References[edit]

Getting ready[edit]

I suggest a taskforce is made for getting this page ready for July 5th. Starmer is topped to be the next Bitish PM, if the polls are correct. 2A0A:EF40:E81:7701:C9E4:23A8:8929:A3F7 (talk) 18:46, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fully agree. If polls are correct, I suggest the article "Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer" be renamed to "Keir Starmer's tenure as Leader of the Opposition". --150.143.27.147 (talk) 10:57, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that there should be two separate articles for his time in opposition and a 'Premiership of Keir Starmer' article if Labour do win next month. Michaeldble (talk) 11:29, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sub-article for legal career?[edit]

Any chances of there being a sub-article for his legal career? His political career has a sub-article (Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer) so think a lot of the legal career section could be better served in a sub-article. Something along the lines of "Legal career of Keir Starmer". 150.143.27.147 (talk) 21:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've created a draft here: Draft:Legal career of Keir Starmer. --ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter (talk) 21:20, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see it's been done elsewhere for politicians: Legal career of Hillary Clinton and Legal career of Mary Robinson. If there is enough coverage in reliable sources then I have no issue Michaeldble (talk) 11:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. There already looks to be enough coverage of Starmer's legal career in reliable sources as shown in this article, and there is further information about it not featured here that could be featured in a sub-article (such as Boris Johnson bringing up Starmer's time as Director of Public Prosecutions back in 2022). Whilst now predominantly best known as a politician, his legal career is still notable enough for a sub-article, especially as now he looks set to become the next PM as indicated by several opinion polls. Like Hillary Clinton, I think having a sub-article for Starmer's legal career would be for the best. --150.143.27.147 (talk) 12:53, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keir Starmer: The Biography[edit]

A book was written by Tom Baldwin about Starmer earlier this year called Keir Starmer: The Biography. Worth a mention here at all? 150.143.27.147 (talk) 13:46, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's included here in the 'further reading' part. What would you suggest mentioning on this page? It might merit its own article as it did have quite a lot of coverage at the time Michaeldble (talk) 13:57, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, in that case I'd would recommend the book having its own article as per the coverage, and also as The Starmer Project has its own article. --150.143.27.147 (talk) 14:47, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trimming the legal career section[edit]

There is a draft article about the Legal career of Keir Starmer. As such, the information about his law career here should be significantly trimmed down. As per Hillary Clinton's article not going too in depth about her law career as a sub-article for it exists. 150.143.27.147 (talk) 14:51, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As soon as the draft is accepted, it can be trimmed down to be a summary of his legal career. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Length of Labour leadership section constantly being trimmed, when Jeremy Corbyn's article has tons of info about his leadership[edit]

Where's the consistency? Go to Jeremy Corbyn's article and you'll find chockablock information about his tenure as Labour leader. Why is the same not true of this page, and whenever I've tried to expand information on his leadership, it's been reverted? Corbyn also has a Labour leadership stub-article but that doesn't stop his main page having a lot more information about his leadership than Starmer's article.

And what's the point of having a foreign affairs section if his views on the middle east conflict aren't included in it? Either include the middle east stuff here, or don't include it at all. ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter (talk) 22:08, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We shouldn't be including chockablock information about anyone: WP:SS. If Corbyn's page has it then it's wrong; just because one page is badly done doesn't mean another has to be. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I meant to say chockablock information, whoops. But you still get the idea. That being said I see your point as well as the other editor who's raised this with me. I agree to keeping things the way they are if that is preferable. This being the case, can we start trimming the length of Corbyn's page to match Starmer's? One of my points does still stand though, his views on the middle east conflict are a political position and so should be included in that section. --ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter (talk) 22:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Look, I get it, but all the polls are pointing to him getting a "new job" soon (whether he gets it by 150 or 350 doesn't matter—even Tory ministers are resigned to it). Soon his Labour/Opposition leadership will no longer be his primary notability. Whatever happens in the election, whether he loses it, Parliament is hung or he gets a "stonking" majority there will be new things to say. I'd save on this until 5 July when we can gauge his place in history a bit more accurately rather than just parroting the news churn. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I agree, I've watched this election quite closely and all the polls are indeed pointing to him getting a "new job" soon. Brilliantly put. As a compromise, I've heavily reduced the length of this article whilst still keeping some important things in there, like shadow cabinet appointments (per David Cameron). And I've added the response to the middle east conflict back to where it works best - in the political positions section. --ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter (talk) 22:29, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with @Tim O'Doherty's comments. Personally, I think less is more when it comes to these types of articles - you don't want to overwhelm readers. I'm not sure the Corbyn article is a great blueprint, I think it's better to only summarise the most important parts on here and go into more detail on the separate articles such as the leadership election, shadow cabinet etc. For example, I don't understand why you've copied and pasted his election results (by-elections, local elections) from the Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer page - that article is redundant if both articles contain identical levels of detail and content.
Regarding the Middle East points, I don't think his comments on LBC and aftermath should be in the political positions section. The most important part of this story is the backlash (resignations etc) which is more relevant to his leadership. His views on Palestine should remain in the political positions section obviously. Michaeldble (talk) 22:30, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your reply, I also agree with his comments, and yours. This is why I've done a compromise edit; I've heavily reduced the length of this article whilst still keeping some important things in there, like shadow cabinet appointments (per David Cameron). But you can put the comments on LBC and aftermath back in the leadership section if you think it would fit best there. --ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter (talk) 22:33, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you are going around pages mass removing cited content. Please, please stop. You've been asked multiple times to stop and have yourself agreed. There is no requirement to have pages a certain length. Wiping out cited information benefits no one. Helper201 (talk) 22:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has already been resolved as I've done a compromise edit that has heavily reduced the length of this article whilst still keeping some important things in there, like shadow cabinet appointments. As for the legal career section, I reduced that as his legal career now has a sub-article (Legal career of Keir Starmer) so no point duplicating the same info here. --ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter (talk) 22:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tenure as LOTO[edit]

Starmer "served as Leader of the Opposition from 2020 to 2024" No, Starmer is still Leader of the Opposition. This position maintains until he resigns as leader of the Labour Party, as per precedent if you look through previous Labour/Conservative Leader pages. Don’t confuse dissolution dates (sitting as an MP) with the Party leadership dates e.g. Alec Douglas-Home became Leader of the Conservative Party in October 1963 whilst not an MP, he continued as such until becoming an MP in a by election held a few weeks later. Starmer can be reasonably expected to be Leader of the Opposition until at least 5 July 2024, and is still Leader of the Opposition now. 92.40.200.240 (talk) 09:19, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox placement of "Sir"[edit]

There are lately two differing conventions on where to place the pre-nominal "Sir" in biographical infoboxes. The first convention (which used to be more prevalent) is to put it in |honorific_prefix=, but a second convention (which has been become more widely used) is to put it immediately before the person's name in |name=. Given that Starmer is probably the most well-known/consequential politician with a knighthood at the moment, this is probably a good time to discuss this in relation to this article's infobox. Personally, I reckon that we should put it in |name=, since I think it looks slightly jarring to have "The Right Honourable" linked but "Sir" unlinked, and it matches the practice of bolding "Sir" in the lead. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 15:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead in the polls[edit]

I have fixed a few problems with the bit dealing with the lead in the polls.[1] I think the problems were the result of people editing the text without worrying about which citation was for which statement. I propose to remove the following unsupported commentary on the poll lead: often by very wide margins, as the governments under prime ministers Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, and Rishi Sunak were affected by high-profile scandals and issues such as Partygate, the cost of living crisis, the July 2022 government crisis, the September 2022 mini-budget, the October 2022 government crisis, the industrial disputes including National Health Service strikes, railway strikes and postal workers strikes, and a number of scandals involving Conservative MPs. The commentary is a list of things that happened during the period of the poll lead. I think it would be better removed, so that the section concentrates on the topic - the poll lead.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And there was a typo in my edit summary - it should have read: "moved citation about 2023 elections to the sentence about that topic and removed 2022 citations that "supported" a statement about the 2023 elections", not "2022 elections".-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:24, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Political identification[edit]

I think it would be worth pointing out on front page that he still considers himself a socialist. In a recent interview with BBC he said: "I would describe myself as a socialist. I describe myself as a progressive" instead of just saying he's a centrist.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/27/starmer-im-a-socialist-and-progressive-who-will-always-put-country-first

Napolen4 (talk) 01:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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