This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
Patrick Kisnorbo is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
It should at least be a B-class. There's plenty of sources. Spiderone (talk) 12:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I (Wolcott, my account was banned dunno y so I'm using an IP) requested to the WikiProject Football for an assessment of the article back in April, but to date they've swiftly ignored my request, and I've sent multiple reminders. I feel someone should just take matters into their own hands and assess the article himself. 220.255.7.157 (talk) 13:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of short stubby one and two sentence paragraphs. See if you can combine some of them to help the prose flow of the article
This is still a concern. --Ealdgyth - Talk 14:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are lots of acronyms and abbreviations in the article that aren't explained. Examples: OFC, AFC, FC, SPL, UEFA, FA.
This isn't always practical. I've seen a few good articles where UEFA, FC etc. aren't written in full Spiderone (talk) 16:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, it should be fixed so that it's not required to be a football fan to understand the article. If the guy suddenly starts dating Madonna or something people outside of football will want to find out about him and will not understand the acronymns. I've reworked most of them.--Ealdgyth - Talk 14:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Jargon: Lots of jargon that isn't going to be understood by non-football fans. Examples include "avoid the drop", "was linked to", "disallowed goal was actually onside", "free transfer", "second bookable offence", "in friendlies against"
You've got two different date formats going in the article, most are Day-Month-Year, but there are a few that are Month Day, Year (lead is where I notieced it, but there may be others)
DoneSpiderone (talk) 16:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC) I think I got them all[reply]
Lead:
Lead is a bit skimpy. A good rule of thumb is that every topic meriting its own paragraph should have a mention in the lead.
This is still a concern. --Ealdgyth - Talk 14:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"He is a fans' favourite at Leicester City.." shouldn't that be "was a fan favourite", since he's no longer there?
First paragraph, the first sentence isn't really a sentence. You have no subject. I think you mean for the period after Trieste to be a comma, and the second sentence to actually be a clause?
I'm assuming that the "collapse of the Australian national league" refers to the "defunct National Soccer League" in the previous paragraph? It's unclear in this context. It's not helped by the fact that the link "national league" goes to a disambiguation page. (which needs to be fixed)
This bit makes no sense: "... he made his move to from South Melbourne FC to SPL side..."
DoneSpiderone (talk) 15:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC) It was just a typo I think[reply]
This sentence: "Recommended to Hearts by club legend Dave McPherson,[8] Kisnorbo quickly cemented his place as a first team regular where he made 48 appearances in two seasons, scoring his only league goal in a 2–1 win over Hibernian on 24 October 2004." one, it's run-on and very convoluted. Two, it's got an unencylopedic tone: the "club legend" and "quickly cemented his place" are better suited for the sports pages in a newspaper, than an encyclopedia article.
You say "even scoring a goal against Portugese club..." but there is no explanation of why this is important or impressive. Remember that not everyone reading the article is going to be a football fan.
The whole second paragraph of Leicester City is unreferenced. It also has unencyclopedic prose, such as "change in fortunes for Kisnorbo, and his fine form alongside then-teammate Paddy McCarthy was instrumental in helping Leicester avoid the drop that season." needs to be reworded. Another bit that reads more like the sports pages is "His initial displays for Leicester came in midfield, and some under-par performances culminated in him being booed by his own fans during a 2–1 defeat ..."
More unencylopedic prose: "... In the 2007–08 season, Kisnorbo suffered relegation with the club, but was also the victim of no more than three poor refereeing decisions..." "victim of" and "suffered relegation" need to be reworded.
I'm unclear what exactly "Leicester were however, fined £3,000 by the Football Association in response to Kisnorbo's teammates, who angrily appealed to Joslin during the match." is trying to say. I get the gist of it, but it's convoluted and difficult to parse. Perhaps: "The Leicester club was fined £3,000 by the Football Association, however, because of Kisnorbo's teammates angry appeals to Joslin during the game."
Try to vary the starting word of the paragraphs in Leicester. The first two start Kisnorbo, the middle three start "his" and two more start "he". Variety will help the prose flow.
Also borderline unencyclopedic :"His injury was a major blow to Leicester's hopes of surviving in the Championship." (the "major blow" part might be reworded)
"He returned to action the following season in a 2–1 reserve win over West Brom on 15 October,[33] coming on as a substitute in a 1–1 draw against Oldham Athletic on 18 October 2008." you've conflated two different games into one sentence, which is confusing. Suggest breaking into two sentences.
Run on sentence "Despite this it was reported on 28 April that manager Nigel Pearson had told Kisnorbo he can leave on a free transfer the following summer alongside fellow Australian Paul Henderson as the club begin their preparations for their Championship campaign the following season." it's also unclear what is meant by "Despite this" and it has verb tense agreement issues. Perhaps try: "It was reported on 28 April that manager Nigel Pearson told Kisnorbo he could leave on a free transfer the following summer."
It's a football news site like any other. Unfortunately I can't always find the stuff I want on the Telegraph, BBC etc. Spiderone (talk) 15:28, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but why is it reliable? Not everything on the web is reliable. --Ealdgyth - Talk 14:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done I replaced them where I could Spiderone (talk) 15:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Overall needs some prose work. I've put the article on hold for seven days to allow folks to address the issues I've brought up. Feel free to contact me on my talk page, or here with any concerns, and let me know one of those places when the issues have been addressed. If I may suggest that you strike out, check mark, or otherwise mark the items I've detailed, that will make it possible for me to see what's been addressed, and you can keep track of what's been done and what still needs to be worked on. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Further concerns:
EU restrictions, what are these and why is it important to the article that he can bypass them?
Still very choppy prose because of the short paragraphs. Suggest combing some more into larger paragraphs.
Done It doesn't look too chunky now does it? Spiderone (talk) 16:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good work, but still a few concerns that are mentioned above. --Ealdgyth - Talk 14:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I"m passing the article, but it should be noted that some concerns about the referencing and the prose still remain. If you intend to try for FA status on the article, I strongly suggest further research, a peer review and a copyedit by someone unconnected with football. --Ealdgyth - Talk 17:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I think it's unlikely I'll try for FA status since he just isn't notable enough and there aren't enough reliable sources. Maybe if he plays in a World Cup or something it could happen. Spiderone (talk) 08:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much guys for making this a good article. Massive improvement too, way better than mine, well done. Wolcott (talk) 08:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A few users, particularly Tholynski, has been adding information without adding a single source. As a result (if I'm permitted to do so), I've tagged the Leeds United section. Despite giving said user a link to citing sources months ago, he appears to have plainly ignored me and has since continued adding info without a reference. I feel this user's editing will cause this article to lose its GA status, not that I care anymore as I've gave up on it long ago. Wolcott (talk) 18:24, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have just modified 2 external links on Patrick Kisnorbo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ((Sourcecheck))).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check)) (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
I have just modified one external link on Patrick Kisnorbo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ((Sourcecheck))).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check)) (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
I have just modified 3 external links on Patrick Kisnorbo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check)) (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
I have just modified 2 external links on Patrick Kisnorbo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check)) (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.