This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Michael Howard article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 27 April 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
I'd like to know more about his background -- basically, how posh was his upbriging? If his family were so poor, how did he end up at Peterhouse, one of the poshest Cambridge colleges? And cambridge tory students are also very posh and their circles are difficult to infiltrate?
There is something called upward mobility. At severe risk of name-dropping, I know his son and can tell you that his father always instilled into him the value of working one's way up from poor immigrant to successful businessman. Hardly a crime - if it was my dad would also be at risk of arrest since he went from a small terraced house in Bolton to being a director of Taylor Woodrow! Crowqueen 02:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I find the English obsession with "posh" distasteful, and in this case irrelevant. Howard was one of the generation who benefitted from free education. In fact grants then were more generous than they are now, and you got them whether you went to Cambridge or any other university. In addition, from what I have read, by dint of hard work and financial acumenn, his family had become successful shopkeepers and were not poor. Millbanks (talk) 22:14, 1 June 2008 (UTC) Two points/one..Its rather frightening that people writing here have no idea of the generosity of higher education grants from the end of the war through until relatively recently.Lack of money prevented no one from the finest university education.Its part of what was called socialism but thats a word that people need a dictionary to understand these days.Second..since theres a lot here about his Romanian father,what abouit his mother...Her name Kershion doesnt sound welsh but perhaps I am merely ignorant..
Is Howard his birth name? Just wondering if his Romanian Jewish father had the name of Howard. RickK 01:28 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Hmm. While one expects the Telegraph to be OK, most of the other hits I get on this are either far-right BNP-type sites, or radical Islam sites, both complaining about "the evil Jewish conspiracy", etc. If Michael Hecht was his birth name, you might expect more reputable hits... Evercat 15:17, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Bah, can't trust even the broadsheets. :-) [1] from the Guardian says Romania, and says "The family name of Hecht was anglicised to Howard" though doesn't clearly say whether that means Michael was born Howard or Hecht. Probably not worth worrying about... Evercat 15:32, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I was just going to ask this same question as to whther he was born Howard or Hecht. Anyway I've put in the original family name in a way that leaves it ambiguous. Mintguy 09:38, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Just want to add my two bobs worth, some inside knowledge if you like, being born and bred in llanelli, I was informed when they moved to Llanelli they moved to an area adjacent to Park Howard ( a local Green area with small museum, and place where the eisteddfod once was) this Park was named in Honour of the famous Howard Family who were wealthy landowners and one of the families who opened Llanelli up to the industrial revolution. the first mayor of llanelli was indeed "Sir Stafford Howard", so my point is, when his family moved here, they took the name Howard to mimic this family and its rich origins. Only coming from llanelli could one know this to be correct ;o) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.55.55.39 (talk) 11:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
According to Rulers [2] he was born Hecht. And according to Have I Got News For You, and Radio 5.
Alun Ephraim 10:55, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
As I said I know his son so I will get both of them to comment on here! Crowqueen 02:26, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Birth name "Michael Hecht". Registry of Births Jul-Sept 1941 Volume 11a Page 1839. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 08:25, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I think it looks a little anachronistic to describe Sandra Paul as a super-model. She worked as a model in the 1960s. Did celebrity escalation set in so early in that sector? I will change this to 1960s model if no one objects. -- Alan Peakall 17:54, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
"The comment was taken as a bitchy reference to his dour demeanour, which she was implying was sinister and almost Dracula-like, as well as linking in to his Romanian ancestry." (my emphasis)
I might be crazy, but isn't it rather in bad taste to refer to a statement made by a member of the British government regarding a member of the Cabinet as "bitchy"? Barring that, it seems rather blatantly POV, which is not at all acceptable for a man who may end up being asked to kiss hands in a year or two. Wally 19:27, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
He was definitely dour in the Home Office, but by the time we met in 1999 he had rather livened up again. If you are being knocked around in the liberal media, wouldn't you end up lacking a sense of humour? Anyway bitchy is still the wrong word, it was - I believe from other sources - a way of actually ameliorating something worse that someone was about to make up about him to gain maximum publicity after the election and to really scupper his leadership chances for good. As it was he was able to prove himself in opposition by 2003 and lead the party to make substantial gains, and campaigning with him in 2005 I was able to see that he had maintained his 1999 sense of humour. Crowqueen 14:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Is it right to describe Paxman's questioning on Newsnight as a 'filler' to extend the interview? A video of the interview can be found here. The interview continues for about 2 minutes after Paxman gave up this line of questioning. Was he really filling time? Mintguy (T) 10:07, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I've checked footage of that interview, and it is 14 times!
Moved here from article:
I'm not sure where this can really fit in... Evercat 18:19, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I like to have the odd quotation in a biog, but I know if I put this in by itself it will be regarded as POV. So, I'll rest it here, and then when there's a range of quotes maybe it will make it in (crosses fingers).--[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod » .....TALKQuietly)]] 18:20, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
It's a true quote, but it is from a biased source. In my own political research, time and again during the 2005 election I was able to prove that the BBC purposely spun its election coverage to belittle or ignore the Tory support on the ground. For example the Sunday before the election, I observed two papers come out wholeheartedly for the Conservative Party (The Sunday Express and the Sunday Telegraph) and two more advocating a Conservative protest vote in order to strengthen the opposition to the Labour Government in the House of Commons (The Mail on Sunday and The Sunday Times). However the BBC discussion of the papers deliberately stated that there were no Sunday papers which came out for the Tories however lukewarm their support: a palpable untruth and one which destroyed my faith in anything put out by what is essentially a state television channel with no revenue that is not sourced directly or indirectly from the government. Therefore I would not consider BBC quotes to be a reliable source of information. The quote could have been taken out of the general context of the article: Margaret Thatcher did say, for example, "There is no such thing as society". However the extended version of the quotation is "There is no such thing as society, merely a collection of individuals and their families." The bias is in how the quote is reported, not in the actual quote itself. As a junior minister Howard was indeed involved in setting up the poll tax, or more accurately the Community Charge. However a junior minister is necessarily responsible only for administrating and enacting legislation, not responsible for policy (as Howard claimed later, quite rightly, the other way round when he was challenged over the sacking of Derek Lewis and ministerial responsibility for the Prison Service). As a Cabinet minister at the Department of the Environment, Howard put together the Council Tax, replacing the flat-rate Community Charge with one based on a sliding scale dependent on the value of the payee's home. Therefore the actual quote could be taken to mean that Howard is apologising for the mistake but rectifying it when he gained responsibility for policy rather than operations. Unfortunately politics today is reported in soundbites and there are very few attempts particularly in modern broadcasting and print media to look at the finer details in government operations. Crowqueen 21:48, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The article says "given Howard's Jewish faith". I don't believe its shown here (or elsewhere, for that matter) that Howard is of the Jewish faith (indeed, I can't find any mention of his religion, if he has one). Perhaps this should read instead "given Howard's Jewish ancestry". - John Fader
Howard is a member of St. Johns Wood, a liberal synagogue in London.
I met him and his son in 1999 at a party in London while I was a student. I talked long and hard with his son (to my regret I was far too starstruck to talk to Howard himself, except the usual pleasantries, who I admire as a sort of political mentor) as I was going through a spiritual crisis myself and wanted to convert to Judaism given that I could accept a belief in God but not in Christ's absolute infallibility, and the exclusive nature of fundamentalist Christianity at the university CU was getting me into a panic that I would have to toe that line. I can indeed confirm that Howard is Jewish and raised his son in the Reform tradition, but his son "completed" his faith by converting to Christianity at Eton. I actually stayed in touch with Nicholas Howard for a while after and can explain that the UFO incident was not actually a UFO but a false alarm. Crowqueen 11:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I see this was added and reverted. So is it true or not? :-) Evercat 18:31, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
http://www.michaelhowardmp.com/biog.htm for conformation. I've never seen the claim disputed.
He should know the facts and figures. It is a shame he has to perpetuate the myth about his own career but doubtless sooner or later he will be able to correct it. I suspect even he has to spin his own biog at the behest of party hacks. Records indicate that he remained at the DTI from 1985 until he was made Secretary of State for Employment, but sadly neither the Conservative Party itself nor the BBC can be bothered to check Hansard. Crowqueen 21:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I just found out that Lynton Crosby the former director of the Liberal Party in Australia is running the campaign for the Conservative Party in the upcoming general election. Why on earth did Michael Howard allow him on board because I don't think voters appreciate a foreigner telling them how they should vote. Mind your own business Crosby. In fact if you are so keen to get yourself involve in the campaign why don't you help out the Liberal Democrats instead, after all they almost have the same name as your party.
Go home Crosby!!!
"Hmmm, you sound like one of the rabid Bush supporters who responded to the Guardian's letter-writing campaign with such unexpected venom last year." I am not a Bush supporter and I do not know what you are talking about.
"I'm not sure why it bothers you that a foreigner might encourage you to vote a certain way' You obviously haven't heard the outcry over Bush interfering with Australian politics.
"I'm not sure why it bothers you that a foreigner might encourage you to vote a certain way'" You obviously have never heard of the Prime Directive.
This article states that his father was an asylum seeker, yet other sources, including Michael Howard himself state that he was an economic migrant, which is true? -- Joolz 18:37, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've contacted Michael Howard's office, who confirm that Owlperson is a hoaxer. I've indef blocked User:Owlperson and User:Crowqueen. Tyrenius 13:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the PC suffix as techincally it is not used for a 'commoner'. Membership of the Privy Council being signified by the prefix Right Honourable (Rt Hon). Members of the nobility who hold Privy Council Membership signify membership by using the suffix PC rather than the prefix Rt Hon, although using both in this context is acceptable. For more information refer to most editions of Whitaker's Almanac. Tgsh2005 30 June 2005 22:27 (UTC)
Dovea 19:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I know this isnt political but should some info be included on the UFO incident which took place at Howrds house in the 1990's? Supposedly the fire service was called out and firemen "observed" something above the Howards house.--Redblossom 21:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
The article currently claims Michael Howard as a second cousin of John Howard. But John Howard's family have, according to Wikipedia, borne that surname for multiple generations, while Michael Howard's parents adopted it within his lifetime. Is someone pulling our legs on this? Nandt1 (talk) 23:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Further review shows that the user who added the original claim has been perpetrating repeated acts of vandalism in multiple Wikipedia articles, and I have now deleted the claim. Nandt1 (talk) 00:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
User Daicaregos tells me that under some sort of Wiki convention, Neil Kinnock is Welsh not British, so to be consistent I've chaned Michael Howard's nationality to Welsh. Ausseagull (talk) 16:47, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I enjoy and use wiki frequenty it is why admarabe except for one thing..its obssession for ceaselessly trying to break up or destroy any sense of Britishness.Here is a tiny entity called the British isles.Whereas a huge country like America hammers American nationalidsm into every citizen,in Britain every tiny group tries to ceaselessly stick its head upfor attention..Why..Were does this sense of inferiority come from...In my seventyfive years I have never heard anone trying to put dow the welsh or scots etc..And once you get into this game it doesnt stop..Is Howard Welshyou ask ...Ah but is he NORTH welsh or SOUTHERN welsh..theres a big difference just as those people pressing insanely for Cornish independence would soon find a civil war on there hands between the north and south cornish...What one wonders do the the Chinese IndiansTurks etc let alone the Americans think of this childish puerile nonsense.One can read thousands of words about Olivier Newton Johns nationality in wiki.It really is time for Wikis obssessional British hatred thing to be dealt with clearly...It is for example most offensive to call someone like Prescott orKinnock who have worked ceaselessly for the British nation and people welsh.Whatever strange groups are doing this it should be stopped and clear new rules drawn up.It demeans the entirew wiki project
Ya'll know my views on this topic. Therefore, I won't repeat them. GoodDay (talk) 19:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
And Abse's friend George Thomas, Lord Tonypandy, is referred to as British! Ausseagull (talk) 22:16, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Quite a few other MPs caught up in the expenses scandal in 2009 have a section or prominent mention - odd that this article doesn't. This is quite well known now, so perhaps deserves mention - as does his response to the Telegraph claims.
Michael Howard claimed expenses to pay £44,000 to Conservatives
Michael Howard claims £17,000 for gardening expenses
Michael Howard rejects claims on expenses
I removed "released in 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act failed to corroborate this last quote." from the end of the paragraph about the "Did you threaten to overrule Derek Lewis" interview. Seems to be a bit 'meta' and perhaps intended as an invisible comment? --81.23.54.142 (talk) 22:06, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on Michael Howard. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add ((cbignore))
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add ((nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot))
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 04:30, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
The Controversies section references potentially racist remarks about the Anglo-Boer War. These comments are currently also attributed to a different Michael Howard - Michael Howard (historian). Not sure how to verify which one it was but I doubt that both Michael Howards appeared on the same edition of Newsnight and said the same thing.
2.96.83.150 (talk) 18:26, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
@Bchilds: Greetings. We both want this article to be fair. I added the Times reference to the Somali business interests bit + an internal link & thought at the time it was accurate. I'll check it again in a few days but the Times is a valid UK wp:Suggested sources#currentnews which unlike WSJ is a source many UK editors use. The Daily Mail is a dodgy tabloid, most recently in disgrace just last week -see Nigel Farage's car tampering. Feel free to comment, otherwise I'll update in a few days. Regards JRPG (talk) 14:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
@JRPG Greetings. I agree that we are both looking to make the article as accurate as possible. The internal Wikipedia article that was linked on Corruption in Somalia contained out of date information, apparently based on a Financial Times article behind a paywall. The contract with British Soma Oil and Gas firm was not cancelled by the Somali Government (as a quick reference to the company website will show). Regarding the Times article about corruption and paying the lawyers fees for the Somali Government, it seems that that information would be much more appropriate in the internal page on Corruption in Somalia. That page is in great need of updating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bchilds (talk • contribs) 21:53, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm removing the controversy re blood libel because the US source is not one of the WP:Suggested sources#Current news. It has so seriously misunderstood the context that it's in danger of having any UK readers convulsed in fits of laughter -and yet it purports to believe it is discussing a very serious issue. I didn't like Ann Widecombe's totally unfair personal comments re "something of the night about Howard" but to a UK audience, it raised thoughts about Dracula -which is exactly what the Guardian portrayed. Few have heard of blood libel let alone associated it with Howard. JRPG (talk) 16:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Michael Howard. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:06, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Michael Howard. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template ((source check))
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:08, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
The first paragraph of this article says that he served as Secretary of State for Employment and Secretary of State for the Environment and Home Secretary, but it could put in the years in which Michael Howard served these posts. Vorbee (talk) 08:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Looking at Michael Howard (disambiguation), two questions:
I might WP:BOLDly move the article at some point if no-one objects. Carcharoth (talk) 02:26, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
So move the article per WP:NCBRITPEER, and leave Michael Howard as a redirect to the new title, rather than to the disambiguation page, leaving hatnote the same as before? Carcharoth (talk) 14:36, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Does this read correctly? Does he really have eight O and A levels? He obtained eight O-levels, and A-levels, gaining a place at Peterhouse at Cambridge University. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Indieshack (talk • contribs) 02:06, 9 February 2022 (UTC)