It's good to see that this article has been developed to a high standard, but I think it needs a fair bit of additional work to reach FA level. I have the following comments:
- "Falklands enjoy internal self-governance" - 'enjoy' is a bit odd in this context
- "an estimated 2,932 in 2012" - the lead should note that this excluded the large number of British military personnel in the islands. Given that its based on census data 'estimated' is also not really appropriate: this is a pretty firm figure, and the source does not call it an estimate
- Does the UN actually call the islands "Falkland Islands (Malvinas)"? The source stresses that this is a listing of names used to help with statistical processing and that they do not have any official status.
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- No it isn't, or I wouldn't have raised this. If the name is only used by UN statistical staff for processing purposes (as the source provided states) it's not of any real significance and should be omitted from the article. The question is if the UN uses it as its default designation for the islands. Nick-D (talk) 08:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Addressed. Interestingly, it was the Tanzanian representative who suggested the nomenclature. Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 15:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- "The settlements' mutual awareness is a subject of debate." - what's meant by this? (were the settlers not aware of the other settlement? - if so, I'd suggest using clearer language)
- "a pastoral settlement was established by Scotsmen and a governor" - was this an official colonial settlement? (also, 'Scotsmen' is sexist unless this was really a male-only settlement)
- Addressed. Added "official" prior to pastoral and removed "men" from "Scotsmen" (which is what the source used).--MarshalN20 Talk 19:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- "During the first half of the 20th century, the Falklands played a prominent role during the two world wars as a military base aiding control of the South Atlantic" - no they didn't. In both world wars the islands were a base of middling importance during the first months of the war, and a total backwater thereafter. No forces of any importance were based in the islands, and Simonstown in South Africa was the main British base in the South Atlantic
- " another naval encounter near the archipelago" - that battle was fought off Argentina and Brazil, and nowhere near the Falklands
- " resulted in the Royal Navy's victory over the Kriegsmarine" - overstatement. A force of British ships batted a single German heavy cruiser which then scuttled herself.
- If you want to talk about World War II, a more important development was the dispatch of a battalion of British troops to protect the islands from a potential Japanese invasion(!), and - more sensibly - discourage the Argentines from attempting an invasion while British forces were tied down against Germany and Japan
- "However, negotiations between the United Kingdom and Argentina reached no meaningful conclusion" - something of an oversimplification given that the British government strongly indicated that it would be willing to eventually hand the islands over to Argentina at one point.
- "After the war the United Kingdom expanded its military presence on the islands, building RAF Mount Pleasant and increasing the size of its garrison,[52] and the UK and Argentina "normalised" diplomatic relations in 1990." - the last part of this sentence is on a different topic from the remainder
- What's the role of the appointed Chief Executive of the islands? (it seems unusual to have a non-democratically elected person with a prominent role in actually running a democratic state)
- There is nothing unusual about the Chief Executive's role. Prof. Vincenzo Sainato writes: "The chief executive and six-member executie council are responsible for the daily management and delivery of government services on the Islands." In other words, the Chief Executive is the head of government. This is what is already stated, and there really is nothing else to add about it.--MarshalN20 Talk 11:25, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I can't think of another democratic state where the head of government is appointed rather than elected, so it seems appropriate to expand upon this a little. Is this done because the islands are too small to sustain or require a full-time elected head of government? (the mayors of similarly-sized and populated local government areas in Australia are usually work in the role on a part time basis, with the full-time CEO of the council being responsible for the day to day running of the local government's functions). Nick-D (talk) 11:46, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, this is something different (from "what is the role?" to "why is this the case?"). The request is very interesting, but seems excessive for the article. Looking at the lengthy Germany featured article, which presents the head of government (Chancellor) as also appointed rather than elected, I do not find any explanation as to why this is the case (or why power is in the hands of the "third-highest official"). Coming from Peru, all of these different systems are interesting (the President in my country is the head of state & government, as well as the highest elected official). The literature on the topic, for the Falklands, also does not bother to explain why the Chief Executive has this role. These roles are all presented as facts; it's a standard.--MarshalN20 Talk 15:13, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you sure that the chief executive is actually the head of government? The constitution (which is the referenced source) actually says that the chief executive is the head of the islands' public service, which is a different thing altogether (eg, he's the head of the civil service, but doesn't necessarily have authority over the elected MLAs as the term 'head of government' implies). The constituion also says that the CE doesn't have the right to vote in meetings of the executive council (only the elected MLAs have this right). This news story says that the current chief executive was selected through an interview process conducted by MLAs and was appointed by the governor on "advice" from the executive council, which is also a rather different concept from only the governor making the appointment as the article says (the convention in British-style governments is that the appointed governors always follows "advice" from the elected government, with their role being to rubber stamp this and provide a fall back to resolve constitutional and political crises). Nick-D (talk) 11:37, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- That's a good question. I reached the conclusion based on Prof. Sainato's explanation, but a closer inspection does indicate matters to be a tad more complex. According to Prof. Robert Buckman, in his book Latin America 2012 (p. 394), the Falklands has two heads of government, the governor and the chief executive. I'm going to have the article reflect what Buckman directly points out. Thanks for the catch.--MarshalN20 Talk 11:50, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- " has led authorities to contain, remove or exterminate invasive species" - should this be 'attempt to contain...' given that such efforts are very difficult?
- The article doesn't note the significant drop in the islands population which took place during the 20th century (from about 3000 to 2000 people, from memory), and the associated economic decline. This is hinted at in the 'Demographics' section, but never explicitly stated.
- Addressed. @Nick-D: Is this the last point, or are there further matters to address?--MarshalN20 Talk 14:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Watch for over-linking (eg, Camp is linked several times)
- There should be an internet link to the CIA World Factbook
- It's already in the reference citations. Is another link necessary?--MarshalN20 Talk 21:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Is the claim that "Agriculture (primarily sheep farming and fishing) accounts for 95 percent of the Falkland Islands' gross domestic product" accurate? The CIA World Fact Book contains this statistic, but also states that "The economy was formerly based on agriculture, mainly sheep farming but fishing and tourism currently comprise the bulk of economic activity". The Census results state that only 11% of islanders work in agriculture, and the Falklands Islands Government website says that tourism isn't much smaller than agriculture [2] (though the wording is unclear)
- I can only work with the sources available. The CIA World Factbook estimate may be outdated since it was last calculated in 1996. The website you link to does, however, provide a statistic on the fishing industry. I'll work with both sources to improve the picture on the economy.--MarshalN20 Talk 22:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The source is obviously wrong, not least as the statistic is contradicted by the commentary which accompanies it. Nick-D (talk) 08:43, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The CIA include fishing and sheep farming into "agriculture". Rather than obvious error or contradiction, the CIA are referring to the Primary sector of the economy, which some economists simply label "agriculture". I'll clarify the text.--MarshalN20 Talk 15:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- There is simply no way that the 95% figure is accurate, especially given that the Falklands Government says that the size of the tourism industry (which falls under the services sector) is almost as large as the agriculture industry. The Falkland Islands Economic Development Strategy (available via [3]) has various figures which look useful - the table at the end states that agriculture and fisheries accounted for 62% of gross value added in 2009. It would be also worth digging around UK government websites to see if they have more recent/better figures. Nick-D (talk) 03:30, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Addressed (I hope). I included information from a 2014 book which had a whole chapter devoted to the Falkland Islands economy. It just came out last month! Very lucky find.--MarshalN20 Talk 21:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you sure that that book is a reliable source? It appears to have been published by a self-publishing outfit, and Global Investment and Business Center doesn't appear to have an online presence. Nick-D (talk) 10:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I checked the publisher ([4]), and found no reason to doubt the quality of the source. The company specializes in publishing country business guides. The data being cited is also quite accurate, based on what we had been discussing here. Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 11:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you please explain how you reached that conclusion? The website doesn't seem to provide any details on the firm's authors/researchers or other credentials, which is highly unusual for this kind of business. Nick-D (talk) 02:02, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I explained my conclusion in the last two sentences of my previous statement. Their Amazon.com listing is also indicative of their area of expertise ([5]). Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 10:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- That company looks anything but reliable: it names no authors for its works, which is hugely unusual for this kind of business, and appears to operate on a printing on demand model. Nick-D (talk) 08:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright Nick, I will find another (more reliable) source for it. Would addressing this issue be the last suggestion, or are there others?--MarshalN20 Talk 11:21, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still to look through the diffs to double check that my comments have been addressed, and have raised a point above Nick-D (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Nick, I addressed this economics part. I used the data from the FI government website. I also used The Guardian's report to include a part on the employment.--MarshalN20 Talk 13:27, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- "Development projects in education and sports have been funded by the Falklands government, without aid from the United Kingdom" - this seems misleading. The UK government has invested heavily in the islands' economy since 1982 (with the military presence being a major source of economic support, even if formal development assistance is no longer being provided), and it's not clear to me how 'sports' will develop the islands' economy.
- Sports help develop the human capital of the national economy. I don't find the text misleading. By explicitly indicating that education and sports are funded by the Falklands government, the sentence implicitly points out that other projects are not (and other parts of the article mention that the UK invested heavily in the islands).--MarshalN20 Talk 18:18, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- "excluding British Ministry of Defence personnel and families based at RAF Mount Pleasant" - this wording is a little bit unclear: the census states that it does not include "military personnel serving in the Falkland Islands or their dependents", and not just those at Mount Pleasant (this is the main British base, but there's also a network of radar stations and a military port). It would be good to note how many service personnel and dependants are in the islands given that they make up a large chunk of the total population (according to The Guardian, there were 1,300 uniformed personnel and 50 civilians in 2013: [6])
- Addressed. The Guardian's information is from a 2012 report sent to the UK Parliament.--MarshalN20 Talk 17:02, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Is Wagstaff a reliable source? Tourist guides are generally not considered great resources.
- I'd suggest adding the British official history of the Falklands War to the 'further reading' section: as far as I'm aware, this is the major recent study of the history of the islands (it covers the period from the 1600s until the mid 1980s).
- I agree with Ranger Steve's suggestion that the article include more coverage of the tourism industry (including the unique challenges posed by the very limited air routes into the islands) Nick-D (talk) 11:19, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The lead currently states that the Falklands War was "undeclared". I've tried to fix this, but am being reverted. An 'undeclared' war is usually a covert war of some kind, or a war fought through proxies. This didn't apply to the high intensity conflict in 1982, especially as both sides recognised the other as formal belligerents for the purposes of the Geneva Conventions and the like and the British declared a formal blockade of the islands (an Argentinian and a British hospital ship actually operated in close proximity off the Falklands for much of the conflict as the British recognised the Argentines right to deploy such a vessel, and vice-versa). Nick-D (talk) 08:40, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Addressed, I think. Consensus was favorable to the removal of "undeclared".--MarshalN20 Talk 21:09, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nick, your review is much appreciated.
I'll address and/or respond each of your points as I go through them. I will save my answers in this page every so often, but this does not mean I am ignoring the other suggestions (I may need to take breaks here and there).
- Responses
- Addressed. "Enjoy" changed to "have".
- Addressed. Footnote added. The word "estimated" is accurate. Having taken three advanced (boring & terrifying) statistics courses, I assure you that all statistical data at the macro level is an estimate.
- I'm actually a qualified demographer :) It's unusual to refer to Census population results as an 'estimate' as they have something close to a 100% response rate and the element of them which are estimated due to non-response is normally pretty minor (though you are, of course, right in pointing out that there are inaccuracies in Census data - the level of education people claim to have is often entirely wrong, for instance): the results are usually presented as 'X people were in the country at the time of the census'. In a small society like the Falklands where they knew exactly how many citizens were out of the country at the time of the Census the figure should be very reliable - the census results summary actually notes that the statistician rang up households who appeared to have filled in their form incorrectly to double check the details with them! Nick-D (talk) 08:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- That's neat. I'm still a little doubtful about the total accuracy of the census, but it's a minor matter that does no merit great debate. I trust your professional status, so I will edit as you suggest. Addressed. [:)]--MarshalN20 Talk 14:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, the UN officially calls the islands "Falkland Islands (Malvinas)". Their disclaimer at the bottom of the source is specifically meant to be an apology (neutrality declaration) in case the UN naming policy offends anyone.
- OK, but that needs to be supported by a reliable source which says that Nick-D (talk) 08:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Your edited version of the text in question is good.--MarshalN20 Talk 14:29, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- There's two perspectives. One is that both settlements knew about each other, which favors the Spanish/Argentine position, and the other is that the British settlement had no idea the French had settled the islands, which favors the UK's position. I'll try to fix the wording.
- I'll continue with this in a little bit.
- Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 12:35, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- It would probably be easiest if you could respond to my comments immediately below each one so that I (and others) can easily track the responses. Nick-D (talk) 08:46, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay. Thanks!--MarshalN20 Talk 14:29, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nick-D, WCM added material into the history section. I think we have addressed everything you recommended. What do you think, yay or nay for FA support? Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delays. From a quick check of the overall diffs my above comments are addressed, but I have some new ones on the new material:
- I'm a bit sceptical about whether all the notes at the end of the article are needed. Notes B, G, L don't seem necessary, and I'd suggest reviewing the others.
- I can remove L. However, B and G have relevance in the sovereignty dispute. I plan on copy-editing the Shackleton note.--MarshalN20 Talk 12:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- "Thereafter, the archipelago became a harbour for fishing ships; " - provided harbours perhaps? (harbours aren't islands ;) )
- U.K. or UK? Both appear and consistency is needed (I'd suggest UK, which dominates in the article, but both are basically correct)
- " international air travel was made possible via RAF Mount Pleasant" - international flights to Argentina took place through Port Stanley Airport before the war (a persistent concern of the pre-war military forces in the Falklands was that the Argentines could invade the island by packing a scheduled flight with troops!)
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- I'm not sure that "RAF Mount Pleasant was improved to allow international air travel outside of Stanley" is correct. My understanding is that RAF Mount Pleasant was built specifically to be able to take very large intercontinental aircraft to allow the British to fly transports in, as well as to accommodate high performance fighter aircraft, and it replaced Stanley as the island's international airport. The opening of this facility permitted intercontinental flights for the first time (I'm not sure if Stanley Airport could accommodate flights from anywhere other than Argentina given that large jet aircraft couldn't safely land there). Nick-D (talk) 10:41, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Nick, Stanley was built for short haul flights, the biggest it could handle safely was the Fokker F28 of LADE. They flew in 737 during the war but it was a tadge risky as the runway really isn't long enough for a jet that big. WCMemail 11:10, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Saying that the chief executive is appointed by the governor doesn't seem correct: he or she appears to be appointed by the governor on the advice of MLAs, which is entirely different to the governor appointing them themselves (eg, as its the MLAs who make the decision which the governor then rubber stamps).
- Addressed.--MarshalN20 Talk 12:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- What role does the British minister with responsibility for the islands play? Nick-D (talk) 11:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- This is the same as another question asked earlier. As in the other case, I cannot find a source that explains what the minister does; all that is known is that the position and the person in charge exist. None of the other featured articles explain the role of their officials.--MarshalN20 Talk 12:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- At the present the article says that the islands are self governing except in relation to foreign affairs and defence, so identifying a British minister with responsibility for them seems odd. Judging from the minister's official website [7] it appears that he's responsible for administering British foreign policy regarding the Falklands. Nick-D (talk) 10:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes thats correct, the Minister of State is responsible for administering foreign policy. This includes nominating the Governor by the way. WCMemail 11:10, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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