib for what most regard to be a serious, philosophical position. (and indeed, I believe it is a personal picture, given that a reverse image search yielded no other but from Wikipedia.) I therefore changed the picture to one of Arthur Schopenhauer, one of the most well-known, highly-regarded philosophical defenders of pessimism. Let me know what you all think of this change. Steeletrap (talk) 00:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't know wether it has any relevence here, but I stumbled across this the otherday James' disproof of pessimism
To a bean-counter it's twice as big as necessary.
I'm pessimist and I think not all the pessimists will say the glass is half empty and i don't think all optimists will say the glass is half full.I think the glass is half empty and half full.
The half-empty glass analogy is not a good metaphor. Pessimism is the contention that this world is the worst possible. If it could become worse, it would not be possible for humans to live in it. See Schopenhauer's Proof.Lestrade (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)Lestrade
The glass is 95% empty.--124.148.206.165 (talk) 11:04, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
For future reference, if anybody wants to hashtag sadness, use this: #hamlet GermanGamer77 20:09, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Do we have anything anywhere on "terriblizing" ("terriblising")? John Perry Barlow defined it as something like optimizing for the possible rather than the probable, not realizing that there is no limit to how bad a result could possibly be. There's probably a more formal name for this. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 08:19, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Wow. Arthur Schopenhauer in the same breath as Stephen King. Schopenhauer would be proud. Maybe I'm being optimistic. --Tysto 09:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, and that'll be Stephen King. He shouldn't even be mentioned in this article.
"Famous Pessimists: Voltaire (most notably Candide)"
Voltaire was not a Pessimist, but a meliorist, as was (after rather painfully acquiring wisdom) his character Candide. The recommendation of meliorism is in fact the entire lesson of Candide. -- 201.51.166.124 05:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Per the Candide article,
96.28.43.27 (talk) 01:22, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Saying that Rousseau and Voltaire are pessimist is an insult to their work. Scandalous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.157.252.40 (talk) 23:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
I'm asking a favor, can you give a example of technological optimism and technological pessimism? 210.185.171.223 (talk) 14:03, 5 December 2021 (UTC)