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Jackson's extensive history of plastic surgery is never even mentioned in this article. That seems like a big oversight to me. Is the omission intentional? --Osbojos 01:04, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Michael jackson denies having plastic surgery.--Billy 01:04, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
So what? He's had it, and it's one of the noteworthy things about him. (So is, arguably, his denial/admission of it.) --ProhibitOnions 20:09, 2005 May 9 (UTC)
Jackson admits some plastic surgery. Most of it is controversial and hard to prove one way or the other. It is also becoming more common these days, so who cares. User:McTrav
How is hard to prove that Michael Jackson has had plastic surgery, just look at him
it is quite plain that this fellow has had significant facial plastic surgery, and moreover he is world famous for it. It is a major oversight that this article does not metion this. Duracell 13:37, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What is it with the comment about the nose, and what's typical with "African" noses. I think, it's generally accepted that a shared trait with person's of African ancestory is they are more likely to have a wider nose. Now, those with mixed ancestory, whether in America, or North Eastern Africa, will share traits with other racial groups, like Arabs and whites. This is pretty murky controversial subject, so I'm not going to change it, since I don't know what to change it ot. But, maybe the whole "are wide noses related to being of African descent" thing should just be removed altogether. The the only "nose comparison, should be between Jackson's old nose, and his newer ones. Also, I would like to point that, Michael Jackson has admitted to nose surgery. He merely denies it's more than two times, and denies it was to change his appearance. He said it was to help him breath better, and therefore sing better. --rob 2 July 2005 16:10 (UTC)
"He is a generous children's friend, but he has also repeatedly been accused of sexual abuse of children and is, as of March 2005, on trial for alleged child molestation and other offenses."
Does this strike anyone else as a bit less than optimal for the second paragraph of the article? I don't know anyone who would use that phrase. Also it seems a bit less than neutral really, I know what is meant, but what exactly do those words really mean? Perhaps it needs some editing to something more intelligible?
Neither "generous" nor "friend" is neutral. --62.254.0.38 21:11, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps if you just stated the facts: He donates a lot of his time and money to help children. User:McTrav
This article is overweight and needs to be split into 2 in order to guarantee editorial freedom. Put your proposals here, and I will hopefully do the split on Sunday on the basis of consensus reached. I am putting a note at the top of the article to let readers participate in the debate. Squiquifox 22:04, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I have brought the issue of whether articles should be split/slimmed or not to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Squiquifox 03:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I think it's a little ridiculous and NPOV to say that Jackson "is known as the King of Pop", without further explanation. You may remember that the reason he has that tag is that in the full flush of his fame, after Liz Taylor - apparently unprompted - referred to him as the "King Of Pop, Rock and Soul" at an awards show, his own press agent issued a directive saying that Michael was now to be referred to by that title at all times. Notwithstanding his many more recent protestations that "I don't know where that 'self-proclaimed' stuff came from", it most definitely *was*. Hence the press affection for using that handle to refer to him - it was seen as a striking example of hubris, on a par with the floating of the big Michael Jackson statue up the Thames to launch "HIStory" and the infamous Brits performance that Jarvis Cocker disrupted...
Michael Jackson never gave himself the name "King of Pop". This was never self-proclaimed. It was coined by Elizabeth Taylor and Michael Jackson fans picked adopted it for him after that.
"his own press agent issued a directive saying that Michael was now to be referred to by that title at all times." << That is a lie. And King Of Pop title was never SELF Proclamed, Oprah even assisted Michael Jackson in her 1993 interview with him and said Michael or any one in his camp ever said to call him The King Of POP. In that same interview Ms. Taylor noted that she was the one who first called Michael Jackson. The King Of Pop, Rock, And Soul, and his fans therefore continued to call him the King of Pop.... "The Self Proclaimed" junk was added on by the Press and Media to belittle his status and create new rumors about Jacksons "Diva" antics. You can not prove that "King Of POP" was self proclaimed, but in many ways it can be Disproved that it wasn't.
The article currently refers to Michael as one of the most successful African American artists of all time. This is makes it seem as if he were popular only by some lower African-American standard. While it is important that it be mentioned he is black, this is a bad way of stating it, considering he is arguably the most famous living person on the planet.
I cleaned up the discography/filmography section. Two things to note:
--b. Touch 05:15, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
There are two sections called "Miscellaneous", should they be merged or one renamed? --OGoncho 22:25, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
LEAVE THESE PHOTOS OFF. I don't want to start an edit war, but these pictures clearly have no right being on here. Only Fair Use, PD, Creative Commons, GNU... images should be shown in the article. Discuss this matter if you don't think I'm right, before reverting my corrections. -- user:zanimum P.S. These photos do look fantastic, and enhance the article, I'm not debating that by any extent. I simply don't want Wikipedia to get it's butt sued off by Michael or any professional photographer.
(Photos removed -- they were interfering with the formatting of this talk page and probably don't legally belong here either. 128.61.70.49 18:02, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC))
You sure the Captain EO pic isn't a screencap? --b. Touch 06:33, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Look tards, "what some perceive as an eccentric lifestyle" is already a bloated, weasel-worded enough phrase, you don't need to put "eccentric" in quotes.
Does Michael Jackson really write his songs on his own, as he states f.e. in the Bashir interview, or does he let other do that job? Thanks, --Abdull 15:54, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I eliminated the phrase "the most successful artist in black music history". Michael Jackson does not write and sing black music. He sings music. He himself is black. If someone else wants to indicate this information somewhere else in the article, they are welcome to, but the former usage was unsuitable, for many of the same reasons as discussed above. Michael Jackson is plenty famous in his own right, he does not need dumb qualifiers to pump up his success.
Furthermore, that link was completely irrelevant. I was expecting to see a chart with record sales or something and instead I read about Eminem. 128.61.70.49 18:02, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I know there is a seperate article on the trial, but I believe the general article on Michael Jackson needs to have more on it than it has now. Why have completely meaningless 'miscellaneous' but so little on the trial? I mean, it's not because of his music that he has been in the news lately, is it?
Aren't there too many pictures at the top of the article? The whole text becomes distorted. Why not move two of them to other places in the article, or delete them completely? Luis rib 16:39, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Anyone notice the freaky yelling among the fans at the court scene?
Is this simply the dark side at the far end of a screaming "tradition" started by Elvis and the Beatles fans?
Not to mention Frankie Sinatra and Franz Liszt.
--Scroll1 07:34, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
It says:
E3 to E6 is 3 octaves exactly, not 3.5. Anyone with any musical training whatsoever can recognise this. What gives?
He started singing career at the age of 12? ("born in 1958, began his career in 1960s") That seems a bit weird to me...Could somebody tell me more about this? Thanks:) --Eternal 06:49, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The introduction in this article states that he is a pedophile. it is of no interest to this article in particular to decide if he is or not. Therefore, that statement must be erased in order to preserve the neutrality of it. With that being said, webmasters must decide. Thank you.
People keep removing reference to the nickname Wacko Jacko. Please quit removing it. It belongs in this article. This article mentions his positive nickname "King of Pop". It should also mention Wacko Jacko, to maintain balance. This nickname is extremely well known. A google search on it generates well over 100,000 hits. [1] Wacko Jacko even redirects to this page. Please quit removing it. 12.221.158.143 11:45, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Please don't state matter-of-factly that Jackson was a pedophiliac in the lead paragraph. He was found not guilty on all of these charges, so stating that he is a pedophile is POV. JYolkowski // talk 01:22, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Rhobite's talk page is full of people complaining about his bad edits. Okay, now "Jesus Juice" should be left. It's not in the trial despite its significance. It also is something older than the trial. And blanking out edits is wrong. You should edit them instead. Not every article matters to you but it may to someone else. You can shorten something without erasing it completely. Outright blanking an edit is vandalism. Besides, this page is even missing a section on Michael Jackson's child abuse; someone obviously deleted it when they shouldn't have. Also the significance of the race card is important whether or not you refer to the daily show, and so is the ambiguity of what race jackson is. Thodin 04:32, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
My edit regarding this wasn't POV. I was removing something which was. This link: http://outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher23.html doesn't refer to the alleged "jesus juice" besides them both having the word juice in it. It was just something a Japanese student wrote on an assignment I guess. That paragraph implies that the "Michael Jackson juice" comment written by that student is evidence of there being allegations of Michael Jackson giving wine to children before this trial, when such a connection can't possibly be drawn. 210.50.86.119 15:28, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I came across this today. http://anomalies-unlimited.com/Jackson.html It is a history of his face from before plastic surgery to present. I think it should be a link to this page. Also do the pictures of him count as fairuse? There are several in there that should be included in the Plastic surgery article. Shorthair 02:54, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Example of what this link would be a good source for "He has, however, been dogged by media fascination with his changing physical appearance and what some perceive as an eccentric lifestyle, resulting in his being nicknamed Wacko Jacko." Where is the proof? None of the linked sites have it. My link about the plastic surgery does. I suggest an annotation right there so it would be like this (for the text I am paraphrasing and simplifying a bit): "Michael Jackson...plastic surgery...controversy...nicknamed Jacko...[2]" Can you see how much nicer that looks? Now people can't reasonably just change it or remove it to how their personal biases to MJ goes. I mean one guy recently removed the Jacko reference, which others have debated here and decided to leave on. Shorthair 16:28, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The reason Jackson has a Wikipedia article is that he is a famous singer. Every famous singer has, or should have, an article here. He is not in Wikipedia because he is an alleged pedophile. Not all alleged pedophiles have, or should have, an article in Wikipedia. I would argue, therefore, that the material on the alleged pedophilia should come after the sections on his music. Please do not misunderstand me: I am not arguing that we should whitewash the article by removing the pedophilia accusations. I am merely suggesting that we should recognize that readers are primarily interested in the pedophilia accusations because Jackson is a famous singer. Deleting Unnecessary Words 23:24, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I love the fact that plastic surgery is a link at the bottom of Michael Jackson's page! Deskana 23:27, 25th June 2005 (GMT)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Michael_Jackson&action=edit§ion=27
I like the irony too of the photo caption "Michael Jackson in 1987". Mandel 02:10, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
You guys need to find something better to do with your lives than defaming celebs. Try joining the Anti-Defammation League www.adl.org User:W wanderers
The article mentions the supposed value of this asset. Nobody knows the value. Any reference to value, should either mention acquisition cost, secured value, or cite the specific source for the current values. It should not state as fact a single "value". Estimates vary wildly from half a billion, to several billion. Valuing a privately held intangible asset is pretty dubious.
This claim is included with no footnote: "In his lifetime, Jackson spent over $50 million for the charity, excluding such fund-rising projects as..."
Now, this may well be true, but it needs proof. Also, there have been controversies with where money went with some. Any statements about charity, must be balanced with that. Although, for starters, I would be happy with a single reputable article that says somebody confirmed the grand total. Jackson's former spokesperson, Raymone Bain, was found to have released phony names of non-existent charities to the media, although these did not involve financial donations[3]. So, there has to be an independent source other than Michael Jackson, his people, and any organization of fans. Just to be clear, I think the $50 million could be true, it sounds very consistent with what I have heard, but I don't see the proof in the article. Also, please note, that the sentence above, doesn't include examples of the $50 million, but says the mentioned funds are actually "extra", on top of this. I haven't deleted this claim, since I actually think it's probably true, and it's easier to prove, than disprove. --rob 2 July 2005 16:25 (UTC)
[The information below is correct, but it does not include singles and albums sales of michael as child on Motown, this would increase his sales dramatically. His sold at least 300mil albums+singles as a solo artist. The jacksons 170mil seems correct, though it would great to have break down of albums + singles sales. I refuse to believe that Madonna, Mariah or Celine have sold more than Michael(their sales look somewhat correct and(although I believe some of Mariah sales are inflated) their discraphy information are so much better mj's they have detailed album+singles sales - its not fair!). It's really difficult to find out record sales of Motown artist ie Stevie Wonder too. Motown website does give up to date sales data - it should! Michael released 6 ablums with motowns, 4 child albums + one in your life lb+ farewell my summer love lp+ Best of MJ. I hope his website does a full update on his sales, we'll probably have to wait till him releases new material unless somebody can find out sooner. Please someone find out soon!! Perhaps someone should email our discusion to his website so that the staff can update us (Anonymous fan)] :-
It seems the number of "records" MJ has sold is changing every day, up *and* down. Here is the latest version:
"He has sold about 300 million records worldwide as a solo artist and another estimated 170 million records with The Jackson 5 and The Jacksons."
Now check out the official web site: http://mjjsource.com/main/index.php?option=content&task=category§ionid=3&id=67&Itemid=28
Now the article (last time I checked) says 300 solo record sales. That's over 50% more than Michael Jackson's own web site claims. I ask the next person to edit this, to find an independant reliable third-party source, and then place a footnote by each and every number you place. At this moment, I do not know for certain if the above is a complete solo record list.
I suggest the correct figure is 173 million. What do you think? --rob 4 July 2005 23:21 (UTC)
Extra issue: the comparison to Elvis is irrelevant and also undocumented. Saying somebody outsold somebody in a year (2002) is unclear. Does that mean total dollars, total records/albums, singles, what? Is that birth-to-year-2002 sales? Do post-death sales count? The fact Jackson "outsold" Elvis, shortly after he outlived him, doesn't seem to prove anything. In fact, it shows, that at about the same age, they had about the same number of sales. Not a big deal. I don't see the relationship to racism. I say drop the Elvis issue. Note, if you go to the Elvis article, it says Elvis' sales records have been topped by "nobody".
artist"
See, both artists have outsold all others, including each other. --rob 5 July 2005 00:28 (UTC)
I removed the comparison to Evlis, since there is no proof to back this up. Please cite a source, and define the statistic carefully, if you wish to add this back. I will now go take a look at the Elvis page, to see if there is still the reciprical claim their. --rob 7 July 2005 00:50 (UTC)
Some, who follow changes, may have noticed periodic links to "isitscary.com" have popped up. I placed a comment in the discussion page, to discuss the validity of it's claims of "official" status. The "isitscary.com" person comes from a changing IP address (like 172.201.82.10). S/he has deleted all the discussion (after initially editing my words). So, first, to whoever did this, a non-admin should never edit/delete another person's discussion, without their knowledge/consent. If links to isitscary.com re-appear, with unsubstantiated claims of being "official" they will be promptly deleted. Oh, and please sign your comments. --rob 22:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
User:161.74.11.24 made a number of changes to the intro, and while I like most of the changes, I tweaked some of the grammar and structure, and removed references to "King of the Music Video" and the idea that "most people" consider Thriller the best video ever. "King of the Music Video" turns up very few non-Wikipedia mirrors when searched for on Google, and I'm afraid the Thriller as best video claim will need to be sourced or qualified. I doubt the population of the world at large even has an opinion on the best music video. AиDя01DTALKEMAIL 17:58, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
Elvis - Tεxτurε 22:10, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Hey the site says that Elvis is the "King of Music." Which is totally different from being the King of music videos. furthermore isnt that a fan site? Elvis did not make many music videos and MJ is known for his music videos, so that is a very lame attempt ot try to say that Elvis is the King of Music videos
The introduction section contains too many BEST words and looks more like fan-page or advertisement. - Vorash 11:04, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Hey, I'm the guy that is doing all the editing on the Michael Jackson page. First off, I don't know any of you but if you want me to be honest, I had to cut down some of the stuff said in the article. First off, I put the vitiligo/skin disease issue at the Miscellaneous Controversies section so you didn't have to put that back in there. And also for those statements of "Michael is fond of children" and blah, blah, blah, I didn't think it was that necessary to make it seem like people will look at "is fond" as a bad thing so I wanted to edit that part. And as for the "Black or White" edit, I created an article for the video so you can put your information there on that article AND the video so it doesn't distract from the topics in between it. And also for the repeated statements: "He got cleared off charges... he got cleared off charges", c'mon, EVERYONE knows he was cleared, you didn't have to repeat it. And sorry if I sound rude on that, but yeah, it didn't have to be repeated five times. LOL Anyway, also the page is MUCH too long and you're putting the [[ ]] on songs that ain't even in ARTICLES yet. But if you will, I'll put articles to the songs so you wouldn't have to worry about the red that's on the page. And for the top, Michael Jackson is not only a singer, dancer, writer, and producer, but he can arrange too and he is a humanitarian as well as a philanthropist, so I thought I just cut that out. Also, he didn't BEGIN his solo career in 1979, he began it in 1971 so that's the reason I edit that part because he just didn't get into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame on the basis of AFTER "Off the Wall", he had some influential records as a solo artist in the early '70s too. Anyway I hope you understand why I feel I needed to edit certain parts. Also, again, the page is too long for preferrable reads. Ain't it like 32 kilobytes in maximum or something? That's why I'm editing the page and please don't edit back, LOL. And again, was all that VOCAL stuff necessary except for what his vocal type is, you didn't have to go over other stuff like he sung in this length or that, just provide the link to it like a summary on the external link page. And to correct some of you, Michael Jackson recorded "Rockin' Robin" in 1971, NOT the late 1960s. BrothaTimothy 16:02, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
Vorash recently excised a large amount of text from the introduction as "POV." Included were:
Two of these are clearly not POV at all, and the other two are debatable. Please discuss this here rather than removing the text from the article unilaterally. Thanks. android79 17:12, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
Also, "He has sold about 250 million records worldwide as a solo artist and another estimated 170 million records with The Jackson 5 and The Jacksons" was removed in an earlier edit by Vorash. While I agree that this fact needs to be sourced, and that it should probably stay out of the article until it is, this information is useful, and if reliable numbers for Jackson's sales can be tracked down, it would be good to have. android79 17:18, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
King of Pop is POV, its the same thing as saying that Madonna is a Queen of POP, clear POV statement !!
The fact that Liz Taylor gave Jackson the nickname, and that he is widely known by it, is not POV. The MTV/Rolling Stone list establishes Jackson's music's extreme popularity. For good or ill, MTV and Rolling Stone are widely considered authorities on popular music, and presenting their opinion on Jackson's music is not POV. Its presence in the introduction is fine. android79 17:33, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
"MTV and Rolling Stone are widely considered authorities on popular music". Who say that ??????????? "authorities" ??????????????????? What is this ??? Presenting opinion of only one Music channel and only one Music magazine is POV !!! YOu probably have some more 100 magazines that will say that Jackson's music is a crap !!
Also there is no any need in 250 million unverified figure here, we have all Jackson's album sales numbers in his discography. We also don't have any verifiable figures about Jackson 5 sales. Vorash 17:45, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
It is a verifiable fact that Jackson is widely known as the King of Pop. Whether or not he should be is another thing entirely – to make a judgment there would be POV, and is thus not present in the article. Rolling Stone and MTV have helped define trends in popular music for 38 and 24 years, respectively, and even if you and I don't agree with it (I personally dislike most of Jackson's music and his lifestyle and actions), their opinion deserves a mention in the article. I challenge you to find across-the-board criticism of Jackson's music from any source at the same level of respectability as either Rolling Stone or MTV. If you do find such criticism, it should be added alongside the RS/MTV claim.
If there isn't any verifiable data on the Jackson 5's sales, that's fine, but if Jackson's sales numbers as a solo artist are reliable, they should be added back in. android79 17:57, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
Ain't this some confusing mess? I don't know... the musical analysises of Michael Jackson's output probably shouldn't had been included. I don't know. And as for Michael's album sales, the confirmed number is 173 million albums in total. That's the only thing I would've allowed in. Maybe we should delete much of that intro, what you think? Good and bad thoughts on MJ's music probably shouldn't be included for various reasons as somebody said, it's POV (point of view). BrothaTimothy 18:10, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
What do you mean "It is a verifiable fact that Jackson is widely known as the King of Pop" ????????? What does it mean King of Pop ??? It means subjective opinion - POV!! The one and only verifiable fact is that the Michael Jackson was a very popular singer !!
Also there is no such a thing MTV opinion !!! It's just a subjective opinion of random MTV's current workers, that created this list of popular songs - subjective opinion is POV !
Jackson's albums sales numbers are "reliable" but we don't have any numbers about singles. Vorash 18:18, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
I read that but still, I mean, it can be viewed in a different way. Yeah I might have been a little too harsh on the "removal" part. Maybe we need to add a page to that, if not trivia, something else entirely. And even though Liz Taylor gave him the title of the King of Pop, I'd rather give him the respect (Michael, that is) that he is one of the most successful artists in music history. None of that Liz-proclaimed or self-proclaimed BS. Just view him as a legendary musical force as well as a very popular singer. But I do see what you mean about how much his musical output has been praised. BrothaTimothy 18:28, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
"reporting that "Michael Jackson is a very popular singer" would not be sufficient – sources such as the MTV/Rolling Stone list are necessary to provide some context for that statement" - would not be sufficient ??? Sufficient for what ?? For Michael Jackson's fans ?? Vorash 18:30, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Very funny: "It is not POV for us to report the fact that "The King of Pop" is a well-known nickname for Michael Jackson" !!!
If Wikipedia became NEws Egency why it reports only POSITIVE facts. ??? Vorash 18:43, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
"He is also known by the nickname "The King of Pop"", but "The media therefore began referring to Jackson with the nickname "Wacko Jacko. POVs continue. - Vorash 18:58, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Look User:FuriousFreddy "I WILL request that Voarsh be banned if he contnues vandalising" is a personal attack !!! - Vorash 19:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC) Removing POVs statements is not a vandalism !! I will request that you will be banned too !- Vorash 19:38, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
So what are you saing ?? THat i will be banned because i putted NPOV tag ??? Thats what you saying ?? Admimistrator User:Mel Etitis also removed the statement "Many consider Madonna to be one of the most iconic and influential female figures of the late 20th century." in MAdonna article. So he should be called VANDAL too , and he should be banned too ???? Vorash 20:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Removing the NPOV tag while the "actual accuracy of the article is disputed" is in fact a VIOLATION oF WIKIPEDIA policy and VANDALISm !!! THats what YOU should understand , not me !! So your and FuriousFredd actions are actions of vandalism, because you remove a tag before a discussion about POV statements is finnished !! Vorash 21:41, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Also about Madonna, It the same thing here: you don't quote any sources !!! You say "He has been referred to by some as "The King of Pop"." Where is your sources for this info ?????????????? If you don't have any sources, it's a POV and should be removed !! Vorash 21:46, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
I thought it was just the single! LOL When did the album come in? First things first, wasn't the album named USA For Africa? And "We are the World" was the only thing Michael did on that USA For Africa album, I believe. I don't know why it was verified as an album. LOL! BrothaTimothy 18:18, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
What is this with including songs that didn't even PEAK in the top 5 of either the US or UK charts?! There was a reason I edited that because if songs peaked at #6 downwards, why SHOULD it be included when it said TOP FIVE? LOL! BrothaTimothy 18:37, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
I took care of the NPOV concerns noted by Vorash, in both the header and otherwise. I also re-structured the article so that information about Jackson's musical career prefaces the information about his personal life (which is the standard for most other music articles; there's no reason why we jump from Gary to neverland and then BACK to Gary). Also cleaned up and expanded the "Misc. controversies" section (does anyone know the date of Jackson's post-arrest press conference from the eary 90s?) --FuriousFreddy 19:20, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
I've just copy-edited the article and brought it into line with Wikipedia style. The only major excision was the details of Jackson's vocal range, which are (as I've ascertained at other articles edited by the same person) original research. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:06, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
...is there any particular reason why Michael Jackson cannot be labled an African American? It's a verifiable fact, it's not POV in any way, and it helps when you start talking about transracial changes, skin color changes, etc. --FuriousFreddy 14:13, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
Then what is to be added then isnt he an African American man, all the other singers who are African Americans are listed as such, so Mel Etitis what is your problem?
Is there any particular reason why all of Jackson's music statistics were moved to a new article? The main aritcle on a musician should have at least some of his hit singles and albums listed. --FuriousFreddy 13:06, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm about ready to give up on this article. Vandals and POV-pushing anons routinely make significant changes, some of which remain for a long time. I thought the last revision by FuriousFreddy was rather good, though I hesitate to revert all the way back to that version. What we need is a "Last Known Good" version of this article, with consensus-supported structure and content, to which we can revert when one of these waves comes through. Hell, maybe we could turn it into a FAC at some point. Anyone want to help? android79 22:01, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure I like this template. If it is intended to just list articles related to Jackson's discography, then it should probably just go on Michael Jackson discography and album and single articles. If it is intended to list all articles related to Jackson currently available on Wikipedia, I propose that a Controversies section be added to it, including links to Allegations of child sexual abuse by Michael Jackson in the early 1990s and 2005 trial of Michael Jackson. I'd prefer the former. android79 20:24, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
Should this article mention anything about Michael Jackson's current situation? Should it be mentioned he is, and has been since the trial ended, staying in Bahrain and recently visited Dubai? There are also recent photo's of Michael Jackson in Dubai circulating the net.