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I thought I understood the whole "move page" thing, but why can't I move this to The Grateful Dead? Tokerboy 18:28 Nov 11, 2002 (UTC)
A redirect is in the way. You have to cut and paste it over there. Lir 18:29 Nov 11, 2002 (UTC)
Question: any reference on the group's name referring to the Egiyptian Book of the Dead? I always understood it to relate to English Balladry. --Jmabel 22:39, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)
According to Dennis McNally (aka Scrib, the band's publicist), Jerry Garcia, Phil Lesh, Bob Weir & Bill Kreutzman were at Lesh's house on High Street on November 12, leafing through Bartlett's Familiar Quotations without any inspiration, when Garcia opened Phil's girlfriend Ruth's Funk and Wagnall's New Practical Standard Dictionary (1956) and stabbed his finger at a random page on the entry: Grateful Dead. McNally, Dennis - A Long Strange Trip p. 100 (2002).
Quote, regarding changing the name from the Warlocks: "(probably not the New York Band Velvet Underground, but instead a band whose guitarist would eventually form ZZ Top)." This bit is wrong for three reasons. First, the Grateful Dead became the Grateful Dead in 1965. The band members of ZZ Top were born in 1949, and none of them had released an album by the time they were sixteen. Second, Dusty Hill (ZZ Top's bass player) was in the Warlocks, not Billy Gibbons. Third, Phil Lesh mentions in the book "Playing in the Band," by David Gans and Peter Simon, that the record he came across by a band called the Warlocks featured a band from "back East." Although Texas (where the members of ZZ Top are from) may be east of California, NOBODY refers to Texas as "back East." I am removing this quote for these reasons.JSC ltd 16:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
(not sure what was here - vandalism deleted) Dave C. 05:27, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Interestingly enough, the Unix fortune cookie program has this line in it's database:
"In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead." -Egyptian Book of the Dead
Was it ever documented that any of the band members had read or were familiar with the Egyptian Book of the Dead?
ChardingLLNL 15:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
A list of all musicians who were in the band at the bottom of the page would be nice. heidimo 15:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Somebody's got to have a great onstage pic they can donate :) Kwertii 02:23, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I changed the thing about the origin of the name being the book of the dead. I find no support for this and several creditable references to the name coming from the old folk tale...including references on www.dead.net. Hope don't offend anyone, but this seems like a rather important point that is in error...as the folk tale is quite important to understanding the band "The Grateful Dead" (IMHO) Maybe I, or someone, should write a section on this.
The (Egyptian) book of the dead origin for the group's name came from an interview given by Phil Lesh in the late 60's. Until the Egyptian Book of the Dead experience (supporting the folklore reference), the band was uncertain whether yet another name change might be appropriate. It appears that the band subsequently viewed that as being of secondary importance. unkamunka. 19:30, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
3 shows were cancelled between Brent's death and Vince's first gig. See contemporary press cuttings at http://www.kazart.com/bus_stop/scrapbk1.htm. Thus, "Without missing a show..." has been changed to "Almost immediately...." unkamunka. 14:25, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
_________
Garcia remarked, "We discovered there was a band back East recording under that name [the Warlocks]. We decided, 'Oh, no, we can't have that, we can't be confused with somebody else.' So we were trying to think up names, and for about two or three weeks we went on the usual thing of coming up with thousands and thousands of very funny names, none of which we could use."
They used the name Emergency Crew when they cut a demo on November 3, 1965, in San Francisco for Tom Donahue's label, Autumn Records. Later that month the band was sitting around on High Street in Palo Alto trying to come up with a suitable name when Garcia happened upon a phrase that stuck. He explained how they finally found their name: "One day we were all over at Phil's house smoking DMT. He had a big Oxford dictionary, I opened it, and there was grateful dead, those words juxtaposed. It was one of those moments, y'know, like everything else on the page went blank, diffuse, just sorta oozed away, and there was GRATEFUL DEAD, big black letters edged all in gold, man, blasting out at me, such a stunning combination. So I said 'How 'bout Grateful Dead?' and that was it." garcia added, "It was funny because we didn't really like it at first and it kind of made us shudder. We were worried that nobody was going to go for it -- it's too weird."
--- from Captain Trips by Sandy Troy pp 73-74
How come The Beatles article title includes the word THE, but the Grateful Dead article title does not? Kingturtle 00:51, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Am I missing it somewhere? Any reason for this? -- Dave C. 05:17, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It's too long --User:Zaorish. It's on a separate page.
What about Timothy Leary?
And Owsley???
How about instead of complaining about what sections are missing, you write the section yourself. I did, I wrote the original draft of the "wall of sound" section. And if you don't know enough about the topic to write a full section yourself, then research. —preceding unsigned comment by 66.212.196.150 (talk • contribs) 14:24, May 4, 2005
People may be interested in looking at the article 1980s One-hit wonders in the United States where there is an edit war (which I am involved in) over whether Grateful Dead is a one-hit wonder. Samboy 19:49, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The Dick's Picks series represents a huge and unique component of the band's recordings. Was it intentionally omitted from the discography? It would be easy to add, as the data is readily available. —preceding unsigned comment by Juanpoe (talk • contribs) 14:56, July 21, 2005
Bruce's performances with The Grateful Dead are captured on: "Dick's Picks 9 - Madison Square Garden - 16 Sept 90", "Dick's Picks 17 - Boston Garden - 25 Sept 91", Infrared Roses (Hornsby is given credit as co-composer of "Silver Apples of the Moon"), "A View from the Vault II", and "So Many Roads". For a non-member his contribution to "The Dead's" body of work is notable.
"I have to disagree, Bruce toured with the Dead long enough after Brent's death, and that although he never recorded with them he is in the minds of a lot of people, still a full member of the band's past."
The 'mind's of a lot of people' do not determine Grateful Dead membership. Bill Bruford toured with Genesis for years, but he was never a MEMBER. He helped out on tours. Big difference.
Bruce Hornsby was NEVER a member of the Grateful Dead...he was a sideman that helped the band out for a year and a half. He had NO SAY in the songwriting or decision-making of the band. He would be the first person to tell you that he was never a member. That's like including the sax player for Pink Floyd tours as a band member.
>>> Actually, Bruce does say that he "became a part-time member of the Grateful Dead and, from September 1990 to March 1992, performed with the group on more than 100 concerts in America and Europe." See, his website at http://www.brucehornsby.com/bio.php <<< SteveHopson
But by this reasoning, was Donna a MEMBER of the band? Did she have a say in the songwriting or decision-making of the band? Was T.C. a MEMBER by that reasoning? What is the point of aruging about whether we put the label "MEMBER" on someone? Did Bruce Hornsby bring anything valuable to the table with respect to the Dead is the question to consider.
The Dead did consider Hornsby in the process that resulted in hiring Brent.
My two cents:
One reasonable way to gauge whether someone is a member might be: During the individual's tenure, did he or she participate in nearly every performance of the band (i.e., except for illness, pregnancy, death in the family, etc.)? By this standard Bruce was not a member and Donna was. FWIW, I usually liked Bruce's contributions, but I never considered him a member, since his participation was not full-time.
--Steve M (a different steve than above)
I am in no way an expert, most of my knowledge comes from McNally's book "A Long Strange Trip". To claim that Donna was a member and Bruce was not is IMHO a complete misunderstanding. By following Steve M's logic, the only true "members" then are Phil and Bob ( :/ [post-2005]). In fact, in the early years (pre-74) the crew was considered to be as much a part of the decision making as the band. Maybe even more so... Point being, with the Dead, definitions such as "membership" are not easily and/or typically defined. Questions of "membership", based on singing/songwriting decisions, are completely lost on those claiming to be fans. --bean
If there was ever any question about this, I think you go straight to the front of Phil Lesh's recent book -- where he includes Bruce as one of the 12 members of the band. If Phil includes him on the list, that's good enough for me! It makes no sense for folks to say TC and Donna were band members while saying Bruce was not. The guy toured with them for a year and a half (not to mention numerous other guest appearances before and after the 1990-92 stint with the band) -Sam
Actually, that list in Lesh's book is of "his brothers in music," not specifically of Dead members per se, even if we read it as such. Another guide might be the inductee list for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Under those inducted as members of the Grateful Dead, there is Tom Constanten. There is Donna Jean Godchaux. There is Vince Welnick. There is NOT Bruce Hornsby. I am most assuredly high on Hornsby, but he was, at best and by his own definition, a part-time member (however much he deserved full status - perhaps Bruce was trying to distance himself from the curse?). - Natalie Davis (RIP Vince! http://gratefuldread.net/archives/cat/001544.html )
The section on the page is LINEUPS, and, since Bruce WAS a regular, uninterrupted (with zero or very very few exceptions I can find) member of the LINEUP from September 1990 through March 24, 1992, he ought to be included in a separate subsection 1990-1992. Having only one section, 1990-1995 is really misguided. Bruce, whether his playing falls within one's personal taste or not, did make significant contributions to the band's style of improvisational performance in the wake of Mydland and pre-Welnick...thankfully, as per the band taping policy, we have ample evidence to support those contributions. Many feel that Bruce's solos and call-and-responses with Jerry actually kicked Jerry into another gear on his own playing (one need only check out the JGB Richmond, VA '91 performance, currently available in part on YouTube, to understand these views). Jerry's playing pre-Bruce and post-Bruce was influenced and changed, so much so that Jerry went on to collaborate on several Bruce solo albums, and, in fact, one of Jerry's final studio sessions was with Bruce in Williamsburg. He did impact the sound and style of the band's core improvisitory member. That said, I'd be happy to boot him for his accordion playing (which was often off-the-mark and/or way to high in the soundboard mix), but the fact is the guy was a contributing part of the lineup...to omit him is to suggest that the Dead of 1990-1992 sound the same as the Dead of 1992-1995...that's simply not true. (In fact, there were many moments during 1990-1992 when I hoped Vince would get the boot...he was experimenting with really cheesy synth sounds, especially when he was high in the mix he really ruined lots of softer, soulful lyrics in Set I's...he had this ridiculous Super Mario Brothers soundtrack sound for quite some time. It was great to see him come into his own, though...)
I feel Bruce was a Temporary member of the Grateful Dead. They(GD and BH) played more hours of music together than most band 'members' do in their whole careers. I belive Bruce presented the Grateful Dead with the honor when they were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
It is fact that Bruce pulled the band together after Brent's death. Bruce was a very strong performer, practically leading the band a lot of those silky silky crazy crazy nights. I wouldn't list him in the 'official' credits - but definately on top of the list of artists that performed with the Grateful Dead longer than a single tour. The whole Grateful Dead experience was about being there. Being part of it. And Bruce was there. Was he a permanent member listed on studio album credits over multiple decades? Nay. A good friend who became a temporary member that stepped in to help out after a great tragedy? Yes. -August West —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.98.185 (talk) 23:31, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
This leaves off at 1970. What about post 1970?
Garica or the whole band was busted for pot in New Orleans either in the late 60's or 70-71. Garica/The Band may have vowed to never return there (see bottom of [[1]]); the line from Truckin ("busted down on Bourbon Street") is a reference to it (as are the lines immediately before it, "Got a tip they're gonna kick the door in again," etc.).
Anyone have the dish on this bust? When did it occur? Pot and/or other drugs? What became of the case? I haven't seen much info on it; its just a known fact they were busted in New Orleans and it is mentioned in Truckin.Friendlyliz 18:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
The bust is mentioned on the official documentary "Anthem to Beauty", at some point. Also that represenatives for Warner Bros. bribed the police.
The PHISH page is so incredbily imformative that it almost makes me upset that the Dead page is as weak as it is.
Check out what those fans did with the Phish page (with detailed links and all) and we might be able to make this Dead page creative instead of full of boring facts. I never "got" Phish but their entry sure made me want to explore their music
I agree that this article is generally not particularly well written -- there's a lot of redundancy and repetition, sometimes even of the same vague phrases and references. (E.g., "Deadheads" and their "dedication" are mentioned more than once in broad terms, as is the assertion that Garcia was the "de facto" leader but did not welcome that role.)
I entirely agree about the current sitution of the Dead. I Saw them live at their live show on 8/19/04 in Atlata. (My first show) I do hope that the "core four" snd others put on a show again, but I doubt it.
Grateful Dead has been evaluated according to the Featured Music Project criteria, most recently affirmed as of this revision. The article's most important issues are listed below. Since this evaluation, the article may have been improved.
The following areas need work to meet the criteria: Lead - Comprehensiveness - Pictures - Audio - References |
This section needs serious help, IMHO. Also, can we tune down the whole grilled cheese sandwich thing? Veggie buritos were WAY more prevalent. Also, needs much more about tie-dye, hair, communal living, micro buses, ect. I 'll start.....Tom 23:39, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Can we source this?? It seems that in the movie This is spinal Tap, the drummers deaths parodied the deaths of DRUMMERS from OTHER bands, ie The Who, Led Zepplin, ect and wasn't in regards to the Dead's keyboardist deaths...please correct me or lose this line. Thanks!Tom 15:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
-I've thought about another dead reference in the movie when I first saw it which is when they flashed back to their days as the flower people. I thought this might be a possible allusion to the dead's history of constantly changing the sound of thier music. Any other thoughts on that or other possible dead references in the movie? (68.48.191.17 17:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC))
Well, uh, you could make the point that everyone who played keyboards on a released album (Pig, Keith, Brent, Jer) all met an early demise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.241.76 (talk) 01:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
"The Grateful Dead’s early music (in the mid 1960s) was part of the process of establishing what "psychedelic music" was"
I'd quibble with this statement. Recordings that circulate of early shows - and there are a good many of them - indicate that up until late 1967 the group was playing more or less post British Invasion R&B. The first LP bears this out - the only psychedelic thing about it is the cover. The Grateful Dead's psychedelic phase really only kicks in early in 1968, just before and during the tour of the north-west. Ironically, it was at this time that many other musicians were trying to distance themselves from the phenomenon. BTLizard 09:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
-I would say that the dead were a jam band in the mid 60s, but didn't really play "psychedelic" music until they released of anthem of the sun, which was designed specifically to mimic a psychedelic trip. Though I would argue that the band itself could be considered culturally "psychedelic" ever since they did the acid tests. (68.48.191.17 17:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC))
I guess its time to revist this. Since I see another wheel war developing here. Should we do a vote?? I hate them, but at least everybody can way in. How would that work? --Tom 16:16, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Bruce H was an "offical" member of the Dead and should be listed as such in this article:
No support? I posted this above, then saw that this is a new thread...sorry:
The section on the page is LINEUPS, and, since Bruce WAS a regular, uninterrupted (with zero or very very few exceptions I can find) member of the LINEUP from September 1990 through March 24, 1992, he ought to be included in a separate subsection 1990-1992. Having only one section, 1990-1995 is really misguided. Bruce, whether his playing falls within one's personal taste or not, did make significant contributions to the band's style of improvisational performance in the wake of Mydland and pre-Welnick...thankfully, as per the band taping policy, we have ample evidence to support those contributions. Many feel that Bruce's solos and call-and-responses with Jerry actually kicked Jerry into another gear on his own playing (one need only check out the JGB Richmond, VA '91 performance, currently available in part on YouTube, to understand these views). Jerry's playing pre-Bruce and post-Bruce was influenced and changed, so much so that Jerry went on to collaborate on several Bruce solo albums, and, in fact, one of Jerry's final studio sessions was with Bruce in Williamsburg. He did impact the sound and style of the band's core improvisitory member. That said, I'd be happy to boot him for his accordion playing (which was often off-the-mark and/or way to high in the soundboard mix), but the fact is the guy was a contributing part of the lineup...to omit him is to suggest that the Dead of 1990-1992 sound the same as the Dead of 1992-1995...that's simply not true. (In fact, there were many moments during 1990-1992 when I hoped Vince would get the boot...he was experimenting with really cheesy synth sounds, especially when he was high in the mix he really ruined lots of softer, soulful lyrics in Set I's...he had this ridiculous Super Mario Brothers soundtrack sound for quite some time. It was great to see him come into his own, though...)
Not to include Bruce in the lineup is crazy, he was a member for 18 months and is on 4 GD albums, Satelite member, Sit-in player, a stone is a stone, he was a big part of 1990-1995 in GD history, even after the band with The Other One's etc... probably more impactful than Vince (imho). To not include him in the lineup for 1990-1995 is insane.Testerer 08:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
"The section on the page is LINEUPS, and, since Bruce WAS a regular, uninterrupted (with zero or very very few exceptions I can find) member of the LINEUP from September 1990 through March 24, 1992"
Exactly. So long as this is a LINEUP timeline it should reflect the lineup, not to include bruce at all from 1990-1995 is clearly misleading. You need to prove that he wasn't part of the 1990-1995 Lineup in order to toss him from the LINEUP. Testerer 08:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
FWIW- in Oliver Trager's "American Book of The Dead, The Definitive Grateful Dead Encyclopedia" it says. "Hornsby joined the band for an eighteen-month stretch beginning in September 1990". It doesn't matter, this timeline is Lineups anyway. Testerer 08:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't feel that strongly about this at all. I don't know of any website or book that says Bruce Hornsby was not a part of the Lineup. I'll agree with Dead.net and others who make a distinction with words, but mere words alone cannot define who got up and jammed with the boys night after night for a year and a half. There are books that say he was a member, say he "joined the band", there are websites who say he was a satelite member, regular sit-in, etc... I'll debate that with ya anytime, but I see this timeline as a Lineup timeline, I think it should be broken down by tour frankly, but I don't have the time to do that, it certainly would more accurately represent history no? I guess I'm just saying that if you have a GD Lineup from 1990-1995, you gotta include Bruce. If you have an issue with that then I pose a question to ya. Was Donna a member of the band, well of course she was right? Was she a member every year? The answer probably has something to do with why wiser people before us chose the word Lineup for this section, and I think Bruce fit's in during this time period. Testerer 09:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
The Lineups section of the page should, in part, reflect what someone listening to a show from that timespan should expect to hear. To include someone like Branford in the lineup section would obviously be a bit extreme (Branford guested on a few occasions), but to remove Hornsby from the lineup section is pretty stupid...anyone listening to shows from the Hornsby dates (1990-1992) knows that he was there...what are you suggesting, that we attribute all of that piano playing to Vince (HA! Hornsby always played circles around Vince!). Regardless, he was there. Whether he belongs in the "member" section is disputable, whether he was a regular member of the lineup from 1990 to 1992 is not disputable at all...it is a fact that he was a member of the lineup.
I agree that Bruce Hornsby should be listed in the lineups, since he played in almost every show for a year and a half, and I agree that occasional guests such as Branford Marsalis should not be listed. But, as stated in the article, after March 24, 1992, Bruce went back to being an occasional guest. By that line of reasoning, Bruce should be listed for 1990 - 1992, not 1990 - 1995. So, I've changed the lineups table, splitting the last row into two rows -- 1990 - 1992, with Bruce included, and 1992 - 1995, without Bruce. I can see that this issue has been the subject of some debate here, but I decided to go ahead and make this change since it more accurately reflects who was playing and when. "P.S." I feel that the current arrangement of listing Bruce Hornsby in the lineup table but not including him in the infobox as a band member is the best approach. -- Mudwater 03:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Mudwater: Thanks for finding the Sept 15th date. I'm the one who added Sept 1990 to March 24, 1992...but I couldn't ever find the exact date in Sept. Also, when I made that edit (months and months ago) I also ALREADY made the split that you describe in the lineups section (1990-1992 and 1992-1995, not 1990-1995)...it is really irritating (to say the least) that the lineups section keeps switching back. There must be a solid block of anti-Hornsby fascist editors ("we can rewrite history just by deleting what we don't like"). I'm the one that made the comment above as well...Hornsby needs to be in the lineups section because his additions to the band are obvious in the live recordings...the music is completely different in texture and sound with him than without him (which some like more than others, and some probably don't like at all)...but the fact is that he was there and Wikipedia should aim to record that fact (whether everyone likes his contributions to the band or not is an opinion).
Regarding the section "Dissolution and Continuation of the band": While Warren Haynes has played/toured with the surviving members of the dead, it was Jimmy Herring who played lead guitar on the tour when the band started calling themselves "The Dead" instead of "The Other Ones" (and other variations). I removed Haynes name and replaced it with Herrings.
I've re-added Jimmy's name to the article along with Warren's. Here's a link that proves that Jimmy was a member. http://www.korg.com/sbytes/article.asp?ArtistID=165
Both Robert Hunter and John Perry Barlow have always been considered de facto band members. When artist Stanley Mouse was creating the portraits of each band member to be used on the album "Workingman's Dead", he painted a portrait of Hunter, too. It was removed from the layout at the last minute for reasons no one has told me about.
Would anyone have any objections to me adding the two lyricists to the list of band members?
--Jfulbright 18:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I have added Hunter with lyricist after his name, even though I think it looks a bit odd to have "lyricist" after his name and nothing after any other. Hunter should be listed as he was considered a member and was inducted into the Hall of Fame with the rest of the group Barlow was not. Drumzandspace2000 (talk) 06:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Like the term hacker, rap has taken on new meaning since the 60's. Pigpen's little dialogues with the audience were considered rapping then. Pop on "Ladies and Gentlemen..." and queue up Lovelight about 9 minutes in. However I've come to realise that wasn't so much an influence as a technique so I won't revert the edit. I wonder what ever became of Chris and Marsha. Remember "tell her Pigpen said it was OK".--J Clear 12:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I noticed someone had started "The Dead (band)" article but there is already a section with much of the same information within the Grateful Dead article. I think the two should merge on this page to consolidate the information seeing as The Dead is "risen" from the Grateful Dead as it were. ju66l3r 06:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I really think the article about The Dead should remain separate from this one. The Grateful Dead and The Dead are two different things. Obviously they're closely related. The Dead includes -- or included, since it's unknown whether they'll play together again -- most of the former members of the Grateful Dead, and plays a lot of the same songs. In many ways The Dead is continuing the legacy of the Grateful Dead, and that's great. But, it's not the Grateful Dead, and never can be. The members of The Dead recognize this, and that's why they don't call themselves the Grateful Dead. I also really think that The Dead should continue to have its own article. It's definitely a notable band, and there's quite a lot that could be said about it. Its article is only one of many that are related to the Grateful Dead.
No one's said anything else about the possible merge since it was suggested more than four months ago. So, I'm being bold and removing the merge suggestion from the two articles. -- Mudwater 18:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Kula Shaker's first album K has a track paying homage to the Greatful Dead entitled "Grateful when your dead/Jerry was there". I dont know how best to incorporate this into the article, or if to incorporate it at all. I'll let someone who knows the band better than I to make the decision. Robinoke 14:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I've created a proposal for categorizing "taper-friendly bands", aka "bands that allow taping" within Wikipedia, and I wanted to invite people interested in this article to offer comments and feedback, since the Dead are one of the most prominent bands in the category. The proposal is at User:Xtifr/BTAT, and I'd be very interested to hear what people have to say about my suggestions. Let me know whatcha think. Thanks, Xtifr 11:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Note: This article has a small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and subject content. Currently it would not pass criteria 2b.
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 02:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
After reviewing the article in accordance to the Good Article Criteria, I unfortunately have to delist the article from the GA listing due to concerns listed below. I encourage the article's editors to work on the improving the article and addressing the concerns below. I also encourage the editors to considering resubmitting for GA status once these concerns have been addressed.
1. It is well written. - Needs Improvement
2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. - Needs Improvement
3. It is broad in its coverage. - Needs Improvement
4. It follows the neutral point of view policy - Weak Pass
5. It is stable - Pass
6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. - Needs Improvement
Again, I encourage the improvement and resubmitting for GA consideration. This article has a lot of positive merit and I want to thank the article's editors for getting it up to this point. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Agne 23:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
See the section Wall of Sound - what is PA wtf? Do not use well known abbreviations in articles. Blowup 11:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I struggle to imagine what the picture labeled Gdead2.jpg has to do with this article or for that matter the Culture of San Francisco, California article. Maajid 12:49, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm suprised that there is no mention of the sellouts of the Wachovia Spectrum in Philadelphia. They sold out the entire arena 50-some times. TheOneCalledA1 20:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
In the info box at the beginning of the article, I've added Jerry Garcia Band as an associated act. However, at this time there is no article for Jerry Garcia Band, which redirects to Jerry Garcia. In my opinion, such an article would be a welcome addition to Wikipedia, so, if anyone's looking for a good topic for a new Grateful Dead related article, you know what to do. -- Mudwater 00:57, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I've taken my own advice and created the Jerry Garcia Band article. -- Mudwater 01:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I just removed the Gentiles section from the article as it appeared as original research. --Tom 13:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
A message to the editor who wrote the deleted "gentiles" section: I happen to not be a big fan of Broadway show tunes. I can see why some people like them a lot, but to me they seem corny and old fashioned. I also don't care for the taste of tomatoes. Although they're very popular, I find them to be too sour. Like you and your friends' views about the Grateful Dead and other jam bands, those are perfectly legitimate things to think and to talk about. But, those opinions wouldn't necessarily add value to encyclopedia articles on those subjects. Yes, a lot of people don't like the Dead's music, or certain aspects of the Dead's music. That's fine, and I respect your opinion. A lot of people don't like any genre of music you can think of. That goes without saying. I just don't think it's helpful to point it out in an encyclopedia article. I would encourage you to contribute to Wikipedia by adding verifiable factual information to articles about subjects that interest you. I would also encourage you to create and use an account, it's really easy and your privacy is well protected -- see Wikipedia:Why create an account?. -- Mudwater 19:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I changed the line "In 1971, the band purchased their first solid sound system from Alembic Inc Studios" to read "solid-state sound system," as it is supposed to be, judging by the stated year and incoherence of the original sentence. As I don't know how, would someone be so kind as to link that to the article on solid-state electronics?
I reverted the Hornsby stuff. The first cite says he was a "temporary" member?? The other cits are garbage. I am not impressed with the quanity of cites rather there quality. Does "temporary" member qualify as "member" of the band?? Thanks! --Tom 14:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone has put Laurence Shurtliff up for AFD due to lack of references, I know he is covered well in many Grateful Dead related books, perhaps someone who has those books can provide references and speak up at the AFD Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Laurence_Shurtliff. Russeasby 22:47, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
More about the music? This needs more written about the music, the albums, the songwriting style and craft. It covers upto to 1970 but they carried for 25 years after that! A talk through of their albums and musical changes would be ideal. A little less said about Garcia and his personal and more on the music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.55.96 (talk) 08:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I came to find out the history behind the Dancing Bears and the "Steal/Steel Your Face" icons and was let down.Bodhi.peace 18:31, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
OK I think they're to many genres on the page I think we sould narrow it down to just a few. Thanks. Audiofile65 23:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)Audiofile65
It's been more than a month and there seems to be a consensus, so I've changed the genre in the infobox to just "Rock". — Mudwater 18:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
The more general, the better, in my view. A lot of music really defies categorization, and that's particularly true for the Grateful Dead. They played psychedelic rock and folk rock, you say? Quite true. But they also played country rock, blues rock, jazz rock, and straight ahead rock and roll, along with a few gospel songs for good measure. And don't forget the popular "jam band music", which is also true. For subgenres, there's really no good place to draw the line, hence the discussion points made above in this section. In my view this would apply to many other rock groups as well, but the Dead are the paradigm example, since they drew their music from so many different genres. It's rock music, and the other points should be discussed in the article itself. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Anything beyond "rock" seems somewhat arbitrary to me. I think most people would agree that Anthem of the Sun is psychedelic rock, and American Beauty is folk rock. But what about a recording of a Dead concert from their last 20 years of touring? That seems to be neither, or maybe both with a whole bunch of other stuff mixed in. Also, I don't see a big benefit in this. People who want it explained further should read the article, or better yet, listen to the music.
Also, Template:Infobox Musical artist#Genre says, "The genre or genres of music performed by the act. Aim for generality (e.g. [[Hip hop music|Hip hop]] rather than [[East Coast hip hop]])."
In the discussion about this earlier this year, higher in this section of the Talk page, we seemed to have established a consensus that listing only "Rock" was the best approach. If you feel strongly about having more genres, maybe we should continue the discussion here for a while. By "we", I mean any editors.
Does anyone else have an opinion on this? What should the genre or genres be, and why? — Mudwater (Talk) 13:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
...considered to be a masterpiece
Considered by who? You and two of your friends? Band members? A middle school girl who you met on the street? Your little brother?
All of the above! El_C 21:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed some unsourced material. TIA --Tom 14:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Deadheads for Obama should probably be merged into this; it's not notable enough by itself. I've tagged it appropriately. Adam McMaster (talk) 17:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I think you are probably right. Addionne (talk) 16:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't think Jerry would approve. Strike it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.165.253 (talk) 05:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
If anything, file it under separate article on Deadheads as subsection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TkerTimeSeeker (talk • contribs) 17:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Personal opinion: Current politics should be kept out of music history. The band members' political leanings would be relevant to this article, but current events aren't particularly meaningful in an article discussing people or music from a factual, historical perspective. It would be similar to adding a section entitled "Democrats' love of "The Marriage of Figaro" to the biograpghy of Mozart. Strike it. Bruno (talk) 23:24, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah I tend to Disagree as well. Politics should be kept completely out of a band informational history. Deadheads for Obama would belong more under a Barak Obama article with a link to this page. Deadheads is more about who is supporting Obama than about the band.contribs) 17:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes the seperation of church and state and all that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.221.1.80 (talk) 22:43, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
>> Please do not include Deadheads for Obama in this article. It's a divisive topic that has no place here. mixing politics with music or sports is bad form. All it does is alienate a certain portion of people who are fans of a band, player,etc. Mickey Hart should have kept his mouth shut. Not that his opinion ever counted anyway —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeah92101 (talk • contribs) 01:32, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
In this recent edit, an image of the American Beauty album cover was deleted from the article, without the use of an edit summary or other explanation. I believe that this image should be restored to the article. The caption said, "The cover of the album American Beauty (1970), which is considered to be the Grateful Dead's studio masterpiece. In 2003, the album was ranked number 258 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums of all time." The caption had two footnotes citing reliable references for these statements. Since American Beauty is one of the key works of the Grateful Dead, and since, as an album, it is uniquely identified by its album cover, and since the use of this image was explained, with references, in the caption, the use of the album cover in this article falls under Wikipedia fair use guidelines. — Mudwater 18:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I changed the date delineation from "1974-79" to "1975-79" because it was misleading to treat Mickey Hart as a part of the band in 1974. One single guest appearance on stage does not make someone a part of the "lineup." If that was the case, for example, then Bruce Hornsby would have been in the "lineup" for much more than just 1990-92. Samstein (talk) 16:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
There is currently a new discussion about whether or not Bruce Hornsby was an official member of the Grateful Dead. It's at Template talk:GratefulDead#bruce hornsby. All editors are encouraged to join the discussion -- there, not here, to keep the discussion in one place. — Mudwater (Talk) 01:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
The article says that the dancing bear icon derives from artwork specially done for the "Bear's Choice" release. However (and I can't provide a source here, which it's why I'm talking in the discussion page), I'm certain I've seen the same "dancing bear" artwork on contemporary (late 60s/early 70s) Warner Bros. record sleeves (Warner was the band's label in this period) for records of other artists, and consequently that the dancing bear icon both predates the 1973 release of "Bear's Choice" and has origins separate and apart from the band. If anyone can back that up with something more solid, I think it would be a good addition. J. G. Graubart (talk) 16:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't recall them playing any reggae music —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.10.2 (talk) 05:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)