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June 29

Category:Ukrainian resistance movement

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 16:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Don't see any meaningful difference between what these two categories are for. GCarty (talk) 21:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Parks in Białystok

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Parks in Podlaskie Voivodeship and Category:Tourist attractions in Poland and Category:Białystok. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 05:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 19:11, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Foreign relations of the medieval Islamic world

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge/delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 10:47, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Next step after yesterday's nomination re Treaties. Sorry, I started this before noticing that the nominator was planning further stages. Anyway, I think these clearly follow the same rationale. The members of "Diplomats from" do not need merging as they are already within "Medieval diplomats" by century, and I do not think they should be added to Category:Officials of the medieval Islamic world because that is currently a container category. – Fayenatic London 08:07, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done the "not yets". Now nothing stands in the way of deleting Diplomats from tmIw. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:43, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Except my earlier request for merging to Category:Officials of the medieval Islamic world still stands. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure, but there would be no reason to do it. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 19:58, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is now agreement to delete the third category, but the first two remain unresolved.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:16, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to me that Fayenatic, Marcocapelle and I agree, and only Al-Andalusi objects. But this objection appears to be outdated since 4 June, when Category:Treaties of the medieval Islamic world was merged under the understanding that only state and non-state actors can conclude treaties. Fayenatic's rationale here is the Next step after yesterday's nomination re Treaties, under the understanding that only state or non-state actors can have "foreign" relations and ambassadors. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:17, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:21, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Film directors from Alappuzha

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Film directors from Alappuzha district. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 10:58, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT created for just one person. As always, "occupation by city" intersections are not automatically created the moment any given intersection of those two things describes one person with a Wikipedia article, so he should just be categorized at the state level until such time as there are far more people to file here than this. For added bonus, the entry's article fails to state or source that he's "from" Alappuzha at all, meaning that the category isn't even properly verified as accurate in the first place. Bearcat (talk) 14:27, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:36, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Currently 35 articles in category.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 18:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Horse farms in Asia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 16:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary by-continent level of categorization. The only subcategory Category:Horse farms in Japan is already in the fairly small parent category Category:Horse farms by country which is sufficient. Pichpich (talk) 18:02, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Thai Industrial Standards

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 11:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer since the target is nearly empty. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:37, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:43, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:59, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Australian Survivor contestants

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete (again). After this was relsited at DRV it's recieved a keep !vote from the DRV nominator and three uninvolved delete !votes, clearly indicating that the community has not found the argument for keeping convincing. (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 16:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: As these people were already famous this is not WP:DEFINING and therefore nothing more than a WP:PERFCAT. --woodensuperman 12:21, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisted per consensus at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2023 May 22. I don't have an easy way to re-add all the pages that were formerly members of this category, but you can see the list at this link.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:29, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:SUBTOPICCAT, redirect pages are included as part of categories, especially with these articles being highly likely to be created in future. Happily888 (talk) 12:34, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the category exists, yes, but this category should be deleted. There is no consistent definingness. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:54, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm conceptually very open minded that WP:PERFCAT doesn't apply to reality show contestants on their initial show because that's the only reason they're notable and I've iVoted against several of WS's nominations on that basis. But, clicking through the articles that exist so far in this cat, the vast majority are already notable before the show. - RevelationDirect (talk) 04:33, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I've restored most of the pages to the category, if that helps.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:36, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Medieval documents of Norway

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Documents about medieval Norway. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 05:46, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:Medieval documents of Norway to Category:Medieval documents about Norway
Nominator's rationale: The current name is ambiguous. Are these medieval documents... Written in Norway? Found in Norway? Owned by Norway? Preserved in Norway? Or... about Norway? I think they are about Norway. Grandparent Category:Medieval texts by region suggests it has something to do with "region/area/location", but just like with "Manuscripts by area", I think "location/area/region" is not only ambiguous, but also WP:NONDEFINING. So let's make it about Norway, Norway as the topic of these documents. (This will have consequences for the rest of the tree, but I'm taking this as a simple test case). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alt rationale: Per WP:C2C parent Category:Medieval Norway, Category:Documents about medieval Norway might be an even better idea. They are about Norway in the Middle Ages. Aslak Bolt's cadastre was written in medieval Norway, but that's not really relevant. It is preserved in National Archives of Norway, but that is the "by collection" tree. Moreover, the Diplomatarium Norvegicum and Regesta Norvegica are both 19th-century publications of source documents, so strictly speaking they themselves aren't medieval and weren't "written in medieval Norway" anyway, only the texts they contain. Neither "found in" or "owned by" seems to be relevant either; medieval Norway doesn't exist anymore and can't "own" anything, and books published after 1500 can't be "found in" it anymore. So, only "Documents about medieval Norway" is really WP:DEFINING for all three items. (Sometimes you just have to figure this out to realise an entire category tree needs better names). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:29, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Perhaps it could be renamed, but should the main category be "Medieval Norwegian literature" as a subcategory of "Norwegian literature". And how does Category:Old Norse literature fit in? It is a suibcategory of both Nordic literature and Early Germanic literature? Hugo999 (talk) 09:06, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Medieval Norwegian literature" currently doesn't exist, and I'm not sure if it would really help with anything. Category:History of literature in Norway goes back no further than the 19th century (presumably because no Norwegian state existed before 1814?).
Category:Old Norse literature is about what language certain texts are written in, not about topic, nor about area/location/region.Because it is language-based, both Category:Medieval literature by language and Category:Early Germanic literature are proper parents. But because it includes Category:Sagas about locations outside the Nordic countries (as apty shown by Category:Saga locations, ranging from Carpathian Mountains to Vinland), I think Category:Nordic literature is WP:NONDEFINING for Old Norse literature, and is not a good parent.
Incidentally, I noticed that both Diplomatarium Norvegicum and Regesta Norvegica are in Category:Norwegian manuscripts, which contains pages on manuscripts in the Old Norwegian language, i.e. from the earliest fragments of the 12th century to the mid-16th century. The category descripion, in fact, argues (at surprising length) about why this category should exist separately from Category:Icelandic manuscripts because Old Norwegian is different from Old Icelandic. I guess this means we should rename it to Category:Old Norwegian manuscripts then, just to be clear that "Norwegian" refers to language and not country here. We could also merge Category:Medieval documents of Norway into it, since 2 of the 3 items are already in both, and Aslak Bolt's cadastre also qualifies for it. We could let the whole "about Norway" plan go in favour of a purely language-based category tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Drama films by year

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:04, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Propose containerization of
Propose deletion of
Nominator's rationale: containerize, "drama" is not a real genre and it is not a differentiating characteristic since the large majority of films are drama films. With the exception of the 1900s categories, it is too early for deletion because there are many subcategories under them. This is follow-up on this earlier discussion, @JDDJS, William Allen Simpson, Bearcat, Andrzejbanas, SnowFire, LaundryPizza03, Fayenatic london, Pppery, and Jc37: pinging contributors to earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:02, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding your second point, it was a deliberate choice to not nominate the entire tree at once. For drama films by country we may need different solutions than for drama films by year. We are now discussing by year. Films by year, e.g. Category:1910 films are not container categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:33, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Doesn't matter whether these categories are containers or not. Your own stated intention is to eventually blow out all "drama films" categories across the board, so the fact that there are container categories that will be disrupted by your own stated intention as soon you get around to them, based on exactly the same reasoning you're using here, is relevant here regardless of whether these categories are containers or not. Bearcat (talk) 18:01, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The first of those WT:FILM discussions was also proposing limits on new triple-intersection categories. That would seem to give weight against the proposal to containerise, in case some of the sub-cats may be less supportable than "drama films".
But have "drama films" ever been deprecated by a consensus at WT:FILM? The nominator does not seem to have advertised this discussion there. IMHO this nomination should not progress without explicit support from WP:FILM. – Fayenatic London 21:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: May require community-wide discussion about the use of the drama film label.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:22, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:08, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kievan Rus' royalty

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 9#Category:Kievan Rus' royalty

Category:Murdered socialists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. – Fayenatic London 13:05, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization for a non-defining intersection of unrelated traits. We do not have any scheme of "murdered people by political orientation" for this to be part of -- no Category:Murdered communists, no Category:Murdered liberals, no Category:Murdered conservatives, no Category:Murdered fascists, etc. -- and there's no indication of why murdered socialists would need special treatment above and beyond murdered anything-elses. Bearcat (talk) 17:34, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a fair point, we should be consistent. What matters, in my opinion, is assassinated politicians (for which we already have a category tree but not by ideology) and assassinated political activists (for which we probably have only one category, namely for anarchists). But just a random murder is not a defining intersection with politics. I am primarily opposing having "murdered politicians" categories here. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:45, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 07:27, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am not sure if I agree with that. But there is one article about being sentenced to death (as Nl Leeuw mentioned earlier) and three articles about being killed by police, which do not belong in an assassinated category. The remaining three articles are already in Category:Assassinated politicians by nationality. So then this category may just as well be deleted after all. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:59, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:04, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Philosophers of Judaism

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 18#Category:Philosophers of Judaism

Category:German chronicles

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. I'm not sure 4 different options is a good way to get consensus. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 15:16, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose renaming Category:German chronicles to Category:Chronicles about Germany
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:History books about Germany. This is in the Category:Works by topic tree. I've split off Category:German-language chronicles to make the distinction clear. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 20:57, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alt 1 rationale: per Marcocapelle: that is the more often used name in medieval context. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:03, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alt 2 rationale: per Category:Medieval Germany. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:03, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alt 3 rationale: We could actually do both. Chronicles about medieval Fooland (if Fooland was wholly or almost wholly within the HRE during the Middle Ages, e.g. Belgium except most of Flanders, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, about half of Poland etc.) could become a child of newly created parent Category:Chronicles about the Holy Roman Empire. We could rename Category:Latin chronicles about Austria to Category:Latin chronicles about medieval Austria etc. and re-parent them to Category:Chronicles about the Holy Roman Empire. Renaming Category:German chronicles to Category:Chronicles about medieval Germany (Alt 2 proposal) is to be preferred for procedural reasons, because Category:German chronicles is in the Category:Works about Germany tree. Category:Chronicles about the Holy Roman Empire is to be created as a new parent. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:03, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 00:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:57, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Top of the Pops presenters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 16:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT: "Avoid categorizing performers by their performances" --woodensuperman 14:44, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1515 in Morocco

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 16:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT for just one thing, in a country that doesn't otherwise have any other year-specific categories in this century. As always, everything does not automatically need to be sifted down to the narrowest possible level of subcategorization the moment there's one article that would fit -- this would be fine if there were a lot of 1515 events to file here, but it does not aid navigation of Wikipedia to obsessively filter everything down to microcategories of one. Bearcat (talk) 13:00, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Defensive gun use

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 July 18#Category:Defensive gun use

Imperial Chinese government officials

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 16:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename per precedent (1) and (2). These categories are even deeper in the tree, but now we have had all of them. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:24, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Documentary films about talk show hosts

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Documentary films about television people. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 05:50, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT of unclear necessity. As always, everything that films could possibly be "about" does not automatically get its own dedicated category the moment there's one film about it -- there would need to be at least five or six films about talk show hosts before this was warranted. But there are only two articles here, which isn't enough. Bearcat (talk) 04:11, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category