Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 30, 2007Articles for deletionKept
March 18, 2008Peer reviewReviewed

To help life become as powerful as possible[edit]

I added this item, tracing it to two sources. Specific quotations:

John Stewart created http://www.evolutionarymanifesto.com/; the pdf is also available from https://philpapers.org/archive/ESTTEM.pdf. There is a related Wikiversity course Wikiversity:Intentional Evolution.

Whether this is popular I do not know but there are at least two people above who apparently independently published similar ideas and a third person is the author of the Wikiversity course.

Some objections and reservations to the ideas are available in the comments section of the Guardian article. Multiple comments echo the objection that there is no direction in evolution, a position held by Stephen Jay Gould. An obvious objection to Stewart is that expansion beyond the solar system is impossible given current knowledge. An earlier Stewart's article is The Meaning of Life in a Developing Universe, web-archive.southampton.ac.uk. Dan Polansky (talk) 08:05, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dan Polansky: I removed the reference to David Hockey's book, which is self-published (WP:SPS) by an author who does not appear to be otherwise notable by Wikipedia standards. We would need a reliable independent secondary source to establish that his views are more worth including than any other David who has used the Internet to self-publish musings about the meaning of life. Biogeographist (talk) 14:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Biogeographist: David Hockey's book has ISBN and is on Amazon[1]. The paper book is self-published by "Stephenson-Hockey Publishing", but does it make a difference? To answer myself, a self-published paper book seems not much better than a web page, per your quoted WP:SPS: "That is why self-published material such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs (as distinguished from newsblogs, above), content farms, Internet forum postings, and social media postings are largely not acceptable as sources." --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:34, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Correct, and that's the only book published by "Stephenson-Hockey Publishing". Case closed, I think! Biogeographist (talk) 18:14, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To help life produce another fine-tuned universe[edit]

The section title can be gleaned from the two sources mentioned above in #To help life become as powerful as possible.

To my mind, the above is a sheer wild fantasy, not even science-fiction; I have no idea what it means for a universe to produce another universe as long as causation is within a universe and we have never observed any other causation. And if we consider a universe to collapse and expand again, it is unclear how something within the universe could ever affect parameters of its physical laws. But it is there, in these sources. No petty goal indeed. I hesitate to add this to the page in the mainspace since it sounds so crazy, but there are other crazy items there such as to become immortal using scientific means. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dan Polansky: As I mentioned in the previous section above, David Hockey's book is self-published (WP:SPS) and therefore is not a suitable source.
I would note that this topic ("To help life produce another fine-tuned universe") and the previous one that you mentioned above ("To help life become as powerful as possible") are both teleological. I see that someone perceptively included Teleology among the "See also" links in the Fine-tuned universe article (it's also mentioned in the "Religious apologetics" section of that article). Teleology and Ultimate fate of the universe are both also linked in the "See also" section of this article. By the way, teleology is more related to the sense of "meaning of life" as "purpose" rather than as "significance". (On this distinction, see, e.g.: Martela, Frank; Steger, Michael F. (September 2016). "The three meanings of meaning in life: distinguishing coherence, purpose, and significance". The Journal of Positive Psychology. 11 (5): 531–545. doi:10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623.)
This stuff reminds me of some of the wild speculations of the technological singularity community. Biogeographist (talk) 14:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Purpose of life redirects to Meaning of life and the two terms seem to be often used interchangeably, although the implied metaphorical meanings seem to be slightly different. I understand the implied meaning of "purpose of life" (what is it for?), whereas I am not all that confident about meaning (what does it mean, right, but I am not sure what the word "means" means there.) Technological singularity seems pretty wild and implausible to me as well, not least since Moore's law is running out of steam and improvements of chip technology are limited by atomic level and cannot exponentially grow for a whimsically chosen period of future, but producing and fine-tuning a new universe is on a whole different level of "wild". --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:31, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, to be clear, I didn't mean to imply that it didn't belong in this article; I was just stating as an aside that there are various aspects to "meaning of life", and teleology is one of them. I probably said more than was relevant. Biogeographist (talk) 18:14, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The depth and breadth of this article[edit]

I have reviewed the entire article and made several edits. The subject is complex and this article, rather than taking a freshman undergrad approach to the topic takes a more expansive one, which I appreciate. While I could make it more focused with less detail, I'm leaning toward thinking that would be a mistake. Thus, I'm proposing removing the two tags at the top of the article that were placed there seven months ago. Is there any discussion on this topic?

I agree Spicemix (talk) 15:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Under "Mahayana Buddhism", there are better items to site in Wikipedia[edit]

The description for Mahayana Buddhism in this article is fairly uninformed about Buddhism. I would cite the Buddhist Philosophy article for more information on the topic. Also, Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism both appeared about the same time. The idea that Theravadan beliefs are older than Mahayana beliefs is a recent view. (Recent meaning around the 18th century.) Pfstevenson32 (talk) 13:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reconsideration of including "Ways of Life" philosophies[edit]

Shouldn't "meaning of life" focus strictly on direct interpretations of life purpose, without philosophies that prescribe ways to live. Stoicism for example, guides living rather than answering the existential question directly. NeutralNugget (talk) 09:27, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2024[edit]

Thinglandowner (talk) 21:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Meaning of life is to expand as far as possible like a virus so that it can't be destroyed, that is why humans exist, to help life expand across space and to live for as long as it can. Making you as a human being a insignificant part of a much larger goal.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]