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I removed the "copyedit" tag from "traffic laws and enforcement section" I didnt edit other sections because they were not tagged. please tag anything elses neccessary.
helo!
i just want to say that the correct plural of autobahn "Autobahnen" and not "Autobahns" is. I am a german, I have to know it ;)
I have corrected the first mistake in the text, but im too busy to look for other mistakes like that, so please forgive me an correct the others, if they are... ;)
Fabian Weibchen
!Hello, the official name is "Bundesautobahn", short: "BAB". Maybe somebody can fix it, my english is to bead to do it, sorry.
Here we have it again: The myth that that Nazis invented the Autobahn...
The first Autobahn (called AVUS in Berlin) was completed 1921.
The term Autobahn was first used 1926 by Robert Otzen (the chairman of a Road constructiong company ?)
Source: wissen.de
The first real Autobahn (20 km long) connecting Köln and Bonn was completed the 6. August 1932.
Source: http://www.goethe.de/in/d/frames/gaz/didak1932.html
I deleted the following paragraph from the article, because it was a vast exaggeration:
"During the 1980s, a goal was set in West Germany to provide autobahn access within 10 km of every household, but with the German reunification, most of the construction and funds shifted from the west to the neglected east."
I am not aware of any plans to build "Autobahns" within 10 km of every household - especially not in the 1980s, when financing infrastructure projects in Germany was already a problem. Furthermore, there wouldn't even have been enough demand for so many "Autobahns". The most enthusiastic plans came up in the 1970s and can be seen here: http://www.autobahn-online.de/karten/ - you'll notice that even those are nowhere near the "goal" of having Autobahns every 20 km. 195.226.183.31 12:22, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
AFAIK plans did exist to provide all households in West Germany access to an autobahn within 10 km. These plans were conceived when Georg Leber was minister of transport (around 1965). Wolf
The article freely mixes "Autobahn" and "autobahn". It would be good to pick one or the other. I'm not changing it because I don't know whether it's more correct to follow the German convention or the English one. Erics 04:00, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
As explaination that "Autobahnen" is german plural should be okay, in the text we can use "autobahns" as it has been taken into the english vocabulary. btw. "der Kaiser" is one "die Kaiser" are more, Google lies :D so long 84.129.46.149 02:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Autobahn is not a proper noun in english. It should remain autobahn.
In Switzerland, buses are only allowed 100 km/h max on any Autobahn, anything else is plain illegal and if caught, costs way heftier fines than in Germany.
I believe the "Construction" section of the article needs correction and expansion.
PAVEMENT DEPTH
The comparison of pavement depth between 'Autobahnen' and U.S. Interstate highways does not compare like to like. 95% of the pre-war 'Reichsautobahnen' were built with Portland cement concrete, about 8-9" in depth. Most U.S. Interstates built in the 1950's and 1960's using the same material also had slabs 8-9" deep (depending on subgrade conditions), though this has since been increased to 12" to secure a longer life cycle. The main reason so many original concrete 'Autobahnen' are in excellent condition is the Nazis' insistence upon good drainage and granular fill for embankments, combined with light traffic and mild winters in the first years after the roads opened. (It was not uncommon to go for ten to fifteen minutes without seeing another vehicle in either direction.)
The quoted 27" construction depth sounds more characteristic of the 'Autobahn' asphaltic concrete pavement cross-section which was adopted in the Seebohm years following the war. 20-22" is a normal depth for asphaltic concrete in the U.S.A. In actuality there is little difference between U.S. and European procedures for pavement life-cycle cost analysis, although it is true that Europeans tend to use a longer life cycle (typically 40 years versus 20-25 years) in the first instance. Americans will typically build for permanency if a road is expected to have slow traffic growth, but the shorter planning horizon is designed partly to prevent overinvestment in roads which will need radical remodelling due to traffic growth.
GEOMETRIC DESIGN STANDARDS
Nothing is said about design speed classes. There were three in standards published in 1937 and four in standards published in 1942. These classes, which were based on terrain, dictated criteria for maximum grade and minimum horizontal and vertical curve radii. It is not quite correct to say that the maximum grade allowed on 'Autobahnen' was 7%; instead it was 8% for mountain locations under the 1937 standards, and 6.5% for "high mountain" locations under the 1942 standards. The 4% maximum grade applied only to flat-country locations (both 1937 and 1942 standards). The maximum grade on U.S. Interstates, by the way, is 6%, though design exceptions can be obtained for higher grades if adequate justification is provided.
Further information can be found in this post by "J N Winkler" (me writing under a different handle) at
http://www.ukroads.plus.com/archive/MotorwayVsAutobahn.html
(Message 30). The information given in the tables is sourced from a Road Research Laboratory publication, 'German State Motor Roads' (H.M.S.O., 1946), which in turn references the actual standards documents.
Nitpick: in English jurisprudence, "mechanically propelled vehicle" can now mean a bicycle. It would be better to say "Motor vehicle" and to mention that motorcycles were forbidden upon the 'Autobahnen'.
I don't know any person in germany that carries one onboard. it's not a law here ;)
E70 moved the page text to motorway, which I disagree with not because it was a bad idea, but because of how it was executed. The simple copy-and-paste merge made the article look very messy. If someone would be willing to merge the texts and make them flow smoothly, I would have no objections. Anyone up? « alerante ✆ ✉ » 14:57:32, 2005-08-19 (UTC)
The text is now moved to Motorways in Europe. This is an article about European motorways and this is incuding Germany, Switzerland and Austria. The text is rewritten. /E70 11:52, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't see what is a *MAJOR* move having been discussed anywhere. This article is now *WAY* too long and 'motorway' is not just a european term. Please revert this edit asap and put it up for discussion for a merge before taking such a destructive and major action. --Vamp:Willow 12:39, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
This IP user had deleted everything except the starting paragraph. This is not acceptable. On top of it, no comments are given, not a single word written here in the discussion pages.
I have now reverted to the version 22:28, 24 August 2005 Choster -- Klaus with K 14:59, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
"Another theory is that driving faster can increase concentration, leading to less accidents."
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Autobahn&direction=next&oldid=29242215
This is a claim, often heard and supported with anecdotal evidence but unfortunately not true looking at accident statistics. Thus it cannot be called a theory.--Klaus with K 13:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
---
In my opinion it is very true that driving faster is safer. A few weeks ago I had to drive to Munich from Stuttgart, so I used the A8. I drove in the evening, the street was almost totally free. I needed for the 220 Kilometers 52 Minutes. So now you tell me wheter it is safe to be only 52 Minutes on an Autobahn or to drive two hours on it. Don´t forget that there are many maniacs driving very, very fast! Maradona01, 12.1.06
Based upon the exact definitions I do the following calculation:
This gives (rounded to the nearest mile) a partial table of conversions from Km to Mi:
km mi 20 = 12 40 = 25 60 = 37 80 = 50 100 = 62 120 = 75 130 = 81 150 = 93 160 = 99 200 = 124 250 = 155 300 = 186
I will correct the article to reflect these values. Too Old 21:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
130km/h 80mph 160km/h 100mph. 200km/h 125mph
Is it just me or is the picture just a thin line? Image:Autobahn_1-999.png Same on commons. Very puzzling. Agathoclea 20:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I see the whole thing Gaviidae 10:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
That is wrong. Flash headlight or even pushing the horn (out of town) is in Germany an allowed overtaking sign.
It is legal to flash headlight 'out of town' (ausserhalb geschlossener Ortschaften) in order to signal the intention to overtake. This includes the autobahn. However, flashing light or left turn signal can be understood as coercion when there is no possibility to pull over to the right lane. But normally this behavior goes along with tailgaiting which is fined anyway. Still, you won't get fined for a single flashing light while keeping your distance and free right lane. This is legal according to §5.
I ask because my grandfather took photos during WW2 (aerial) of a portion crossing a river that was destroyed. I don't know who bombed it, any info?
yes. i have read in a newspaper, that there was a bomb found that have rested (while millions of cars passing the spot) since WW2 under the pavement of an autobahn....
The article says "President Dwight Eisenhower first adopted the idea in his visit to Germany during World War II." First, he wasn't president during the war, and second, he wasn't exactly "visiting" Germany -- he was blasting the hell out of it!
Sca 15:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
The article states that it is not uncommon to see cars speeding at 300km/h. There is no source for that statement and I doubt its acuracy very much. In fact a study says that the 85percentiel for traffic in Germany in only marginally higher than in other countries where there is a speed limit. Agathoclea 08:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone just go to Germany and rent a car there or do you need to be a citizen/resident?
Generally, renting is possible by carriers of foreign drivers' licenses. If you move there, you have to go to the driving board and see if your license meets the requirements of International License (meaning they'll issue you a German one without test or lessons). This usualy works for people with other EU driving licenses, since the road signs and many of the rules are the same (not always). Maybe I shouldn't say this, because this is based on some research I did for getting a Dutch drivers' license, and there was some EU info in there that I'm applying to Germany. However, I know of Americans who've travelled to various countries in Europe and renting a car was no problem. Gaviidae 10:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Generally, an International license should be enough. But, please, take some time to know the different rules, especially if you plan to drive with high speed on the Autobahn. An unexperienced driver can get himself killed quite easily. MikeZ 13:00, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
This sentence:
I just have no clue what this means. What's the lane next to the left lane? The grass to the left of the left lane? In between the left and right lanes?? Or is this a road with three lanes, and "left lane" really means the middle?? Because there isn't a lane next to the left lane, just a barrier usually. In the US, the right breakdown lane (or the left breakdown if there is one) is usually used by emergency vehicles, and during a jam no-one is supposed to drive in said breakdown lanes for that reason (although some people invariably do anyway). I'd love to fix the above sentence for more clarity, but I can't until I know what it really means. Help Gaviidae 10:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
The whole arrangement is pretty messy. Also, this article seems to be too long. Maybe it should be split, indeed. --Ub 02:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
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