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Marie Curie, also known as Marya Salomee Sklodowska, was a true Pole. She was under the rule of Russians which forced the Poles to speak and learn the Russian ways. In her early childhood people just called her Manya, not Marya. But as she grew older her sister, Bronya, and her decided to save up enough money and move to France to become doctors. When Manya moved to France, just to blend in she changed her name to Marie, and then got married to a man Pierre Curie, which changed her last name to Curie.
-K.K.
"... she was not allowed admission into any Russian or Polish universities..." There were no Polish universities at that time. It was just after January Uprising and all Polish universities were shut down by Russians.
"She and Linus Pauling are the only two people who have won Nobel Prizes in two different fields." Huh???? What about Einstein?
Einstein only one the Nobel Prize once, not twice!
Could someone in the know clarify what is meant by the "sometimes reeking of xenophobia" statement (in reference to the scandal). Is the article saying that xenophobic things were said about Marie in the press in reaction to the scandal?
Listening to NPR's Talk of the Nation radio show about Marie Skłodowska-Curie, I heard the author of a recent book about her emphasize that she was proud of her original Polish surname "Skłodowska" and preferred that it be included in her name. I think that was said to be on her gravestone, and the common usage outside of France also. Can someone confirm this? I also see references to "Marie Curie-Skłodowska", and even "Skłodowski". --NealMcB 21:47, 2004 Dec 10 (UTC)
Looks like her dad's last name was Sklodowski, and hers was sklodowska - perhaps the spelling is due to difference in gender?
Yes, the difference in ending is a male/female distinction. I have maternal ancestors who are Ukrainian and Polish. For example, Mr. Sklodowski's wife is Mrs. Sklodowska. Their male children are surnamed Sklodowski, and their female children are surnamed Sklodowska. This is normal and accepted in Poland. In the United States (particularly at Ellis Island), it caused some confusion. To conform to the United States custom, families typically adopted one form of the surname or the other.
130.13.1.230 (talk) 01:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)John Paul Parks130.13.1.230 (talk) 01:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Maria (or Marie) Skłodowska-Curie is correct.--Emax 16:45, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Great entry, but it tends to repeat itself in a number of places. Also, the grammar could use some polish.
One book on Curie (by Sarah Dry) says that her Polish name was "Manya" (Marie is the French version). Anybody know enough Polish, or enough about Curie, to know if that's true? --Fastfission 02:22, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Nevertheless, moving the page to 'Maria Sklodowska-Curie' is a mistake. She is overwhelmingly known as Marie Curie. The Google test gives the ratio as something like 1,700,000 to 11,200. If you are now working through all the 'what links here' links, and they are all dab links for 'Marie Curie', that tells you there is a problem. Remember, Wikipedia naming convention puts a page at its most common usage so that if someone guesses a link they usually get it right. It has nothing to do with political correctness. As it stands at the moment the article doesn't even mention her French name in the lead paragraph, so anyone following a link for 'Marie Curie' can't even be sure they arrived at the right page. By all means mention and discuss her Polish name in the article, but leave the page where people would expect to find it. -- Solipsist 19:24, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
Numbers(http://www.google.com, Advanced Search): [1] 27,400 English pages for "Maria Sklodowska Curie". [2] 15,000 English pages for "Maria Curie" -Sklodowska.
Listowy 13:01, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Numbers as of September 2006 (http://www.google.com, Advanced Search): [3] 39,200 English pages for "Maria Sklodowska Curie". [4] 29,000 English pages for "Maria Curie" -Sklodowska.
WizardFusion 20:18, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
The commemorative plaque gives her name as Marja Curie-Skłodowska. So I would suggest sticking with Marie Curie for the simple reason that there are no variants to her French name. ~ trialsanderrors 23:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
--14:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)CyberbyberNo Way! no one would know who she was!
Id' like to add my zwei groschen to this discussion. Maria Skłodowska was *never* named Maria Curie-Skłodowska, it was communist propaganda. She legally changed her name to Marie, then married Pierre. Nevertheless, she is so widely known as being Polish, that IMHO there's no need to fight reality in order to regain her as a Pole.
LMB (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I have reverted to MOSforever's version because 24.13.141.112 added copyvio content from Britannica. A couple of recent changes to the remaining content have been restored. GeorgeStepanek\talk 20:56, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Maria Sklodowska-Curie → Marie Curie – She is overwhelmingly better known by the French version of her name, 'Marie Curie'. Maybe there is a PC or nationalistic reason to use the Polish name, but it is a long way from gaining common currency. I randomly checked half a dozen links from its 'WhatLinksHere' and as expected all of them were dab links for [[Maria Sklodowska-Curie|Marie Curie]], most interwikis use Marie Curie and the Google ratio is 1,700,000 to 11,200 in favour of Marie Curie. Of course the article used to be at Marie Curie and it looks like the change was made last December following comment on a recent biography. Personally I didn't notice until someone got round to updating the page links earlier this month. In any case it looks like a move that needs wider attention. — Solipsist 05:55, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 10:41, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
The article should be moved back.--Witkacy 21:51, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
After all of my studies, I still remain unconvinced on the veracity of the Langevin Scandal. That such stories were circulated by a zealous press is true, but whether an affair between Marie and a married man ever happened is questionable. In fairness to historic accuracy, this article should reflect that whether such an affair really happened is unknown. Her five closest friends, repected academians, testified that the press' accounts were bitterly concocted and the letters forged. --Chrisbaird.ma 01:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
I've just cleaned up a line of vandalism connected with this item. It had persisted through quite a number of other edits. It's disturbing how much vandalism this page gets. Charmii 02:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I read in the article she's been Polish-born French-chemist. It's a lie. She was Polish-chemist. A woman that leaves her home country and marries a foreigner doesn't make herself French. Remember that both her parents were Poles (and of course Maria was born in Poland - though occupied by Russians).
So I'm trying to answer your question.
Suppose somebody from France leaves that country and spends the rest of his/her life, for instance, in the United States - but this very person doesn't reject his/her French roots. Do you believe that people from France would agree to call him or her an American, especially if he/she was two-times Nobel Prize winner? I don't think so. I have never heard that James Joyce wasn't an Irish writer though he left his country quite soon and didn't use his native language in his literature. This is also the case of some Polish writers that were compelled to emigrate (very often famous, like Witold Gombrowicz), but nobody calls them Frenchmen, Germans and so on. Probably if Maria Skłodowska wasn't a woman and didn't change her last name, it woudln't be so easy to write "French chemist".
Thus my purpose here is to convince you (and other people as well) that we shouldn't create an erroneous impression or belief that something was more complicated than it really was. It's sufficient - I think - to stress the fact that France was her home (and more), but on the other hand she has never forgot her home country (she established scientific institutes in Warsaw). And in the result I want to prevent the situation you can see in "Young Einstein" movie (I know, it's a comedy, full of irony): Einstein meets young French woman, Marie Curie. Probably most people in the world believe Frideric Chopin was French (the case of this composer is of course a little bit more complicated), and that British mathematicians broke Enigma codes (British were not able to admit somebody else did it - but in the face of more and more proofs their minister did it recently).
As for those sources that call Skłodowska French chemist: you will not find it in Polish literature. But I understand why this is a hard case for French: this woman was the first woman ever to teach at Sorbonna and buried in Panteon: it's not possible she is not French!
My advice then is such: though philosophers don't agree what the truth is, I suggest not to complicate the truth if this is not necessary. Sounds like Ockham's razor, isn't it?
All the best, Greg
===== "hard case for French" ===== you mean easy case for Poland who have bad habit to get natives Nobel prizes in science for other country like for USA Albert Abraham Michelson 1907 Nobel prize for physics, and 3 times for France : 2 Marie Curie and Georges Charpak 1992 Nobel Prize in Physics (multiwire proportional chamber). Why Poles don't brag about Michelson ? because he was American and they are less easy than today's french ambassy or his place of birth was nothing to him ? Get fun of www.poland.gov.pl as of 19/09/2005 The Nobel Prizewinners : "MARIA CURIE SKŁODOWSKA Maria Skłodowska-Curie (1867-1934), renowned Polish physicist and chemist" is aggressive english version "MARIA SKŁODOWSKA CURIE Maria Skłodowska-Curie (1867-1934) - Physikerin und Chemikerin." neutral german and for french version MARIA CURIE_SKŁODOWSKA title is all you can get no article yet.
Times to get Charpak to renew Polish citizenship he is still and well alive and may agree ! Double citizenship is ok more than ever with Europe. Or they prefer to wait some decades ? (Oh WAIT ! in Wikipedia they don't need to ask him if he want to choose or even if citizenship have a meaning for an atheist scientist : Polish agent of self-worth minister already made him a Polish something in English and French version).
For the diploma picture you could put the 1903 too, where to see it ? prizes are for alive scientists and the 1911 may have been from swedish naming convention or as science community aknowledgement of his rights to a new love life...
Sure, I will!Greg, 02 Sept, 2:50 PM (GMT)
The thing is, Marie Curie obtained French citizenship. She possibly also had Polish citizenship. However, she did all her higher education and scientific work in France. In Poland, she could not even study chemistry, let alone be a chemist!
Frédéric Chopin is known in France as a Polish musician. As far as I know, Chopin never requested French citizenship.
Benoît Mandelbrot is a French mathematician because he has French citizenship, despite working in the United States and being born in Poland. (Additionally, he did all his studies in France.) If he had acquired US citizenship, we would call him a Polish-born US mathematician. (In addition, I heard Mandelbrot in person mocking people who pronounce him a American mathematician, saying that he was French and never acquired US citizenship.) David.Monniaux 15:17, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Did she consider herself French or Polish ? --Lysy (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
"Don't you know anything about Slave evil's games..?"
Is it a joke?...
Sure we need to know from the start of MARIE CURIE article what her birthname was (she put Skłodowski in her customs papers) BUT :
The current article chronology IS somewhat twisted by Skłodowska/Dolega lobbysts : From it, it seems Maria studied freely on Bronya's money, the other way is closer to truth, by the way she also choosed the Marie firstname in France. Then we get the feeling that from the start she had always wanted to do research with a hint on her futur path to the Nobel prize, she was the chemist of the pair and was the more qualified to choose the reactions to isolate the unknown element, guided by Pierre's electrometer readings. No doubt she loved Poland and Poland's people since her first goal was to return to Poland to teach there (more than her sister's couple and their free ride activist hobby in Paris). But in fact it was Pierre's many marriage proposals, which she initially refused, who won her to do research together.
I understand that Barbara Goldsmith needs to sell her new book on some PC/feminist trend and that all polish who can cry Dolega (tens of unrelated families) on Battle ground want to call her now Skłodowska and put Curie somewhere else (thanks for her children and true family). The pacifists and idealistics they were must appreciate the touch. If Poland had been a free country in their time Polonium atomic number would be > 86 now. I would like to read the description of Poland situation at this time to explain the choice, better than the lengthy nonsense about Langevin affair and anti-Semitism in place of sexism, puritanism, nobel no-rule race and yes xenophobia in between the WW from right wing toilet paper. The same type who want to call her Maria Skłodowska Dolega now wanted to defame her then.
What was her mum birth name by the way for the matriarchal type ? Be coherent.
please read : http://nobelprize.org/physics/articles/curie/index.html
ps: please rest assured that Poland from Napoleon to WWII start to today's wars, was Never in France an "unknown land". ps2: nobody to replace the hideous Polish bank note by the prettier Marie(& heavier;-) french one ? Happy to know so much about rupies change rate, Dolega !
A recent edit by Miskin, described as "She was Polish, get over it", also changed all the "ł" symbols to "Ŭ" symbols, which surely isn't right, and breaks many links. I have no opinion on whether Curie was French or Polish. I reverted Miskin's changes only to fix the orthography. -- Dominus 14:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted as someone changed her nationality in the infobox to Polish only (which wasn't changed in the main text) and made the first mention of her name in the lead into the Polish version, when it was already stated in brackets straight afterwards. I thought it was a bit strange and probably POV pushing, so I changed it back. Personally, I have no view on the nationality thing (I always thought she was French, but am aware popular perceptions can be soo wrong), so I don't think I'm POV pushing, I just thought it was our best consensus. If someone else thinks I did the wrong thing you can change it back. Terri G 18:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Feel free to take issue with me over my pronunciation of non-English words. That way I might come closer to getting it right the next time. :) --Macropode 13:43, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
It looks like we are on the verge of another revert war over nationality issues. In general Wikipedia takes a dim view of revert wars. Before changing the article again, can we first establish a clear consensus here for the most diplomatic/correct wording on nationality issues. -- Solipsist 12:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Let's get something clear, I'm not Polish and I don't have any personal connection to Poland nor anything Polish whatsoever. I'm making this revert from a completely neutral point of view, simply because I find the euro-centric French POV extremely retarded. Marie Curie wasn't just born in Poland to be mentioned as Polish-born, nor was she ever converted to another ethnicity. Marie Curie lived in Poland until the age of 18, which makes her purely Polish. The only special connection she had with France was the fact that she did most of her work there. What the French ignore is the fact that Marie Curie had always viewed herself as a Polish even when she worked in France (hence Polonium). It's certain that everybody in her environment (and anybody in France in general) viewed her as a foreigner, and we have the modern French petty-nationalists (who have forgotten all about the history of their country) trying to convince us that she was blatantly a French of some distant foreign background, and that was as much as Polish as Robert De Niro is Italian. In other words they think that they can apply their modern "we're all citizens of Europe"-type of theories in order to manipulate the ethnic background of someone who was born in the 19th century (like they do today with Tony Parker and Zinédine Zidane. And if nothing of that convinces you then just try to think realistically by putting yourself in her shoes: You move at the age of 18 from your Russian-occupied homeland in order to work in a "civilised" country. Would you change your ethnicity into something else? Would you wand some random nobodies 100 from your death to be claiming your origin? Do you honestly think that Marie Curie would be somehow honored to be known as a Frenchie? We all know the answer to that, well all except the French. In a world that's divided between Barbarians and French, there's not greater honour that being recorded in history as a French, so what's the point to even question what dead people's ethnic feelings were. I mean she's in the Pantheon and she's officially labeled as a French, what more could she want? Anyway as a compromise solution I suggest to write "Polish scientist who lived most of her life in France" (eventhough it's pointed out in the biography) or something along those lines. I don't think that there's a point in trying to just avoid mentioning her nationality. This is a solution oftenly proposed in wikipedia ethnic disputes that I don't understand. People think that neutrality means simply not take anybody's side rather than searching for the right one. Miskin 13:47, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
And there is no contention to have, Curie was French because she had French nationality, that's all.
This is the exact French POV I was talking about. Nationality is different to ethnicity in case you have never noticed. Have you ever heard of "ethnic goups"? The entire notion of nation-states is a modern (French-promoted) concept, which is independent of ethnicity. Go tell the Greeks who live in Constantinople that they're Turkish just because they have a Turkish nationality, or the Catholics of Northern Ireland that they're British. I'm calling this a French POV because France is probably the only European country that doesn't distinct between ethnos and nation. They think they will sort out all ethnic minority problems by labeling everyone as "French" and by using ridiculous terms such as Franco-French, Franco-Algerian and Franco-Polish in order to be politically correct when they're talking about ethnic groups of French nationality. That logic is probably perfectly correct in the French wikipedia, but is a POV in the English one. Miskin 15:21, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Due all the respect but the "black, Aryan, Yellow" example that you gave was completely out of order and irrelevant to what I said. And for crying out loud, just take a look a the French article: "Marie Curie-Skłodowska (Varsovie, 7 novembre 1867 - Sancellemoz, 4 juillet 1934), est une physicienne polonaise." - period. Then a short biography follows which describes her connection to France, there's not a labeling of "French scientist of Polish origin" like you people are on about, I mean what more proof do you want? I suppose the French editors were smart enough to ditch the nationalist POVs and get some serious work done. I often wonder why can't this happen in the english wikipedia. Miskin 15:30, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
She was born to Polish parents in Poland and lived there until the age of 18. Is it really rational to say that she was simply of Polish origin? A French person of foreign (Algerian) origin would be Zidane. He was born and raised in France to Algerian parents, something that makes him Franco-Algerian (but of course the article calls him simply "French"). This however has nothing to do with the case of Marie Curie. Honestly I thought that the "ethnicity vs nationality" question was common knowledge. I know this doesn't apply in France but only because the Franco-French (white French) have chosen to for political corectness, not because ethnic groups don't exist. Anyway for what my opinion matters, Julius Caesar was a Roman and not an Italian, simply because the Italian ethnicity and culture is a much later concept which originates from the North of Italy and has nothing to do with the Roman Empire (despite what fascists fantasised). Mozart would be an Austrian which at the time and up until recently was ethnically German. I'm not familiar with the case of Chopin. If you deny fundamental differences between notions such as ethnicity and nationality, then I have nothing else to say to you. Miskin 15:10, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
As for "That's the point where Austrians decided to choose nationality over ethnicity and pretend to be different from the Germans (for the well known reasons)", Hitler and many Nazi leaders were Austrians! (213.70.74.165 07:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC))
I don't understand the problem. Marie Curie was a Polish-French. She was born in Poland and raised in Polish culture (actually, there was no Poland at that time (see partitions of Poland), so I adjusted the article to note that fact). The article doesn't tell us when exactly did she move to France, but I guess she was in her 20-ties, so there cannot be any doubt that Polish culture shaped her significantly. Then she spend rest of her life in France, where she married and make most of her discoveries, so there cannot be any doubt that France became her second homeland. It would be interesting to see if she had any significant relations with the large Polish diaspora in France (see Great Emigration). I guess we would need to do some research into her letters/biographies/etc. to see if she herself valued any of those cultures more then other, but I doubt it, and I think it is pretty safe to refer to her as a Polish-French person. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:50, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
First of all, I'd like to address a possible misunderstanding here. In Poland, if a woman marries, she has the choice of either adopting the husband's name completely, or add it to her own with a hyphen. When she decides for the latter, it is regarded as improper, and, yes, even offensive, to address that person with only the husband's last name.
Secondly, feel I have to comment about "the naming convention argument": 1. The "general rule" that has been quoted is aptly named so, because it has exceptions. Without keeping this in mind, it is all too easy to fall prey of an ad populum fallacy. 2. Even if that rule is accepted without exceptions, nowhere it is said that the absolute and only oracle on what can be regarded as "common" is Google. With that in mind, I'd suggest to simply dig through papers, letters etc. of that time and see which variant is more comonly used (naturally taking into the account that most of those were published in France and in French), especially by the person in question herself. It would be certainly more productive than the current discussion, on both sides.--Miki
First of all, did she consider herself Polish, French or both ? Why did she insist on using her "Skłodowska" name ? --Lysy (talk) 11:59, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I must say this hair splitting discussion sounds completely useless. From all I read about MC she was a native of Poland and she was a French scientist. In Poland she is known as Maria Curie-Skłodowska, or just Maria Skłodowska; for obvious reasons in France the preferred form is Marie Curie. Both countries can be proud of her and let's leave it at that! Tsferreira 12:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
she was very smart and pretty
she was very intelligent.
I have just read the French and English Wikipedia articles on this subject, in research for my French AS oral. After reading this discussion I think perhaps I should have read the Polish one as well, however I don't know any Polish so that isnt possible. In the French article the beginning says this. "Maria Curie-Skłodowska (née à Varsovie le 7 novembre 1867 et décédée à Sancellemoz le 4 juillet 1934), connue en France sous le nom de Marie Curie, est une physicienne polonaise naturalisée française" This roughly translates as: Maria-Curie Slodowska (born in Warsaw on 7 November 1867 and died in Sancellemoz on 4 july 1934), was known in France under the name of Marie Curie, was a French naturalised Polish physician. To me that paragraph sums up who she was. She was morn Maria Slodowska and married Pierre Curie as was usual at the time she took her husbands name and now her maiden name is often used with that, before it as is usual. However, she is known in France under her married surname and the French version of her first name. Both her parents were Polish so she had fully Polish blood and she was brought up there. However she spent her adult life in France, took French citizenship, did all her work in France and set up a family there. Where is the problem with that, perhaps she is Polish and French. And perhaps we should stop quibbling over minor details and accept her for who she was: A great scientist, who was born and brought up in Poland but spent her adult life and did her work in France.
--04cah 14:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I think part of the confusion is from the different understanding of the words. In Polish, narodowosc is something totally different from obywatelstwo (nationality vs citizenship) that's why here people preferred to use "ethnicity". Simply, in XIX century Poland did not existed, but Poles were nto seeing themselves as Prussians, Russians and Austrians, and moreover were not seen as such by the respective states. Sklodowska-Curie was raised in culture, where nationality was case of one's choice and not of citizenship. Similarly, if I would move to France and had French citizenship, I would object to being called French. I won't touch the article since I don't won't to provoke revert wars, but is simple as that. The other example posted here (Charpak etc) are wrong, since the quoted scientists were nto tied as strong to Polish culture as Curie-Sklodowska Szopen 13:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Im curious by what is written below her portrait on the page - it says that her notes were recently decontaminated - How and when was this acomplished ? Does anyone have a link to a news article about it ? Dowew 02:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
I removed this temporarily. May be interesting if ref. and cited. As such, difficult to understand/verify. "She had absorbed so much radiation her fingerprints can still be seen on her journal, now stored in a lead box(Marcus Chown, The Magic Furnace)." pschemp | talk 07:37, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
According to what I have found, Marie Curie still lived a few years beyond the average life expectancy for her time, despite her excessive exposure to radiation. I feel it is worth noting.
Please read the Rosalind Franklin article and contribute to the peer review. Alun 19:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
she moved to Paris and studied chemistry and physics at the Sorbonne,
isn't math and physics correct?
--84.63.34.9 18:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
is there a source for the claim that she was an atheist? I've only found info suggesting that she was a lapsed Catholic. [5]. Homagetocatalonia 19:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I edited the article, writing that she was "the first two-time Nobel laureate (due to the effects of sharing, she effectively obtained 1.25 Nobel Prizes)." Somebody reverted this, claiming "You don't get a 0.25 nobel prize". This is not true, of course: the Nobel committee explicitly says how many percent of each Nobel Prize go to which recipient. Sometimes the Prize is equally shared among 3 recipients, and each gets 0.33 of the total. Sometimes one of the laureates gets 50 percent, and the other two get 25 percent each. Just check out the official Nobel Prize page. For example, Bardeen is a two-time laureate but his total is just 0.66 Nobel Prizes, less than the 1.0 total for certain one-time laureates who did not have to share with anybody. Unshared prizes have become rare though, since nowadays there are so many parallel research efforts, and most of the research is done by teams, not by outstanding individuals. That's why we have seen this recent inflation of Nobel Prize winners. Science History 13:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I respectfully disagree: obviously it's not true that all Nobel laureates are of equal importance! Some obviously had much more impact than others. One of them even achieved superstardom and became "man of the century", while most of them remain largely unknown. Here we cannot judge which of them deserved it etc. We just can report how the Nobel committee expresses its own view of the value of individual contributions by awarding fractional prizes. The official Nobel web site does not say: laureate X got "1/4 of the money". No, it explicitly says: "1/4 of the prize". I cannot understand why we are discussing this - 1/4 of the prize means 1/4 of the prize! X is still a Nobel laureate, of course (nobody is disputing this), but it's also clear that X could have done better. Be assured that everybody in the field, and especially the laureates themselves, are fully aware of the significance of these fractional prizes! Suppose the physics prize goes to 3 researchers, one of them gets 1/2, the others 1/4 each - it's absolutely clear whose contribution was larger in the eyes of the committee! The sum of the Nobel Prizes per year is constant; you may divide it among many laureates, but then the laureates necessarily become less outstanding on average. Science History 12:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Ignoring for a moment the fraction controversy for a moment, there is a disagreement between the text and the photo caption. The text says she was the only person to be awarded the Prize in two different categories. The caption says she is one of a few. I'm not aware of any others but I don't claim to be an authority. In any case, one of these statements is incorrect. --Jeepien 06:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Jeepien - she's the only person with Nobels in two areas of science - corrected! Science History 07:48, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, actually, no, it's still out of whack. Now the caption says she's the only person, but the text says she's one of two (the other being Linus Pauling). --Jeepien 00:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
She was a Polish !!! She must leave Poland becouse Russian was persecuted polish scientist. Many Polish was leav Poland. The polish epic (,,Pan Tadeusz") was wrote in Paris !!! Maria was visit Poland when she can. When Maria was old and Poland was free Maria was prepare for returned to Poland but she was died. I don't now why Maria was bured in Paris, she should bury in Kraków in Wawel when was bured polish king, scientist and poet.
Madam Curie was more of a physicist than a chemist. I don't understand how she is just a "chemist" given the fact that she studied physics, headed a physics department, and did research on it. That is the reason I added "physicist," to her professional description. --Ur
Shame the first sentence doesn't read well now, I'll try to sort it out but other people should take a look. Terri G 11:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Note, although Marie Curie's 1903 Nobel Prize was shared between three people, Marie was awarded 1/4 of it, Pierre Curie 1/4 and Antoine Becquerel 1/2. See: The 1903 Physics page on the Nobel Prize website. I reverted the edit by 213.40.3.65
Personaly I'd prefer to see the article talk about two prizes in general and detail the quarter share when talking in detail about the 1903 prize - as the Nobel Prize website does. --SiobhanHansa 13:42, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
The two templates at the bottom of the article (((Nobel Prize in Physics)) and ((Nobel Prize in Chemistry Laureates 1901-1925))) are closed (whereas on all other pages they are open. I can't seem to fix it -- could someone a bit more knowledgable give it a shot? 24.126.199.129 22:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I've done a bit of rephrasing in the biography section because at least some of it sounded slightly strange, perhaps someone whose first language is not English had added it. There is still one sentence that sounds particularly strange, which I have left in for the moment, as I don't know the truth of the matter.
"After graduating from high school at the top of her class at the age of fifteen, she was depleted of energy and was sent to the countryside to recover."
Apparently this has replaced something that mentions her having a nervous breakdown, which could have been changed due to the negative connotations of having a breakdown, but the replacement text sounds strange and unscientific, and without inline references who knows which is closer to the truth either. Terri G 17:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Although I don't recall the source, I remember reading that the Nobel committee originally nominated Pierre Curie but not Marie. He campaigned for his wife's inclusion in the award because her contribution had been more significant than his own - and her subsequent inclusion entailed a substantial bending of Nobel committee rules. It would reveal more to discuss that in depth than to analyze the "share" of cumulative Nobel prizes she earned. Durova 23:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I looked around online for something supporting this, but couldn't find anything. It seems a bit of a big claim to have happened and not be mentioned on some of the sites that look at how sexism affected MC's career. Has anyone else heard this? Any ideas where we might find a source? --SiobhanHansa 13:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
It appears there have been some fact changes is the last few days, and I'm not sure which are right, although I suspect they are spurious. The edits I am concerned about are by Kowalmistrz 20:24, 3 September 2006 (changed nationality back to Polish only) and 70.171.211.111 20:02, 3 September 2006 (some material facts changed slightly).
I might leave a note on their pages if I can work out how.Terri G 13:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
There is some disagreement over the infobox_scientist template. The template has been nominated for deletion and an IP has replaced it on this page (an numerous others) with the basic bio infobox. I reverted that change and cleaned up some of the problem fields. But I think it's something editors of this page should weigh in on, rather than it be about an infobox war. Personally I'm in favor of the template. I think it provides good summary information in an easy to find format that's makes comparisons with her fellow scientists straight forward and highlights her notability. There are discussions on the template page to slim the number of fields down somewhat and I think that will improve it. If we don't go with this box, I'd prefer to see the article go back to the picture with general description (see here[9]) than the plain bio infobox, which doesn't seem that informative to me. Other thoughts? --SiobhanHansa 14:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
As JdH said. Thew methods presenting information in ways that are accessible to many different readers with different needs are laid out in our policy and guidelines and they don't mention Infoboxes. --Pjacobi 11:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I think that the extended box is a bad addition, especially to ar article like this which has reasonable content.--Peta 11:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
The opening paragraph states "She was a pioneer in the early field of radioactivity, later becoming the first two-time Nobel laureate and the only person with Nobel Prizes in two different fields of science (physics and chemistry)."
However, a quick check of the Nobel Prize#Miscellany section shows that Linus Pauling also won two Nobel prizes in different fields, in chemisty and peace.Severnjc 17:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
You are correct. I should have read more closely. Severnjc 05:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
The image of the 500 French Franc note was ripped (and resized) from the one on my website (http://www.umich.edu/~jbourj/money1.htm) but no acknowledgment is given. (Check the serial number). I do in fact own the copyright of the scanned image and will allow it on this page only if it is given citation. ~Jacob Bourjaily
The "Tribute" section is very much trivia laden. Might that material be incorporated into the broader article?Olin 16:55, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Come on now. Read this and tell me most 12th graders couldn't do better.
'In an unusual move, Curie intentionally did not patent the radium isolation process, instead leaving it open so the scientific community could research unhindered. Just one month after accepting her 1911 Nobel Prize, Marie was hospitalized with depression and kidney trouble. Whenever Marie was feeling especially depressed she took a trip to the country to relax. ' (That was the last sentence of the paragraph)
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 15:23, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I changed the nationality back to Polish-Frnech after someone had mistakenly changed it from Polish to French born, Polish. It had been left at Polish for day, not surprising with so many edits. There seems to have been a strong consensus developed among editor who engage in good faith on the talk page, but the article gets altered frequently. I'm not that clear on why this is such an issue of contention/pride/confusion/whatever. Any ideas on better ways to deal with it? --Siobhan Hansa 04:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
yeah, the "problem" is, that she was born in Poland, not in France ...
The problem is that you can't say about Curie, that she was a French person! No! She was POLISH (born, grew up, educated). We are talking about her nationality, not her life or work, not about her person at all, as a hitorical great woman, only about a person related with homeland, the people and culture (in the first time of life, childhood, in grewin up). That's the problem! Think about it. Sorry for my English ;). Kowalmistrz 23:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
We (I, anyone too?) want to change the Infobox, for only Polish nationality. Not in the article "Polish-French scientist", I agree with that expression ;). She was wroking in France with French scientists, she had a French husband and her children was French since bor (Polish-French not officially ;)). But not nationality, SHE WAS ONLY POLISH. Merry Christmas and good luck :d Kowalmistrz 23:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
On the top right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.74.1.27 (talk) 12:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC).
The first line of the second section states "Born in Russia, partitioned Poland," Warsaw was situated in Congress Poland at the time of her birth. I'll edit this unless someone can show a source that contradicts this. haha
Hi. I made a few minor adjustments (gender does not mean quite the same as sex, curium does not need a capital, we don't use Spring xxxx for dates, etc), and was reverted by Logologist. I would never edit-war over such small issues, but I believe my edits unambiguously improved the article. If anyone disagrees, here would be a good place to discuss it. --Guinnog 14:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Why don't you get rid of the revert war by removing her nationality from her contributions to society? Just call her a physicist and chemist. That's basically what the French version of this article does and it works pretty well. Later sentences already say where she was born and how she moved to France. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jonemerson (talk • contribs) 07:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC).
Most of the text seems to have come from here. This is a shocking state for one of our core articles. User:Veesicle 00:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Why does the infobox state "polish" for nationality? This is plainly false for a person who held French citizenship and whose remains were put inside the Pantheon (which is btw not mentioned in the article). In my opinion the "nationality" field should say 'French', and the lead should say 'Polish'. This sounds like a good compromise. Miskin 16:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
(deindent) I have removed the flags. It might be worth adding in the body of the article what her actual legal citizenship was at different times, or it might not. Part of my dislike for using flags in infoboxes is that it obscures the complexities and subtleties of something as unusual as Madame Curie's national background. Let the information in text stand for itself; our readers can read. --Guinnog 05:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
was french?????
Should it be included in the article that Marie Curie is an anagram of "Came Radium"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.118.203.33 (talk) 14:27, 22 April 2007 (UTC).
I don't recall where I read that it was unfortunate that Marie Curie named this particular element "polonium," in view of its short half-life and the metaphorical implications for her native land, if it regained independence. The remark might have been in Eve Curie's biography. But... if this gets deleted, it's no crucial matter. Nihil novi 03:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
According to [10]:
“ | Marie Curie's family religion was Roman Catholic, but she became an anticlerical atheist on the death of her mother and older sister. | ” |
Note that this section of about.com is not a Wikipedia mirror. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the article's structure to know a good place for this tidbit. Somebody more familiar with it should do it. It's, however, sufficient for keeping Ms. Curie's original classification as an atheist. Digwuren 18:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Try this on for size:
“ | Curie is said to have become an agnostic as a teenager and was described variously throughout her life as a rationalist, atheist, and freethinker. "Nothing in life is to be feared" she said. "It is only to be understood." | ” |
encyclopedia.com's content comes from Columbia Encyclopedia: [11].
Or this, with bibliographical references:
“ | Despite her fame as an honored scientist working for France, the public's attitude to the scandal tended towards xenophobia—she was a foreigner, from an unknown land (Poland was still referred to as a geographical area, under the Russian Tsar), an area known to have a significant Jewish population (Marie was an atheist, raised a Catholic, but that didn't seem to matter). | ” |
“ | Naturally, many scientists over the years have been atheists, including Francis Crick and James Watson, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, Linus Pauling and Steven Weinberg. | ” |
All in all, I'm even surprised it should be disputed to that level. Digwuren 19:12, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what' that's supposed to prove: I can probably find just as many web pages calling her an agnostic. And not exactly from religion-lovers, either:
“ | She abandoned her family's Roman Catholicism to become an agnostic as a teenager. | ” |
“ | Marie's father, however, had a strong streak of rationalism in him and this, combined with the death of her mother and one of her sisters from tuberculosis when Marie was only eleven, turned her into an agnostic by the time she was fifteen. | ” |
According to Freedom From Religion Foundation and British Humanist Association, She became an agnostic as a teenager. After the death of her mother and her eldest sister Zosia, she became an atheist. RS2007 12:31, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
And the only quote on the topic by Curie herself (that I know of), [12]
“ | Pierre belonged to no religion and I did not practice any. | ” |
hardly makes her sound like an unequivocal atheist.
A credible source of Curie's atheism would be either her own writings, Madame Curie: A Biography (by her daughter), or a similarly well-informed source. Until someone produces such a reference, I don't see how the Wikipedia article can claim her as more than an agnostic. Hqb 20:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Nick, if you want to say something, please go to my talk page. Please don't write anything irrelevant here. I have found two reliable source which suggest that Marie Curie was an atheist[13][14]. RS2007 12:31, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, here's a passage from the 352-page biography "Marie Curie" by Robert Reid, 1974, page 19:
“ | It was this unnecessarily drawn out event [i.e., the customarily long period of mourning following her mother's death] which caused the rationalism she had learnt from her father to conflict with the mysticism to which her mother had introduced her. Maria was unable to understand logically what it was that had so deeply touched and influenced her mother. The death, she now saw, was making her father a prematurely old man. The wasteful effects of the tragedy finally tipped the scales. Religion lost. Three or four years later she rejected it completely. Unusually at such an early age, she became what T. H. Huxley had just invented a word for: agnostic. She had taken a step which led her more easily in the direction of science. | ” |
Moreover, nowhere in the book does Reid refer to her as an atheist; in fact, on the occasion of her civil marriage to Pierre, he calls her a "lapsed Catholic".
Based on this, I'm putting back the article's assertion that she was an agnostic, until someone can find even stronger contradicting evidence. Note that many casual biographies (even from reputable sources) don't really distinguish precisely between agnosticism and atheism, so any references about her adhering to the latter need to be very specific about which term they use, not merely say "Religion: Atheist", or similar. Hqb 16:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I would guess there may be dozens of elementary and secondary schools in the world that have been named in honor of Marie Curie or Maria Skłodowska-Curie. If that is so, is there need to mention any of them in the article's "Tribute" section? Nihil novi 19:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The sentence "Eventually they studied radioactive materials, particularly pitchblende — the ore from which uranium was extracted — which had the curious property of being more radioactive than the uranium extracted from it." is repetitive. I suggest removing the inset text as the following is a superset of that information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.188.80 (talk) 23:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I am Asian but a great admirer of Dr. Curie who has inspired many women, around the world, to enter the field of science, and have the confidence to succeed in academics.
I think Dr. Curie must have been upset at the way her desire to enter a university in Poland was rejected because she was a woman, and she was Polish (by ethnicity) under the rule of Russians. She remained a proud Pole. It was lack of opportunity in her home country (sexism and foreign occupation) that forced her to leave for France to study.
The fact that she had been rejected by the French academy for funds and recognition for many years, and that support and fame only came much later (and always with some French association) does represent some narrow "nationalism" and "xenophobia" on the part of the French (both the public and the elites)in the 1800s and early 1900s. I do believe the French regretted this part of their history. But naming a bank note, a research institue and many prestigeous awards after this brilliant woman only years after her amazing breakthroughs reek of "claim to national identity and honor only after unique achievements". If Madam Curie was not as "great" as she was - would the French even consider her great- great grand children really "French"?
Think of the treatment of many third generation French Algerians even today. Many are still considered, or labeled, by the French as "Algerians" though they and their parents may have been born and raised in France all their lives.
Mother Teresa, a wonderful woman who served Indians and embraced India, is perceived by many Indians (and officially) as "an Indian of Albanian descent". And Mother Teresa did not mind being seen this way though she got her Indian citizenship very late in her life. In Albania she is seen as "an Albanian Indian" or "an Albanian who has lived most of her life in India". India embraced her with warmth, pride and gratitude even before she became world famous and won her Nobel Prize. That was not the case with Mania Sklodowska-Curie. People still associate her with her husband (Pierre Curie) mostly - lot of French still do. That is not fair to her - nor fair to women scientists around the world who want individual credit for their own achievements.
Marie (or Mania)Sklodowska lived twenty five years after her husband's untimely death. She loved him, was proud of him and devoted to him - but one cannot deny her own individual brilliance and achievements. If she were born today her husband might be known as Dr. Pierre Sklodowska. :))
Madam Curie should be remembered as Mania (or Marie) Sklodowska-Curie. Access to her biography in Wikipedia and other internet sources should be available under all her three names: Mania Sklodowska, Marie Sklodowska-Curie and Madam Curie.
France was lucky to have such a woman - and her ancestry should not be ignored or belittled. But the French are proud of her now - but France and the French Science Academy were not always nice or fair to her when was there struggling for support and acceptance. That is why she was grateful to Pierre who fought for her against rejection and prejudice (that any science community would be ashamed of today).
It is interesting how many people don't even know she is Polish. If she was a "nobody" she might have been forced to stay Polish all her life. Let us not diminish the contribution of her country, her ethnicity and her personal history. The French have the right to be proud of her and their wonderful recognition of her achievements later - but they should not dismiss the past which was not always fair or good to Dr. Sklodowska-Curie
Biographies must remain true to facts - but they must also be honest about how cultural priorities, politics, and prejudice of the past have affected people from Asia, Eastern Europe, Africa, Latin and South America in Europe.
I'd also like the information on her so-called affair with Paul ---- be deleted. It is unnecessary and reeks of sexism and juvenile fascination with boobs and sex - that seems to dominate some geeks and nerds on the internet.
Acute sexism and prejudice towards women scientists, and women intellectuals, are still apparent in many of these discussions. Is it male jealousy, fear of women's sexuality, hatred of women's sexuality or some kind of juvenile need to make women scientists into "asexual nuns" who sacrifice a great deal and live their entire lives in isolation with narrow devotion? Does it make the men feel good to have these images?
I am a woman intellectual and I have been in the academe for years. I love to dress up, drink and dance - a lot! Men have said I am sexy and when I was single I liked to bed men (mostly single like me), though many were intimidated by my intellectual and sexual passion.
This notion that all intellectuals are alike and all intellectual women are asexual, or nunnish - or should be - is absurd and unfair. Dr. Sklodowska did not sleep with her students or many men in her department - which would have been more scandalous those days. Want to know the number of male faculty (including senior ones) who sleep/date/and even marry their young female doctoral students? Why is that not news? All these are only speculations and unnecessary to her greatness.
If you ask me, I hope she did have affairs to: forget her one true love "Pierre"; to find some comfort in the demanding competative lonely world of science research; and to feel like a woman (in a world surrounded by male geeks and nerds).
Can more women write on these forums please? Thank you!
Best wishes
68.205.151.197 05:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. M. S68.205.151.197 05:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Many wrong facts being stated here. No matter the reason, Marie Curie has decided to become a French citizen, and ignoring the fact she's French in this article would be nothing else than blatant discrimination to me. Despite having also made his whole carreer in France, Frédéric Chopin decided to not naturalize, thus he should be, and actually is, remembered as Polish.
The French citizenship has never been based on blood. Historically speaking, the French citizenship has never meant anything else than being recognized as a member of the same and unique French community. One should know that France is a very diverse country, where no French ethnicity actually exists. Indeed France is made of various regions being strongly different culturally speaking to one another, and on top of that, France has known two centuries of mass immigration. And this at such a scale that nowadays, between a third and a half of the French population has foreign roots.
If French people consider Marie Curie as French, it's because she was. And there's nothing which infuriates more French people, especially me, than those who question the legitimacy of the citizenship of members of the community, no matter if they are famous scientists or industrial workers. At the opposite of what you say, she didn't become French because she was famous, she became French in the same way than hundreds of thousands of Polish migrants in France. I repeat again that no country in Europe has known immigration at the same scale and during such a long time as France did. In the 1930's, there was a larger proportion of immigrants in the French population than in the US population.
All this to say that this dispute about Marie Curie's citizenship blatantly prove a severe lack of knowledge of what means being French. It's not a matter of blood, it's not a matter of accent, it's about being part of a same community and sharing a common destiny. This of course doesn't mean that French people are all perfect and that racism doesn't exist in France, I simply explain things as they have been for centuries. Marie Curie is as French as were Léon Gambetta, Joséphine Baker, Edith Piaf, Charles Aznavour, Zinedine Zidane, Michel Platini, Nicolas Sarkozy, Jean-Jacques Rousseau or La Fayette, which means she was 100% French. And this no matter how strong her Polish bonds ; no one has the right to steal her from her French citizenship. Metropolitan 18:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC).
Why is there so little discussion of Marie Curie's actual science on this page? Compare with Pierre Curie's. Compare with ANY Nobel prize winner's. Though probably unintentional, this looks to me like typical scientific chauvinism. Come on, let's aim higher than a People magazine style biography.
Before you launch personal attacks, this is coming from a man, by the way.
71.240.88.128 09:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
There seems to be a shortcut error referring to the element "curium". It has to be Cm, not Ci!
Quotation from the main article: The curie (symbol Ci), a unit of radioactivity, is named in their honour, as is the element with atomic number 96 - curium.
Ci is the unit of radioactivity. Cm is the element. In the quote it is the unit of radioactivity. --Anon126 00:12, 23 December 2007 (UTC)