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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  05:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unlabel[edit]

Unlabel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Notability not established, primarily unreliable sources, most of article is unreferenced. Nouniquenames (talk) 23:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 00:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 00:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 00:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Simple vote counting puts delete votes slightly ahead of keep votes (roughly 60/40). An analysis of the arguments shows that most Keep voters argue that the topic passes WP:GNG, owing to the vast quantity of sources available on the subject. That argument is countered to some degree by those claiming that the vast majority of the sources are not primarily about the specific topic of Kutcher's use of Twitter, but otherwise I believe the consensus is that the topic most likely passes WP:GNG. However, the Delete voters make a compelling case for why passing WP:GNG doesn't matter in this case, and that's because policy trumps guidelines. The policy in this case is WP:NOT, in particular WP:INDISCRIMINATE (and to some degree WP:NOTDIARY), which states that "merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia." In the discussions below, there are many examples of other potential topics that receive a lot of coverage in reliable sources, but otherwise would not be suitable for an article as they would violate WP:NOT. In any case, I would be ok with restoring the article for the purpose of merging some of its material to other articles, upon request on my talk page. -Scottywong| comment _ 19:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Ashton Kutcher on Twitter[edit]

Ashton Kutcher on Twitter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, I am not sure how a person's account on Twitter can be seen as being worthy of an account.

Things like Category:Celebrity_Twitter_accounts make a mockery of building an encyclopaedia. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Justin Bieber on Twitter just became a WP:GA and there is a lot of encyclopedic content that belongs in this article that is to detailed for a general biography. The article clearly passes WP:GNG.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep although when I passed the Justin Bieber on Twitter GA, I did note that I don't really like Twitter articles. However, it passes WP:GNG so it is acceptable. Regards, ⇒TAP 13:52, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:52, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Please don't take this as argumentative or confrontational as it's not meant to be. But the sentence "They <Kutcher and GF> were a measuring stick by which Twitter was determined to have gone mainstream in early 2009." and the accompanying source is evidence for the notability of the Twitter article, not a justification for an entire article on Kutcher's Twitter account. And, to paraphrase Vituzzu's comments, non-notability is a definite reason to delete an article but the reverse is not necessarily true. Notability ("fame and popularity") is not a guarantee for inclusion. If an article doesn't measure up to any of the Wikipedia:Five pillars, the "fundamental principles" of the project, it shouldn't be included. This article doesn't measure up to the first pillar: there's no redeeming academic value, it is WP:INDISCRIMINATE and fails WP:NOT#NEWSREPORTS--William Thweatt Talk | Contribs 21:38, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quote and source are evidence for the notability of the article in question, also. You have not said why you feel INDISCRIMINATE and NOTNEWS apply, so I will not address those. I would love for "academic value" to be given the weight of a rule or essay as a point in favor of inclusion, like a sort of tiebreaker, but AFAIK it has no standing in a deletion discussion, nor would I want it to. Anarchangel (talk) 21:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As an academic writing in this area, yes, there is redeeming academic value. --LauraHale (talk) 21:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Academic writing? --Vituzzu (talk) 22:04, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My doctoral thesis is in this area, and I've had more conversations with academics about Twitter, Twitter's role in society, Twitter metrics than you'd probably like to know. I've also talked to people in three departments in my university about this topic in how to design coursework related to this topic, and I've given a training session for industry folks where this type of material would be covered. Twitter is being written about extensively in various parts of the academic world. If you want to cry no-academic value, as some one in that space, it doesn't wash. I suppose the people writing about extinct birds and first century generals from Greece are unlikely to write about Twitter academically, but others in communications, popular culture studies, sociology and business are. --LauraHale (talk) 22:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My claim is that there is no academic value in maintaining individual "X on Twitter" articles (I should have been more clear on that). We already have an article, Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians where the use of these Twitter accounts can written about and centralized. If that's not enough, see my suggestions below. After all, if I'm reading what your saying correctly, it's the use of these twitter accounts that is of interest, not the existence of them. The individual "X on Twitter" articles just border on WP:Fancruft.
That would be nice. I have a whole chapter in my thesis about a specific twitter account. There is academic value in maintaining these because they are a great launching off point for people in several fields doing work in this area. The individual articles, which clearly pass WP:GNG, offer valid case studies. This is why they are of academic interest, despite the claims you're making otherwise. --LauraHale (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would think that the information that provides "value in that they explain how social media and current culture work" should be in the twitter article. If, indeed, it is the case that there is some useful academic information it should be combined into a "meta-article" such as "Twitter in Marketing" or "Twitter's use in popular culture" and have these "famous and popular" examples redirected and included as examples, rather than having multiple individual "X on Twitter" articles and dealing with the same issues every time a new one comes up.
How long do you propose making these articles if you include all the heavily covered WP:GNG eligible Twitter accounts? The case studies these articles represent in an academic sense would quickly explode out a page and could not be dealt with with out presenting WP:UNDUE problems. I think you're trying to cite academic work as an excuse with out having much familiarity with the multi-discplinary work being done in this sphere. WP:IDONTLIKEIT appears to me what the argument boils down because the academic one is not a valid argument. --LauraHale (talk) 02:44, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So why doesn't it fall under WP:OR? (Theoretically it could have been a COI too) --Vituzzu (talk) 11:21, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The whole thing is reliably sourced, passes WP:GNG, does not do WP:SYNTH to try to push a point of view that the sources do not support. Hence, it is not WP:OR. What sort of WP:COI are you implying? If you're implying Tony has one, I need to see some evidence of it. If you're implying I have it, early draft of my thesis shows this has little to do with my methodological approach and isn't fundamental to my topic. I'm not supporting this with the intention of using it in a classroom. As an argument had been made this was not of academic interest, I pointed out it clearly WAS of academic interest. No WP:COI there. Go fish again? --LauraHale (talk) 11:34, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to deem it fishing but, again, it's always you saying it has some academic interest, it has a "stand-alone" importance, all the infos in the page are in topic (even these) and, finally, it's always you saying it passes WP:GNG. --Vituzzu (talk) 23:53, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You said it doesn't have academic interest, based on criteria I do not understand. The article clearly passes WP:GNG because Kutcher's Twitter usage has been covered independently of other Kutcher topics. I think there would be a struggle for over half the articles on Wikipedia to have as many media references as Kutcher on Twitter. And the topic does have stand alone importance because the goal to get a million followers was widely covered by the media and demonstrates social media related issues in wider culture and marketing. You've yet to demonstrate the topic doesn't pass WP:GNG unless you dismiss thousands of articles from multiple media organisations from several different places around the globe. You haven't offered a compelling reason why this would not be of academic interest, despite claiming it isn't. Google Scholar shows you're wrong about academic interest. This appears to be a fishing expedition, especially when WP:COI was thrown in, in order to justify a vote based on WP:IDONTLIKEIT. I don't like articles about Pokemon or Bieber albums but they pass WP:GNG so they stay. --LauraHale (talk) 05:16, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So your best point is in order to justify a vote based on WP:IDONTLIKEIT, is it a kind invite to leave the discussion? Again, you're both producing and judging academic production about that topic, that's a form of COI, since is quite natural all of us will tend to underline the relevance of his own research topics. I already said why, according to me, it doesn't pass the GNG and the only answer I got is such a sort of mantra "it passes WP:GNG" (repeated n-times). As I tried to say dozens of times nothing shows it has an "stand-alone" relevancy, it can be easily summarized and merged into Kutcher's page. --Vituzzu (talk) 11:31, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break - Non-vote consensus?[edit]

Keep Given the citations available and the arguments above and below, this appears to be a notable and discrete topic in the "new media" category, like the articles about individual "blogs." Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break 2 - Relisting[edit]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DGG ( talk ) 05:21, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • P.S. - For what it's worth, I recently iVoted to delete Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Personal life of Jennifer Lopez largely because it failed Wikipedia:Summary style, due in part to the lack of cooperation with the editors of the Jennifer Lopez article and lack of restraint in adding trivial details to the Personal life of Jennifer Lopez article. The 'Ashton Kutcher on Twitter' article has cooperation with the editors of the Ashton Kutcher (even though there is some disagreement) and shows retraint on adding trivial details to the 'Ashton Kutcher on Twitter' article. Plus, it has what I noted above. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because his twitter account has gotten ample coverages in the media, for being so popular, as well as various things that have happened involving it. That isn't synthesis. Dream Focus 16:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • DGG: I have (sub after reorganisation) chapters on Brendon Fevola on Twitter and Anna Meares on Twitter, with a fair bit about Zac Dawson on Twitter. Very early drafts of this material can be found here, here and here. If anyone created those, I'd probably support deletion of them. As Kutcher is not an Australian sport topic, it would not fit into my topic. I could probably easily write a paper about Kutcher on Twitter. If I was very motivated, I could probably get it published in an academic journal of first rate in popular culture, but you'd be looking at a six month to two year lag AFTER I submitted it. (Conference presentation would thus be easier.) I've had a debate as to whether or not I could probably get away with, with conference organiser permission, present Justin Bieber on Twitter as a conference "paper" but that's because the quality of that article is much, much higher. (If I wanted to spend the time, there are a number of accounts that I could probably do that for.) It is important to remember that with a topic like social media, there is going to be an academic lag in writing about it. (Thus, conference papers better.) The publishing methods do not allow for faster times to publish. Hence, there is a reliance on newspaper sources.--LauraHale (talk) 04:54, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Specifically looking behind pay wall data bases I have access to, I can see one article directly on this topic: "The real meaning of Ashton Kutcher's 1M Twitter followers. Dumenco, Simon; Dumenco, Simon., Advertising Age (0001-8899)" One article that specifically mentions Kutcher and Twitter in the abstract is "Ulanoff L. Facebook Challenges Twitter to Celebrity Deathmatch!. PC Magazine [serial online]. June 2009;28(6):1. Available from: Computers & Applied Sciences Complete, Ipswich, MA. Accessed June 18, 2012." This abstract says: "This article discusses how the social network Facebook is trying to encourage celebrities into using their website to connect with others. The author speculates that this effort is in direct response to rival social network Twitter. The press release available from Facebook on how celebrities and brands can transform their pages is discussed. Celebrities who use Twitter and Facebook include actor Ashton Kutcher and basketball player Shaquille O'Neal. It is suggested that despite the press release, Facebook is still more complex to use than Twitter." The following also mentions both together: The Twitter scorecard. Publishers Weekly. 256.20 (May 18, 2009) p4. Word Count: 182. From Literature Resource Center. The first sentence says: "Although everyone's still a little unsure of just how valuable a Twitter following is--does Ashton Kutcher really have more pull than CNN?--celebrities, news organizations and entertainment conglomerates are scrambling to get more followers on the social networking site. " Another article behind a pay wall is Wheaton K. Twitter no substitute for good ol' one-way communication. Advertising Age [serial online]. April 20, 2009;80(14):25. Available from: Communication & Mass Media Complete, Ipswich, MA. Accessed June 18, 2012.. Abstract is: "The article discusses actor Ashton Kutcher, and his race to become the first user of the social messaging tool Twitter to obtain one million followers. It is said that Kutcher's use of billboards and television appearances to advertise his Twitter stunt was contrary to the spirit of online social networking." Reading the articles about Kutcher and Twitter, they come from a popular culture studies or marketing discipline. The focus is not on Ashton himself, but rather the use of Twitter as a platform for communication and the effectiveness of Kutcher (and thus other celebrities like him) in tasks like fund raising, getting media attention, promoting causes and doing outreach. Without reading the current article, I'd expect this to be a major focus where Kutcher is almost the side story. (Which is the case for the Bieber article.) If the article is about Kutcher, it is doing it wrong. Hopefully, that answers your questions. (Please don't ask me to write about this academically. :) )--LauraHale (talk) 04:54, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • More comment on this. danah boyd is one of THE leaders in the field of social media research. (My supervisor has been urging me to cite Boyd more.) danah boyd wrote: 7.To See and Be Seen: Celebrity Practice on Twitter

Alice Marwick; danah boyd. Convergence: The International Journal of Research into New Media Technologies. May 2011. Vol.17,Iss.2;p.139 - 158. Source: SAGE Premier 2012. Kutcher's practices for use on Twitter were repeatedly cited in this paper and how it compares to others, in some cases explaining how this conceputalizes how Twitter itself is understood. Quote: "Responsiveness on Twitter is variable: while Ashton Kutcher may not write back to his fans, a fan will typically write back to him, and Ashton Kutcher will typically respond to other celebrities. This type of public recognition marks certain people as more important than others." And yeah, the existing article is pretty crap in that it focuses on Twitter metrics, with out contextualizing WHY this is encyclopediac. --LauraHale (talk) 05:10, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Quoting from the part on case studies: "This is perfectly acceptable when the two variables put together represent some culturally significant phenomenon or some otherwise notable interest." In the case of of Ashton Kutchet, it does represent that as the research done by academics and the mentions in several marketing related texts demonstrate. This doesn't hold true for say an article titled Anna Meares on Twitter where her Twitter usage doesn't pass WP:GNG and does not represent "some culturally significant phenomenon" because her use and place inside the Twitter hierarchy isn't particularly noteworthy. I think you'd be lucky to have maybe 20 accounts which would pass this threshold, as demonstrated by the Rhianna article being deleted. (And a deletion I fully supported. Nothing noteworthy about her usage and nothing that demonstrated "some culturally significant phenomenon".) --LauraHale (talk) 00:34, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question for Bensin: The main article being Twitter? Because of the focus on follower totals and the relative weight of these statistics towards understanding how Twitter works as a marketing and social tool? --LauraHale (talk) 01:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest that the "main article" be Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 02:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think the information on Kutcher would fit there? It would seem, unless scaled back to one or two sentences, it would be WP:UNDUE. The list also has a current US centric problem. Hugo Chavez's use of Twitter is not included, and he gave away a house to his I believe three-millionth follower. There is nothing in there about the South Australian Tourist board use of celebrities to promote Kangaroo Island, and this recieved a fair amount of Australian coverage. The article as it stands is awful and I think a good rewrite would end up removing him as there are many, many, many celebrities and politicians use Twitter. Can you please explain why you think Kutcher would be relevant? --LauraHale (talk) 04:15, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Answer to LauraHale: Thats a good question! Perhaps it's best to split the article and merge the parts into Ashton Kutcher, Twitter and Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians. Any description and important examples of how Twitter works as a marketing and social tool belongs in the article about Twitter. --Bensin (talk) 16:30, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anybody is questioning Twitters role in contemporary society, but that role is best described in the article about Twitter. --Bensin (talk) 16:30, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Up to what level? Although, if I didn't make it clear before, I'm more or less referring to celebrities like Kutcher (including Gaga, Bieber, Britney, etc) on Twitter. — Bill william comptonTalk 03:00, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is a common article for all celebrities on Wikipedia. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 17:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
woops, signature. Darryl from Mars (talk) 00:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This appears to be a misperception of the argument, which is that given the amount and wide nature of sources that discuss this individual's publications in the new medium, it is a notable and discreet topic by the wider world's standards and therefore by Wikipedia's. Outlets that popularize a new medium or have used it in a distinct way are often the subject of their own article (see eg., Nupedia (long defunct), SCOTUSblog (ongoing) etc., etc.) - Alanscottwalker (talk) 09:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia's standards for keeping an article does not require an academic article that would be accepted by a first-rate journal. Wikipedia's articles do not need to meet FA standards to be kept and the request for LauraHales' information and opinion about the sources and their significance towards an academic article that would be accepted by a first-rate journal is not a way to judge a basis for the separate notability of this subject. My own research turned up more than 240 news articles having Kutcher and Twitter in the title of the news article alone, more than enough to populate article topic subsections such as History, Twitter usage as a communication platform, Reaction, etc. and to provide strong evidence of separate WP:GNG notability of this topic. In a sense, this is a new type of article for Wikipedia. We have articles on newspapers, magazines, and other media communication outlets such as the Oprah Winfrey Network. In the "X on Twitter, Facebook, etc." article, you have a media communication outlet essentially run by one person (probably with the help of their team, publicists, lawyers, etc.), with content covering one person, where that single person media communication outlet is written about by numerous Wikipedia reliable sources (which makes it Wikipedia notable). Because of the newness of these types of article, there's no direct pattern of subsection headings in which to structure the article around, so initially we're going to get some articles longer than they should be and not as well structured as they should be (which is not a reason to delete). We should not crush these new type of Wikipedia articles; instead, we should let them develop and bring out a structured pattern based on a thorough survey of the relevant literature, which will include scholarly articles in the future per LauraHale. In advance of that, looking at the subsections for The New York Times and other media communication outlet articles may provide some guidance: History (straight forward and always a must in my book), Ownership (we assume it's one person but research focused on this would show it probably is a team effort), Content (probably not as important as it is for the New York Times), Usage as a communication platform (LauraHale's suggestion; the article largely should focus on this), Reaction (yes, this is important). There's probably are other subsections that would fit. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 08:59, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break 3 - Relisting, Part Deux[edit]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Tom Morris (talk) 23:22, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't that other article suggest this one would develop? Among other things, Kutcher has authored/published on Twitter use. See, [3]Has Bieber?Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is the most meaningless and ignorant comment I have ever seen in my entire life. Statυs (talk) 03:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The 'article' isn't about anything remotely encyclopaedic, end of story. Twitter is a website. Websites aren't new. Ashton Kutcher isn't notable for posting stuff on websites. 'Celebrities' posting stuff on websites isn't new. People claiming that something somebody they've heard of doing something they've heard of is 'notable' isn't new. Sadly, the inability of people to distinguish between temporary 'noticeability' and anything any of us will give a damn about in two years time isn't new either. If people want to find out about 'Ashton Kutcher on Twitter' they can read his Twitter postings - or the gutter press. This 'article' is vacuous bollocks, and not worth the effort involved in explaining why to people who can't tell the difference between hype and significance, or between 'ignorance' and an unwillingness to waste time arguing with airheads... AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:09, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Aha, Well, I suppose there's no pointing out the ill-tempered behavior of a self-labeled grump. Anyways, it may be worth pointing out to anyone looking over the discussion that, whether you or I or anyone will or will not give any damns in two years, that notability is not temporary when it comes to Wikipedia. An airhead like me knows that much. Darryl from Mars (talk) 09:05, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Laughing Nutter
Twitter sized summaries are required for twitter sized attention spans.
WP:WHATTHEF***DOWEWANTGARBAGELIKETHISINANENCTCLOPAEDIAFOR
is a vast improvement and outstandingly polite, note the ***'s
where page after page after page after page after page after page (wait, not too much reiteration, I sense a sudden slump in twit-readership) after page of reasoning has failed, using approachable hopefully memorable language to explain policy is f***ing brilliant. Penyulap ☏ 19:48, 2 Jul 2012 (UTC)
If personal editing history is important, I have no editing history to speak of with respect to popular culture; it doesn't particularly interest me. What does interest me is that it is fairly treated like any other subject, based on the application of the same standards we apply to any subject. Also, this article is actually a media and publishing article, as this by another user [4] commenting today discusses further. Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:25, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From wp:undue, "Keep in mind that, in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources, not its prevalence among Wikipedia editors or the general public." So while undue is not an article inclusion criteria, it similarly advises NOT following editor's personal approval or disapproval of what RS choose to cover per WP:BELONG, dosn't it? Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about the account or outlet, and is using third party reliable sources that cover the account. Isn't that how almost all Wikipedia articles are written? Alanscottwalker (talk) 11:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration break 4 - ?[edit]

If you're looking for reaction in books, it's there:[10], [11] Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:21, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These books neither improve quality of this article nor prove significant coverage on this topic. I added "mainly" to clarify. As I said, a book primarily about Ashton Kutcher's Twitter activities will have more value than a book's subject itself, and... it's not as if this conversation were Fahrenheit 451 here. Back on the sources, the books you listed do not have critical viewpoint on Kutcher and his Twittering ways. --George Ho (talk) 23:33, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We are at a deletion discussion where the policies are GNG, WEB and the other notability guidelines, yet when hundreds of reliable sources from respected outlets (discussing multiple facets of this topic) and books that actually use the topic as something the reader will readily grasp information from are mentioned and linked to -- the response is little more than WP:BELONG. Anyone who publishes educational books like those linked to, only uses such well known examples, because they indeed evoke a critical viewpoint of the topic. Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:45, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WP:Manual of Style applies here, as well. There is no guarantee that notability of this topic benefits or leads to a valuable stand-alone article. This topic could be notable, but... look at this article. It talks primary stuff that has been retold in non-primary sources, like a fictional recap. Can we leave notability out of this between us? After all talk about notability, I realize that any amount of notability does not equal to a valuable article. This article has no indication of value (notable or not), especially since this topic hasn't yet inspired reaction, like "Suicide(s) of..." and stuff. Even WP:BELONG is part of an essay and may or may not apply to what the article says right now and to how every argument can be neither right nor wrong but beneficial to consensus. --George Ho (talk) 00:58, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And you would replace notability with what, how some people may feel today? But leaving aside notability, what we can look to is whether a publisher's communications and his means of doing so can form the basis for an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia and every other encyclopedia has already answered that yes in spades. Wikipedia has a plethora of articles on individual blogs. In just the 11 citations already cited here throughout the above discussion, such an article can be written. Add to that hundreds more. Alanscottwalker (talk) 01:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not replacing notability; I'm leaving notability aside, as you were doing. To put this another way, this article talks growing statistics, which... I find... valuable probably... but insufficient amount of value. Moreover, it discusses the events that indirectly caused more attention on Twitter and Ashton Kutcher, which is already said in Ashton Kutcher. I'm not sure if mentioning Kutcher's first Twitter intro to Bieber is worth valuable or signifying, but... That's all I can say, as there aren't any other sources that explain impact on Bieber by this topic itself. You don't see "(person) on instant messaging" because specific (not general) people's instant messaging activities are... are they recorded in books and journals? You don't see Ashton Kutcher on instant messaging yet.... Wait a minute; is Twitter also instant messaging? Is blog another way of instant messaging? If Facebook is instant message, then maybe we can add Facebook and other stuff here, so this title would be renamed to "Ashton Kutcher on internet", right? Otherwise, this article would come down as unencyclopedic. --George Ho (talk) 01:29, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This publishers message and means is covered by the reliable sources extensively. Someone else? Some other means? -- that article, who knows? Information can always be added to improve any article. Alanscottwalker (talk) 01:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the publisher's message does in those reliable sources is a retelling of real-life events (i.e. a recap), as fiction has been retold by non-primary sources. Leaving sources aside, like fiction, this article should not be about only plot and background. There is no source yet about his creating an account and/or review of his account. This article said that he merely created it, posted messages in it, and caused attention by exploiting it. Suicide of Tyler Clementi have background and effects, but a person's profile is too low to have a separate "Tyler Clementi" article (well, it was separate but became "Suicide of..."). There was so much balance on background, court case, and reactions from directly and indirectly involved and uninvolved. Sam and Diane article may have been retold in articles of Cheers, Sam Malone, Diane Chambers, and Frasier Crane, but critical reception of Sam and Diane is not that mergeable to either of them. Account of the publisher was exploited for philantrophy that resulted growth of followers, but philantrophy and comment controversy are more valuable than growing stats and already told in Ashton Kutcher article. Account, on the other hand, requires such reaction about his accounts themselves. No analyst has covered on his article mainly yet, so we must wait... --George Ho (talk) 02:05, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is not fiction. This is communications, media, business, marketing, philanthropy, sociology, advertising -- all these non-fiction angles and more are covered in detail in the sources over a sustained period of years. Alanscottwalker (talk) 02:42, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You forgot one thing from WP:IINFO: "Similarly, articles on works of non-fiction, including documentaries, research books and papers, religious texts, and the like, should contain more than a recap or summary of the works' contents. Such articles should be expanded to have broader coverage." Account is the publisher's work, and account must inspire scolarly analysis and critical reviews. Get it? --George Ho (talk) 03:05, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They "should" and they are "expanded" because they exist -- an example in an educational marketing text or an article in the Washington Post business section is not going to be just a recap. Alanscottwalker (talk) 03:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
... Link, please? --George Ho (talk) 03:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The links are above. [1] through [11]; there are also links in the article and at the very top of this discussion.Alanscottwalker (talk) 03:27, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These sources either already explain information in Wiki-articles or do not have information that have worthy of inclusion, unless they are meant for Ashton Kutcher article. Look, there's nothing else you can find that's worth including or that's not already explained, okay? I checked the sources (1 to 11), and that's all I found. The upcoming Twitter-based sitcom... what happened to it? --George Ho (talk) 03:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know. The multiple reliable sources thought differently about this topic and that's what we base article inclusion on. Alanscottwalker (talk) 04:57, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
...Since these sources are reliable, can we put reliability of sources and notability of topic aside, so we must discuss article's current state of inclusion and exclusion, please? I guess this article has reliable sources, but I'm not sure if verified information is worth repeating in this article, especially since no primary analysis is published yet. --George Ho (talk) 05:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The wider world has this article topic, in its communications, media, business, marketing, philanthropy, sociology, advertising, etc. aspects, and the project seeks to serve the wider world. Alanscottwalker (talk) 10:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No matter how many times you comment George, your subjective belief is that "Ashton Kutcher is notable for one crappy show whose syndication broadcasting will die down, one lousy movie about a missing car, one relationship with Demi Moore." Luckily wikipedia was not built on such subjective beliefs.--Milowent • hasspoken 03:56, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Still I wonder: why do you think this article has some value that's repeated in Kutcher article? Did he create any other accounts that's newsworthy or something else, like chatting online (AOL, remember?), posting videos on YouTube, and any other? As I said before, maybe this article cannot limit itself to only Twitter account, especially if anybody doesn't publish analysis and thought elsewhere, like paper. Stats... well, not as much as general background about creation of his account... I don't know, but stats are not sufficiently valuable, even if valuable, to me. --George Ho (talk) 04:59, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" this article easily meets the GNG". Please explain why. This isn't a vote. It has always been Wikipedia policy that those who wish to include content have to justify it - and simply claiming without further evidence that 'it meets a policy requirement' isn't justification at all. Why should an online encyclopaedia have an article about the postings of someone not famous for posting stuff on websites on websites? Where are the sources that say this individuals postings are notable? What are they notable for? How do they differ from the postings of anyone else? Twitter, as a social/technological phenomenon is clearly notable, but why are the postings of this particular 'celebrity' of any lasting significance? Without a clearly-defined explanation of why this is anything other than random fancruft, or hype about another internet fad, there is nothing to support anything more than a passing mention in the bio of the individual concerned. AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm curious where that 'always' Wikipedia policy came from, it's not the trend I've read in them so far. Anyways, assuming he isn't in fact famous for it, which I can't easily say, that's fine, he need only be significant. Incidentally, no one (few poeple?) write sources about a subject and say explicitly 'we find the subject of this article we wrote notable per Wikipedia guidelines'. We find subjects notable based on the existence of independent sources that make note of them. In general, there are a number of verifiable things about this particular guy's use of Twitter that are and have been treated as distinct from that of a variety of other such individuals. I can mention a couple again if you like. Darryl from Mars (talk) 07:34, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've already mentioned WP:notability (web), and WP:GNG has been cited too many times. There is no MOS guideline about internet-related articles right now, so... I would like your examples, please? --George Ho (talk) 07:47, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ok, since you insist. Washington Post article about AK and twitter, Wired article, LA Times article. Three impeccable sources, all reliable, all almost entirely on subject, out of 42 on the page. Now, you could easily have looked at the article yourself, but presumably its easier to grump about it here. You mentioned "lasting significance" - there is no such requirement, sorry. You want sources that say these postings are notable - also not required - the fact that these twits appeared in reliable third-party sources (see above) indicates notability, and you should know this if you read the GNG.  The Steve  07:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Umm.... can we leave notability and verifiability out of this discussion? I did read WP:GNG and tried to explain that 1,000 news sources could count as one source, no matter what company or agency. If you have your own beliefs, then you may be right. Nevertheless, notability has no actual criteria; Wikipedia made and change rules about criteria of notability. Also, verifiability on one event or another may be met. That's why we're putting "notability" and "verifiability" aside to weigh in on article content itself by value and quality. Look at the article and another, and tell me if the topic itself is worth explaining further and keeping a fork article. --George Ho (talk) 07:59, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ummm, no, we cannot. I base my votes on wikipedia's inclusion policies and back those votes up, not on whether I think it should be here, or that its too trivial, or any other excuse. Hey, surprise! The news talks about trivial things. If they do it enough, we get an article! I completely disagree with your analysis, as news sources are our normal source of info. If you're suggesting a massive policy change that considers ALL news from EVERY paper, tv station etc, as a SINGLE SOURCE, I'm afraid you won't get much traction, AND you'll invalidate about 100,000 current articles which quote only news sources. Notability may not have "actual criteria", but the GNG explains that Significant Coverage (which I've shown) SHOWS Notability. Even aside from that, this Businessweek article shows the significance of AK's Twitter account in big business, investment, and startups. Clearly notable, by any standard.  The Steve  08:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
...All right, I'll rephrase on the 1,000-article part: primary events directly about this topic, such as statistics and messages, have been retold by non-primary sources. Retelling of all Twitter activities might count as one; impact by account might count as another. I got two. Review on account is the third. Unfortunately, a review on one or multiple postings... are not worthy of inclusion. For instance, why including a negative or positive opinion about Kutcher's competition with CNN to battle malaria? Should we include that? A book, which may inspire reviews, or a movie about Twitter and Ashton can tell a better narrative than this article. --George Ho (talk) 08:40, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There's now four distinct people in this little chain, so let's not attribute anything one person said to another. As to George, my personal favorite is still his diplomatic mission to Russia concerning social networking, that certain doesn't work for any random celeb on any random website. Moreover, not just being the first to have a million followers, but turning it into both a public event and a philanthropic platform seem, well, significant, if nothing else. In regards to the value of the article, understanding that we've put aside policy-based considerations for a moment, I can easily see someone interested in specifically the subject of him on Twitter, while not, to use Andy's terms, giving any damns at all about his filmography. Whether the best way to facilitate giving that person the information they want is a separate article or a subsection goes into a discussion of link navigation and search engines and the like, and is probably a discussion worth having on the article's talk-page in the future. Similarly, the article's quality is something for the editing process, and although I wouldn't exactly call it poor now, no doubt it could be improved. What I am confident about, looking at value and quality, is that deleting the article doesn't benefit much of anything. Darryl from Mars (talk) 08:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How does keeping the stand-alone article benefit anything, as well? --George Ho (talk) 08:40, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you mean as opposed to a merge? Wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened, but it risks turning interesting information into a factoid without context. Although maybe you're asking me something else? Darryl from Mars (talk) 09:48, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete.  Sandstein  05:16, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My Little Pony terminology[edit]

My Little Pony terminology (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Excessive detail that is not needed for Wikipedia. The sort of page that you'd see on a fan wiki. The plot, characters, setting and other sections of individual pages are more than enough to explain these terms. Thus the page is not needed. Harizotoh9 (talk) 18:38, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. BencherliteTalk 08:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Abraham Lincoln vs. Zombies[edit]

Abraham Lincoln vs. Zombies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Non-notable new film. Orange Mike | Talk 23:11, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  17:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hoodkid[edit]

Hoodkid (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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The subject doesn't meet WP: A7. I googled this up and found no reliable sources. This is probably original research about a non-notable figure. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 21:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment. I think that this guy probably doesn't meet our notability and/or verifiability standards (and the comment on the Talk page about this being pure OR makes me wonder if it couldn't have been speedied, somehow). With that said, though, this has been a huge problem with West African popular music on Wikipedia for years (I've discussed it with others at least as far back as 2006) -- some of it is fairly well documented, but almost always just by blogs, social media pages, podcasts, and other sources that we couldn't possibly regard as reliable. So we end up just not covering popular West African music because nobody's discussing it in print. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any elegant solution to this situation. Heather (talk) 16:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I AFDed it before the comment was posted. He said that the information is all true because he personally interviewed Hoodkid. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 18:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep (nomination withdrawn). The nominator withdrew their nomination, and no !votes to delete were posted (other than the nomination). (Non-administrator closure.) Northamerica1000(talk) 16:17, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeshivat Ohr Yerushalayim[edit]

Yeshivat Ohr Yerushalayim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Tagged for "no references" since June 2009. Unable to find secondary coverage in news or book sources for this one-year post-high school yeshiva for Americans in Israel. The rosh yeshiva is the editor of Jewish Thought, a periodical produced by the Orthodox Union, so he probably deserves his own page. Yoninah (talk) 21:19, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Walnut Creek, California#Education. WP:OUTCOMES; clear result, no need to string things out. The Bushranger One ping only 22:08, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Walnut Creek Intermediate[edit]

Walnut Creek Intermediate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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nonnotable middle school, no redirect as the school district only contains primary/middle schools, no high schools. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 20:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Walnut Creek, California#Education. WP:OUTCOMES; clear result, no need to string things out. The Bushranger One ping only 22:09, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Murwood Elementary School[edit]

Murwood Elementary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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elementary school in a school district which has no secondary schools, so no redirect is possible. delete per policy on nonnotable primary schools. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 20:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was WITHDRAWN by nominator. I was wrong! —JmaJeremyTALKCONTRIBS 00:51, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammad Reza Khanzadeh[edit]

Mohammad Reza Khanzadeh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Article appears to be about a non-notable athlete per WP:NFOOTY. Sources cited are unreliable.

—JmaJeremyTALKCONTRIBS 20:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Superstar Foundation[edit]

Superstar Foundation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Fails WP:ORG. Almost no significant coverage in secondary sources based on an archive search of Google News. Most comes from primary sources, press releases, etc. Bbb23 (talk) 18:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I did various searches and could not find any reliable sources giving non trivial coverage to this group. I found one local paper (and for whole articles really need some national coverage at least) that mentioned the group giving an award to someone, but the article was primarily all about that person and not this group. Other hits are to press releases, either directly or on sites that reproduce them with no editorial changes/investigation. The article Social Solutions has similar problems, being another article created by SPA newbies with clear COIs promoting groups formed by Steve Butz.DreamGuy (talk) 20:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete under criterion G3 as a blatant hoax. —C.Fred (talk) 18:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Moses the Coach[edit]

Moses the Coach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Complete WP:Crystal - can't even find any google hits for it NtheP (talk) 18:29, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Opinions are roughly divided between those who consider this original research by synthesis, and those who want to keep it because they disagree or consider that it is a notable topic and just needs rewriting.  Sandstein  05:20, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Biology and political orientation[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Biology and political orientation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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The article needs a complete re-write to be even encyclopedic. It currently is a synthesis (WP:SYNTH) of primary studies and relies on media reports from fox news etc covering the studies rather than secondary sources from the peer reviewed literature for weight (WP:FRINGE, WP:SCHOLARSHIP). It often fails to actually cite the studies and instead cites newspaper who are nowhere near reliable enough for the text (WP:NOTNEWS). The article appears even worse than after the last AfD. The last closer noted that the article was a poorly-written melange of primary sources and news coverage, this is still the case. It also synthesis other vague related topics into the article such as how attractiveness influences voters. and whether conservatives are more attractive (based on an online poll of all things).

In summary, the article relies on a synthesis of news reports and primary studies and would require a rewrite to be encyclopaedic as it is unsalvageable. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:07, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The article cites many peer-reviewed studies including secondary reviews. It is a rapidly growing research topic. The many newspaper reports establish the notability. Furtermore, arguing that the article could be improved is not a reason for deletion. Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:11, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've misread me, I am saying it can't be improved. IRWolfie- (talk) 18:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:18, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Who said it was? No one mentioned original research, re-read what I said. The article is an original synthesis of primary studies and newspaper reports. Look at the content, to be anything close to encyclopaedic it would need a complete re-write. IRWolfie- (talk) 19:35, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Again, there are secondary sources. Newspapers are used as sources in numerous Wikipedia articles and establish notability. There are no arguments introduced that are not in the sources so there is no synthesis. If you think the contents should be improved, then it would be better to edit the article in order to do so, not delete it completely. Academica Orientalis (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, what we have is newspapers reporting on single studies being stitched together into a complete article. It is the combination of these studies together into the article that is the original synthesis. It also violates WP:FRINGE as well. Newspapers aren't reliable for new claims in biology like this, particularly not ones based off speculation on new and potentially controversial studies. IRWolfie- (talk) 19:48, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
None of these are reasons for deletions. No new arguments not in the sources are introduced. Newspapers establish notability and can give details not in the studies by interviewing researchers as is the case here. The exact studies cited by the newspapers can certainly be added to the article if needed. WP:FRINGE states that "mainstream newspapers" are reliable sources and allowed although peer-review is obviously preferred. The article also has secondary peer-reviewed sources. In short, your are arguing for improvement, not deletion. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Why not? What is wrong with for example secondary peer-reviewed sources? Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:18, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't any.
To clarify how I read the nominator's reasoning; it's a synthesis of primary sources and press releases about those sources, with no secondary commentary. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is incorrect. Here is one secondary peer-reviewed source widely cited in the article: [23]. There are also newspaper articles but no press releases. Newspaper articles are reliable sources and establish notability. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That source says Original Paper at the top, it's not a secondary review paper. The newspaper articles are not reliable for what they are being used for in the article. IRWolfie- (talk) 20:30, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A newspaper article doesn't have to say "press release" to be a press release. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Secondary reviews can of course be "original papers". If you read it there is no new research but just a summary of prior research. The newspapers are reliable for establishing notability. They are also critical, ask other researchers, and are not "press releases". If the actual studies are needed they can be easily be added to the article. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Anything concrete you are objecting too as incorrect? If the article contents should simply be improved, then please cooperate doing that.Academica Orientalis (talk) 21:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No it is not my job to teach you how to write a balanced article. And even if it were I tried for a long time to no avail. You should either rethink your editing to the point where you at least make an effort to find and include literature that doesn't support your own view or you shouldn't be editing these articles at all. I would like to assume that you edit in good faith and that you are simply not aware that the narrow body of literature you happen to consistently choose whenever you write an article related to the nature/nurture debate is not representative of the entire field. But given that for the last three years I and a significant number of other editors have been telling you this, I cannot assume good faith anymore. You know very well that your articles present a tendentious view and you are seemingly very happy to sit back and make others make the hard work of bringing them up to scratch. I am not playing that game. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:50, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Too bad you do not have any concrete examples. That could have improved the article if there are problems as you claim. Academica Orientalis (talk) 21:58, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are almost funny. But not quite.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To Academica Orientalis: Anything you can point to as being a reliable secondary source? — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Already pointed out this peer-reviewed secondary review article which is referenced multiple times in the article: [24]. Academica Orientalis (talk) 22:28, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Contrary to what Academica suggests I have posted the titles of a few on the talkpage. The point is that I shouldn't have to do that. He should have done a broad literature search when he started writing the article instead of building it as a showcase for a single article he happens to like. Obviously the best sources would be review articles in social and political psychology, and in behavioural genetics. The handbook of social psychology mentions the Alford study an suggests that it was notable as sparking the field of genetic/politics studies, and then goes on to criticize the methdology it used. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
First, I have not created the article. I have added secondary review sources. Newspapers are reliable sources in Wikipedia. They can show notability and some things not stated in papers such as in interviews with researchers. I have not denied that you added some criticisms to the talk page and to the article. But if you do not state concretely what you think is further problematic, then your argued concerns cannot be addressed. Disagreeing with some of the contents is not a reason for removing all of the contents of the article. That seems more like disliking this research field in general rather than scientific arguments regarding the findings in the field. Academica Orientalis (talk) 22:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are the main contributer to the article. You have added onesided sources and written a lopsided one eyed article strongly biased in favor of the same viewpoint you have continously pushed iver the past many years. If I was motivated by my "dislike of the the research field" I would vote delete. I have no problem with wikipedia having articles about topics I don't find palatable - but I do have a problem with articles deliberately designed to mislead readers by showing them only a particular part of the topic.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Again, claiming an article has problems with the contents is not a reason for deleting the article. That is a reason for improving the article. If you think the article is POV, then you should cooperate improving it, not just simply delete it.Academica Orientalis (talk) 23:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OMFG, what is wrong with you? I AM NOT VOTING DELETE FOR THE FOURTH FUCKING TIME! The article needs to be rewritten by someone who is not you. That is what I am voting. And I have done who ever will have to rewrite it a huge fucking favor by spending an hour and a half supplying a shitload of sources. on the talkpage.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:22, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Removing all the contents is not dissimilar and the same arguments against apply. Academica Orientalis (talk) 23:31, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Then if you had read either the talkpage or the rest of the discussion you would have been surprised.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:36, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, I just read the article and looked at the cited papers, not the above discussion. But if you say that there are such papers I believe you. Please do include them in any planned rewrite if you plan to participate in a rewrite. I look forward to reading it. But this page is only for discussing whether articles should be deleted or not deleted, and so if you want the article to survive in a different form, this is not the right place to discuss anything short of total deletion. Chrisrus (talk) 00:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually no, something short of total deletion can be discussed. Two examples: redirect and merge. IRWolfie- (talk) 09:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, what do you want to do? More to the point, what do you want me to do? I thought you wanted an up/down on deletion from us.
You want to "stubbify" it? What does that mean in this context? What exactly do you want to leave behind?
It's got some good WP:RSes. Are you asking that they be more objectively described? Go ahead. All that sounds like an "article improvement" discussion, which are supposed to take place on the article's talk page, right? So why are we here?
You mention "merge", just as an example, what with? Do we have another article about research into the a biological basis for general tendency towards certain types of worldview? The article left this reader wanting so much more, but not less. Liberalism as a Mental Disorder came to mind. Think of those who tend to go with the crowd vs. boat-rockers. Where do headaches come from, when the topic turns to anything controvertial in some people but not others? Those who can't shake beliefs that nature is not to be violated, vs. a thing to be conquered; I could go on all night. I'd love to merge with lots of stuff. What do you think of this: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/273/1602/2749.short? Take your offence that it describes your particular slant as a brain condition and use it to find the same type of thing but this time about them. Chrisrus (talk) 05:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Listen to this, you'll enjoy it: http://www.radiolab.org/2009/sep/07/ Specifically, you can skip to 00:23:23, and another at 00:48:18throught to the end and let me know if that's not the damnedest thing that just might be true that you've ever heard in your life. Chrisrus (talk) 05:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter if there isn't another article like it, I suggest interested wikipedians can create a more encyclopedic version of the article post-AfD that actually aligns with secondary sources. There is nothing here to prevent that. IRWolfie- (talk) 13:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Again, that an article could possibly be improved is not a reason for removing almost all of the contents but for improvement. The newspaper articles are not press releases. Academica Orientalis (talk) 00:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did not say they were press releases: I wrote press reports. Why suggest your own faulty misreading? But, returning to the point about sourcing and how the article is written at present, I can see no way of salvaging paragraphs such as, "Kanazawa argued that general intelligence developed in order to help solve evolutionarily new problems while for evolutionarily recurring problems there were more specific instincts proscribing how to behave. Those having higher general intelligence are furthermore argued to be relatively more likely than those with lower general intelligence to ignore and act contrary to instinctual responses. To be more altruistic towards those being more genetically similar and acquaintances than towards strangers as well as being religious (see also Evolutionary psychology of religion) are argued to be evolutionarily based instincts. Higher support for social welfare for strangers as well as atheism are therefore argued to be more relatively more common among those with higher intelligence." Maunus has produced what seem like good sources on the talk page of the article. What needs to be done is for someone to read them, to absorb them and then summarize them in intelligible English, without giving undue weight to controversial theories which have not been accepted. Mathsci (talk) 00:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Disagreeing with a few sentences is not a reason for removing almost all of whole article contents. Neither is the existence of sources claimed without concrete examples to contain opposing views. If there are opposing views they should of course be added. Academica Orientalis (talk) 00:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That was just one example. It seems fairly typical of the parts which you have added to the article. Controversial sources presented uncritically and in a barely decipherable form. The heritability section has similar problems. Completely different sources have to be used when writing articles like this, so not much seems salvageable. Gathering the sources is the first step in writing any article properly. Mathsci (talk) 00:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand you are arguing that the article is POV. Possibly, but that is not a reason for removing almost all the contents. If you have concrete, sourced examples of what arguments are missing I would be happy to add these arguments. Although I of course hope you will do so yourself so the article can be NPOV.Academica Orientalis (talk) 01:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is certainly a precedent for stubbifying your non-neutral articles as was done with Race and crime.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Does not actually address the issues I raised above. If you have any concrete examples of missing arguments needed for POV then please state them. Considering that you have admitted not reading sources you claim show POV problems one may wonder what your arguments are based on: [25]. Academica Orientalis (talk) 02:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is correct I didn't read those sources for that article. But then again neither did you. But why do you bring that article here, are you proposing it for deletion?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 02:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't accuse other editors of being tendentious, it can be inflammatory (see the essay WP:AOTE). Examples were given above, for example the heritability section. A controversial study using controversial (obsolete) methods and a newspaper press release are the main sources for the entire section. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is false. There is a peer-reviewed secondary reviews source. It also mentions the study that you dislike. The NYT article is not a press release. Heritability is by no means dead, see this review article in Nature Reviews Genetics: [26] Academica Orientalis (talk) 15:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The results of the study showed that conservatives had a larger amygdala,[10] a structure of the brain associated with greater sensitivity to fear and disgust emotional learning." WTF??? Is this "new age" grammar? Are "fear and disgust" nouns, or verbs? Is this seriously the best you can do? Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 14:32, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are arguing that this error is a reason for deleting the whole article? I see no cartoonish face and disagreeing with an image is hardly reason for deletion of all other contents. Academica Orientalis (talk) 15:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, I am arguing that the whole article ought to be deleted because it is very much like a case of an Emperor that is wearing no clothes, and I'm not afraid to say so. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 15:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While I think the topic is notable and if written without the major issues I would support a keep, I think suggesting that the article (C rated) in it's current state has no actual issues is plainly absurd (what happened to Article rescue squadron actually trying to fix articles as the basis for keep). I suggest the closer have a look at the article to see the issues that have been mentioned by the delete/stubify votes. IRWolfie- (talk) 09:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
AFD is not cleanup. Any issues in the article should be discussed on its talk page and dealt with. Dream Focus 11:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Oh, and in Italy, for example, liberals are conservatives. —MistyMorn (talk) 11:22, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not an original topic, see the recent special issue of Political Psychology titled "Political Psychology of Biology, Genetics, and Behavior", but yes it is a horrific mess of inappropriate synthesis, weight issues and unreliable sources. There is a conspicuous absence in the article of any discussion on the interplay between the environment and biology (c.f. this article with the introductory review in the aforementioned special issue) which might betray POV issues, as well as a lack of any discussion on the considerable inferential issues associated with this subject (e.g. as in Aue et al. 2009 or Theodoridis & Nelson 2012). --92.4.177.142 (talk) 21:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is the type of article which should be kept, even if it needs considerable re-writing for improvement. Re-writing rather than deletion would be the appropriate action here. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 18:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that re-writing would need to start from scratch. There is nothing worth keeping in the article. IRWolfie- (talk) 22:49, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have commented on the 28 May 2012 issue of Political Psychology below. TFD (talk) 18:55, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
SYNTH is a content concern, and should never really show up at AfD at all. There is no such thing as synthesis of sentences to make an article, or synthesis of ideas to make an article topic. SYNTH is, loosely speaking, a rule to prevent reasoning by WP editors (yes, that is potentially ironic), because they might fall foul of logical fallacies. The only circumstance WP:SYNTH addresses is statements that are potentially erroneous because they rely on an interpretation of the implication of two sources. There are no such statements in this article; each statement in this article is linked to a source, which directly verifies the statement. That is all that is required to avoid SYNTH, ever. If individual statements do not fit into the article's scope, that is for editors to decide on the article talk page. An article's scope (the article name) is what we are deciding here at AfD, and it is judged on its merits, not the merit of the content supporting it. To be fair, there was some, I guess you could call it Sourced Original Research in the article, extrapolating facts directly from what was claimed by a single source, but that is not SYNTH either. There was also a passage with "voice" issues, where the statements made by the studies were stated directly, rather than pointing out that they came from a study. That also has been rectified.
Now I understand that there are some practical considerations (I call them cop-outs, but that's just me, apparently), such as, everyone is sick to death of how Talk page and RFC discussions never get anywhere or never get anyone to show up, respectively. But I must contradict unequivocally, the assertions that the article content as it stands is worthless.
There is a huge disconnect between the opinions voiced here by Delete voters and the state of the article; too much to be merely variances in opinion. To be fair, there is some bowing and scraping before the supposed magnificence of its interestingness by Keep voters as well. I would love for all of the studies to be as well referenced as the Ryota Kanai study has become since the last AfD, but that is not possible, yet. The article has improved greatly, and will come into its own in due course, whether it is deleted this time or not. The studies will continue, with the same focus, and more and more content will be available for it. Hopefully it will one day be possible to split it into MRI scan, Genetic, and Behavioural/Functional sub-articles.
There is a small issue that may need to be addressed at some point, although at the moment it does not threaten the article or even these proceedings very much, only Acadēmica Orientālis' peace of mind. As can be seen in this AfD alone, Maumus cannot restrain himself from making personal attacks against AO, with IRWolfie tag-teaming to a lesser extent, and Fifelfoo to a lesser extent again. Both sides are at fault, but I am concerned that AO will be blocked for adding content similar to what I removed from the article. There is no need to sanction those who added that material, or AO, but failing that, the sanctions should at least be balanced. This has gone on in various fora; the Talk page, the Wikipedia:Reliable sources noticeboard#Biology and political orientation, and WP:ANI#User:Acadēmica Orientālis/formerly Miradre (Fifelfoo absent from the final forum). Anarchangel (talk) 05:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
On the first point, "There is no such thing as synthesis of sentences to make an article, or synthesis of ideas to make an article topic.": actually synthesis of disparate topics into a single articles without a reliable source making the connections is a reason for deletion (and has been used as an argument in AfD successfully). If there is a novel combination (or synthesis) of topics, then it is done through original thought and is non-encyclopedic. IRWolfie- (talk) 11:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Reason for deletion where? Not WP:DEL#REASON. Lots of things are used as arguments in AfD successfully. Some of them are in WP:ATA. The word "topics" occurs nowhere in WP:SYNTH. Anarchangel (talk) 12:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As summed up by Jimbo himself in the recent past [27] on the topic of novel combinations of topics (not this article in particular):
This is a classic type of article that I have seen many times in the past, in which someone has a new idea to lump together a bunch of related things under a new name, and tries to justify the existence of the article by noting all the valid references to the underlying related things. The problem is often that to a casual reviewer, the sourcing looks good.
IRWolfie- (talk) 13:47, 28 June 2012 (UTC) (removed the strong delete part IRWolfie- (talk) 14:48, 28 June 2012 (UTC))[reply]
You are quoting someone out of context, they commenting on a totally different article. What does that have to do with things here? Dream Focus 14:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am showing that voting delete based on the argument that it is an article which is made by grouping separate topics together in a fashion not done in reliable sources, is a valid one to make. (Anarchangel stated that it wasn't) IRWolfie- (talk) 14:29, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dream_Focus posted this at Jimbo's page, note that my comment was not meant to imply that Jimbo had commented on this particular AfD, I never suggested that, see [28] (currently open here: User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Jimbo_Wales.2C_you_are_quoted_out_of_context_in_an_AFD.). IRWolfie- (talk) 14:48, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Samuel: Yeah, that's what I meant by 'flavor of the week'... The scope of an article with the title 'Biology and political orientation' ought not be restricted to new-fangled, recent stuff. "Scientists" have been making failed attempts to link the two (at the behest of those govts who pay them) for an embarassingly long time, all of which have eventually come to naught. (See physiognomy) One of the most successful was Freud's theory, that how your parents potty train you determines how liberal you will be. Surely that falls under the scope of 'Biology and political orientation'. Then it should also mention that the Nazi doctors certainly did a lot of theorizing in that same regard, as they found it of particular interest to their ends. Etc., etc., etc. So, all this crapola is really nothing new - but the current article's incarnation reads only like an advertisement for the latest babble, and so ought to be outright deleted. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:40, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The best theory came from W. S. Gilbert (1882): "Nature always does contrive, That every boy and every gal That's born into the world alive Is either a little Liberal Or else a little Conservative". SamuelTheGhost (talk) 11:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder what WSG would have made of Mrs T, who saw herself as being a Conservative in the Liberal tradition of Gladstone. —MistyMorn (talk) 18:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How very fortunate for those who know so much better than any scientific literature, past present or future, what observations are meaningful and which are not. It must make voting on these sorts of things so easy for you. Wnt (talk) 18:19, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
MistyMorn claims that peer reviewed science articles do not have a "critical filter", a critique which has no basis in WP guidelines. Even if I give the benefit of playing devil's advocate, this is old ground, covered above by Academia Orientalis, and at the previous AfD. If only news articles (establishing notability) are used, it is claimed that they lack sufficient peer review or lack scientific credibility. If only primary sources (peer reviewed with scientific credibility) are used, it is claimed they do not show notability. That is why there are both types of sources in the article. It would be fair to say that I have gotten so used to the goalposts being moved, that I have learned to score on the rebound. Anarchangel (talk) 12:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So as to respect WP:CIVIL, I'm keeping out of this kind of tendentious "no basis in WP guidelines", verifiability, not truth kind of argument, which I find intellectually insulting. Suffice it to say, that as an experienced peer reviewer myself, I feel more comfortable where the WP:MEDRS content guideline can be applied to protect Wikipedia from nonsense such as this] and much more. I honestly don't know whether the page should be deleted, stubified, or what. My knowledge of Wikipedia guidelines and policies is too limited to hazard a view. What I will say is that, in its current form, I find this page painfully embarrassing... Starting from the deliberately eyecatching, but encyclopedically absurd illustrations at the top. —MistyMorn (talk) 12:29, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are correct! The article, such as it is, depends on its own interpretation of primary sources; a fatal flaw. Binksternet (talk) 14:34, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is a kind of synthesis that is required for writing an article uincorporating more than one source - we can hardly expect all sources to state "This article treats the same topic as articles x, y & z"·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:38, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As Maunus [29] and TFD [30] both rightly point out, much of the content has nothing directly to do with Biology and political orientation. —MistyMorn (talk) 16:01, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, not exactly. We (Wikipedians) do need to synthesize topics, but:
  1. Most (all?) of the disparate papers are not on this topic, and
  2. There is little evidence that this topic (Biology and political orientation) is a notable one on which something can be said.
— Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:13, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a brand new field, see eg. "Review article: biopolitics after three decades - a balance sheet" published in 1998, or this book published in 2001, "Biology and Political Science". On a side note, we appear to have another article, Biopolitics, on the same subject (although the definitions section is unrelated). --92.4.177.142 (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The artile Biopolitics treats a completely different topic - namely the concept developed by Michel Foucault.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, apart from the material in the definitions section it is the same subject. --92.4.177.142 (talk) 21:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Since the term "biopolitics" is not (as far as I know) a term commonly employed to refer to studies that set out to explore possible biological associations with individual political tendencies, maybe the scope of the Biopolitics page needs some rethinking? There currently seems to be something of a disconnect between sections. —MistyMorn (talk) 22:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Biopolitics as a term describing the use of biological methods in political science was not uncommon and predates Michel Foucault's usage, but appears to have fallen somewhat out of vogue as far as I can tell. Biopower covers Foucalt's usage and describes the history of the term as used elsewhere. --92.4.177.142 (talk) 22:35, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, you're right I was thinking of our article on Biopower (which is also terrible) - in any case the word biopolitics is definitely very commonly used for Foucault's concept. At least in my field that usage of "biopolitics" is the only one I know of.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps not so out of vogue after all. Alford's 2008 review of the field is titled "The New Empirical Biopolitics" [32] and there is a long standing series edited by Somit and Peterson called "Research in Biopolitics" that published its 10th volume this year [33]. --92.4.177.142 (talk) 04:13, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This paper gives some useful context about the use of the term: "The Competing Meanings of 'Biopolitics' in Political Science: Biological and Post-Modern Approaches to Politics". --92.4.177.142 (talk) 14:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi 92.4 FM. I suspect you may already have registered a Wikipedia account at some time, but you're posting good stuff here, imo. —MistyMorn (talk) 15:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC) [reply]
Response/clarification here --92.4.177.142 (talk) 16:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The anon has convinced me that there is already an article that should cover this topic called biopolitics, and that 'biopolitics' is a current and common field of discussion. And when we have two articles about the same thing, we're supposed to merge them. I am thus altering my vote above from "delete" to "merge and redirect". Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 15:16, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not quite sure how Wikipedia should approach the "two competing" usages of the term biopolitics, but I too am now reconsidering my !vote (and feel that something genuinely constructive may come out of this AfD...). —MistyMorn (talk) 15:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Essentially Michel Foucault's usage dominates, but biopolitics in the other context is also occasionally used. Active researchers don't really seem to have any particular convention in naming their field, biopolitics is a more historical usage. The paper I linked above suggests abandoning the term for these reasons (as well as possible Nazi connotations). --92.4.177.142 (talk) 16:55, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. It's a blizzard in here. The Bushranger One ping only 22:10, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Philippines–United Kingdom relations[edit]

Philippines–United Kingdom relations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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This is not required and is unlikely to be read Calu2000 (talk) 17:25, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for keeping. LibStar (talk) 13:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Please explain a little more what this means.  What is the line?  Thanks, Unscintillating (talk) 19:08, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The exclude/include line is WP:N --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's appearing to be a snow keep...
—Northamerica1000(talk) 15:02, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:28, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ooh La La (The Dirty Picture song)[edit]

Ooh La La (The Dirty Picture song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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not notable thus fails WP:NSONG - VivvtTalk 17:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: This is the 7th edit of User I.am.the.best0 (talk · contribs) on English Wikipedia and the user also shows similarities in editing to the blocked creator of this article User Fineuser (talk · contribs). §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 14:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed puppet. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 11:40, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Opinions about whether the sources suffice for notability are divided.  Sandstein  17:52, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Island Ink-Jet[edit]

Island Ink-Jet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Of the two sources that could be construed as reliable, neither offers significant non-trivial coverage of the subject. OhNoitsJamie Talk 16:36, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Regarding news coverage. Bear in mind that printer manufactures do not like the refill industry - it means less profit to them. The ink cartridge refill industry as a whole (including IIJ) has received very little news coverage which makes sense if you check the manufacturers financial statements and realize their most profitable divisions involve print consumables. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising with media outlets. The old saying "never bite the hand that feeds" comes to mind.

I respectfully submit that it is possible to achieve notoriety by the general community without the traditional "press coverage". Island Ink-Jet has refilled over 10 million cartridges to date which is impressive given we merely provide a service. It is ultimately the consumer that has chosen to refill and done so by bringing their cartridges to any of our locations (We wonder what would have happened if there had been substantial press coverage).

That said, there has been several nontrivial articles dealing with Island Ink-Jet however many are not preserved on the internet. In addition to the WSJ article cited, WSJ featured IIJ on the front page of the Business section on August 3rd, 2004. Island Ink-Jet was also featured on CTV's 6 o'clock evening news in 2005 (Pat Foran's consumer report segment) which discussed the refilling of ink cartridges and was shown nationwide within Canada. There have been several newspaper articles over the years but most are found in actual print rather than being searchable online. Island Ink-Jet has also been the recipient of numerous awards from chamber of commerce awards to consumers choice awards (Barrie Chamber of Commerce Green Award, Edmonton Consumers Choice award for #1 cartridge refiller, Canadian Office Products Association -COPA- award of excellence to name a few)- again none of which you would find by searching the internet as they are material things that are verifiable to anyone who contacts us and asks. Anyone interested in validating is welcome to contact Island Ink-Jet and request copies of articles that have appeared in print.

I am apalled by "Ohnoitsjamie"'s actions in nominating the Island Ink-Jet page for deletion. This is ultimately his retaliation in response to an update I placed on the "Ink Cartridge" page which he undid without any cause. I believe this is an abuse of power. As an expert within the industry I want to ensure the information is accurate and up to date. I removed a reference from an older PC World article an replaced it with a newer one. I also added information relating to how cartridges can be refilled. I was cognoscente that being an expert within the industry and being a member of IIJ could create a COI so I ensured the update was unbiased and neutral and it was certainly not promotional nor did it contain any external links. Wikipedia rules say use common sense and common sense would suggest that someone with a background in having refilled 10 million cartridges is probably an expert in the field - (even moreso than a PC world article writer who has never once refilled an ink cartridge). It's a shame when Wikipedia displays poor information as a result of a power tripping administrator like ohnoitsjamie.

We ask that common sense is used by other editors when reviewing this delete request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.112.26.83 (talk) 05:46, 25 June 2012 (UTC) — 174.112.26.83 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment Note that this is one of serveral WP:SPA accounts spamming ink-cartridge related pages over the last year or so; see also this blocked user and these IP edits from the same geographical area. OhNoitsJamie Talk 13:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We dispute the comment by Ohnoitsjamie. As an expert in the field and while I know there was the potential for COI, I updated information on certain pages which accurately reflects the topic in a neutral fashion, that is not promotional and contained no spam. Ohitsnotjamie has simply used his power to delete subject matter, block my account, claim I am spamming etc based on his limited knowledge of the subject matter and his assumption that anything we write is spam regardless of the content because "most people who update the Ink Cartridge entry are spammers".

Wikipedia is built upon the principle of collaboration and assuming that the efforts of others are in good faith. Wikipedia's guidelines go so far as to state "When you find a passage in an article that you find is biased or inaccurate, improve it if you can. If that is not easily possible, and you disagree with a point of view expressed in an article, don't just delete it. Rather, balance it with what you think is neutral." In stark contrast to these stated goals Ohitsnotjamie simply uses his power to delete content without expertise on the subject matter, without cause, without reviewing the content and based on an assumption that writers on the subject matter are spammers and should they protest, he blocks their account. I think common sense would suggest this is going overboard. Common sense would also suggest that Ohitsnotjamie has nominated this article for deletion as a pesonal vendetta against "this account" (as he portrays this account as that of a spammer) when in fact the reality is that it is he who blocked the account in the first place and as a direct consequence to our disagreeing with his removal of content without any just cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.112.26.83 (talk) 14:39, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Northamerica1000(talk) 17:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Being relatively new to wikipedia didn't know the best place to take up recurring issues. My apologies. Regarding articles, see note below.207.112.18.250 (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can understand why the IP is upset; an AfD nomination that is lazy deserves to be riduculed sometimes. This nomination statement is useless to me "Of the two sources that could be construed as reliable, neither offers significant non-trivial coverage of the subject." The current state of an article often has very little relation to its notability. I could go around nominating thousands of articles for deletion under that rationale, even when I knew the subject was clearly notable.--Milowent • hasspoken 14:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Come come now, this is such a standard rationale that it borders on being boilerplate. The argument presented is that the article is not notable, based on asserting that the sources supplied do not establish notability. While I'd never argue against going the extra mile in drafting a detailed nomination statement, simply doing the standard spiel can't possibly be grounds for ridicule and outrage. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 19:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This wasn't standard spiel. This was punishment for my other edits which were factually correct and which were deleted by the same individual. The most recent example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ink_cartridge&diff=499154861&oldid=498938678 All reliable articles dealing with the subject matter discuss the same companies in almost every news article available on the subject yet any attempt to add relevant information to wikipedia is met by a lazy delete because he considers something "rinky-dink" (as quoted below)207.112.18.250 (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
IT should be grounds for ridicule and outrage. It is lazy and pathetic and virtually spitting in the face of editors who work to write articles. If people looked at it that way, they would think harder before making such nominations. This nomination is ridiculous, this chain had hundreds of retail units throughout north america at its peak and much written about it. Shame, shame, shame.--Milowent • hasspoken 04:44, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not shamed and stand by the nom. It's a rinky-dink franchise that was written as an advertisement by an employee. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:09, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lyra Research considers the article's topic be one of four companies that (when combined) accounted for 62% of retail cartridge-refilling locations in North America in 2006... The deletion of content is akin to implying the industry doesn't exist. Give me a break! This is beyond ridicule.207.112.18.250 (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, if you combine this company with three other companies you get to 62% of the market? So what's this company's share of the market? By that math it could be 1%. It could be 0.1%, for that matter. What's the actual number? ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 03:21, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well according to Lyra Research there were 1103 total stores offering refill services in North America in 2005. According to Specialty Retail Report, Island Ink-Jet had 208 stores as of April 2005. So roughly 20% of the marketplace give or take.174.112.26.83 (talk) 04:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A business is notable if it is the "subject of significant coverage" in reliable sources, not "if its accomplishments get coverage." I am quoting WP:NCOMPANY. I'm not sure what you're quoting :). The relevant question is whether the coverage supplied of IIJ is "significant." There is definitely coverage, and it's definitely in reliable sources. I question its significance. This is, unfortunately, a wholly subjective area. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 19:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
None of those sources, except for the Comox Valley Echo (and I'll get to that in a moment), address the subject "directly." That's literally all I'm missing. All of the sourcing supplied is about the ink cartridge refill industry, and IIJ is mentioned (repeatedly -- that is, to be clear, I'm not intending to suggest that IIJ is mentioned in a list and then forgotten about) in the context of the industry. I have yet to see an article in a reliable source that is about the subject. ...except for the Comox Valley Echo piece, which confuses me. It's about an Island Inkjet that went out of business in 2009. It mentions another competing company called Island Ink-Jet and Toner. The subject of this article is still in business. As such, I have to conclude that the subject of the Comox Valley Echo piece is either an entirely separate company with the same name, or was some kind of distribution or manufacturing subsidiary of IIJ that shuttered. In either case, I don't see it as covering the subject of the article. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 03:21, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Huh! Okay, forget what I just wrote about the Comox Valley Echo piece. Parent company rescued from oblivion in 2009, apparently. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 03:38, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Comox Valley Echo piece does actually refer to a separate company however the subject of this article is the brand, not the company. The brand was owned by a company that not only ended up closing, but was also sued which resulted in courts awarding the brand to another owner hence two companies owing the brand at different times (note tonernews article from company's site). 174.112.26.83 (talk) 04:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I added the Echo cite. Yes, its the same brand/company. As is typical with these things, big money men come in when they see an opportunity and the founders end up elsewhere eventually. As a Canadian company, I am sure there are more articles not readily found because Canadian newspapers don't give away archived content for free. I added the Echo and one other cite after a 2 minute search.--Milowent • hasspoken 04:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Note that a selection of articles are found here: https:// www. islandinkjet .com/inthepress/ (You will have to put it together. It appears the admin also went so far as to block the site!)207.112.18.250 (talk) 21:17, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Has several links but they seem to be limited mentions, announcements and mostly trivial coverage. Even the WSJ mention is one among similar organizations. Either way they fail WP:CORPDEPTH. Wikipedia is NOT a "vehicle for advertising" for Equipment leasing company ltd.--Hu12 (talk) 03:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CORP does not include any provisions suggesting that "being a franchised business" equates to notability. OhNoitsJamie Talk 10:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Of course not, I'm talking about what overwhelmingly happens in practice. These articles are many, e.g., Cartridge World, and even rarely get nominated. This chain had 240 locations as of 2006[38], which is fairly large. I guess nobody wants to look for articles about the chain, but its not like they don't exist. They are myriad.--Milowent • hasspoken 13:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, lots of Americans still question whether Obama was born in the United States.--Milowent • hasspoken 16:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not a valid argument for inclusion.--Hu12 (talk) 16:39, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Merely adding in mass, a indiscriminate amount of search result links, does not establish this subject as notable for inclusion. I've gone through them and Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered.
-action-intell.com/2011/03/03/retail-cartridge-refiller-island-ink-jet-opens-e-commerce-website/
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: routine notices of the opening or closing of local branches, franchises, or shops - fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
-tonernews.com/message.aspx?vy=bb&id=22170
Anonymous "Forum Message" PR post with sales and contact info - Fails WP:RS, WP:V and WP:GNG
-highbeam.com/doc/1G1-125926333.html
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: routine notices of the opening or closing of local branches, franchises, or shops - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-highbeam.com/doc/1P2-11943643.html
About a franchise owner, does not establish notability, nor is notability inherited.- Fails WP:GNG
-highbeam.com/doc/1G1-157897207.html
About a franchise owner, does not establish notability, nor is notability inherited.- Fails WP:GNG
-articles.boston.com/2006-09-11/business/29242757_1_ink-cartridges-replacement-cartridges-cartridge-world
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111871321693558814-pE_pv5NrwRCx9T6hLKOonuGDgNc_20060613,00.html?mod=blogs
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-highbeam.com/doc/1G1-124345725.html
About a franchise owner, does not establish notability, nor is notability inherited - Fails WP:GNG
-highbeam.com/doc/1G1-129013774.html
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-highbeam.com/doc/1G1-111270185.html
no mention, behind a paywall looks to be a press kit - Fails WP:GNG
-specialtyretail.com/issue/2005/04/retailer-profiles/ink_refill_retail_franchise/
self-publicity, advertising, press kit interview, its not Independent of the subject.
-.canada.com/comoxvalleyecho/news/community/story.html?id=294a3e0a-f0a3-41b9-bd0e-3fce9901ef15
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: simple statements that a product line is being sold, changed, or discontinued, - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
  • Wikipedia is not a promotional medium. Self-promotion, paid material, and product placement are not valid routes to an encyclopedia article. Clearly Island Ink-Jet Fails Notability. --Hu12 (talk) 16:39, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
utter bullshit. you guys are idiots, i'm done with this discussion.--Milowent • hasspoken 16:40, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please see Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:No personal attacks. thanks--Hu12 (talk) 17:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I added another 10 or so sources and references including 2 new WSJ articles, research from Lyra Research, various newspaper articles that are non trivial, letters from government sources, commendations from city's. Note that some articles are retrieved from the archives on islandinkjet.com which has been blocked by wiki (and therefore the url cannot be added properly to reference materials)on the Island Ink-Jet page. I wasn't sure how to add these articles which are relevant to this discussion so I removed the https://www. from the url. Would appreciate it if an admin can update this properly as I don't know the process..174.112.26.83 (talk) 18:07, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fails Notability;
-seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/makeitcount/2002902393_keepyourmoney02.html
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-islandinkjet.com/images/inthepress/newwaytothinkofink.pdf
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-sptimes.com/2004/10/11/news_pf/Technology/Cost_of_ink_cartridge.shtml
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-islandinkjet.com/images/inthepress/fillitupwithcolorwallstreetjournal.jpg
Is merely trivial coverage, such as: routine notices of the opening or closing of local branches, franchises, or shops. Its also a duplicate of the WSJ already used - fails WP:CORPDEPTH
-bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2006/10/02/story3.html?page=all
About a franchise owner, does not establish notability, nor is notability inherited.- Fails WP:GNG
-ecotrust.ca/energy/refill-not-landfill-a-winning-slogan-island-ink-jet
Anonymous PR SEO blog post with hyperlink - Fails WP:RS, WP:V and WP:GNG
-islandinkjet.com/images/inthepress/EnvironmentAward2006Nomination.pdf
Not Independent of the subject; Chamber of Commerce Member Services start at $483 for class "A" all the way up to "k" which is $6783, this is paid marketing
-islandinkjet.com/images/inthepress/greenawardfrombarriechamberofcommerce.pdf
Not Independent of the subject; Greater Barrie Chamber of Commerce Member Services include Marketing
-.islandinkjet.com/images/inthepress/letterfrombarriempregreenaward.pdf
Not Independent of the subject; Greater Barrie Chamber of Commerce Member Services include Marketing
-islandinkjet.com/images/inthepress/congradulationson50thstorefromministeroftheenvironment.pdf
Seems to be a standard correspondence letter that goes out after registering substance(s) ie.(ink) with the Minister of the Environment (required). Trivial as corporate papers
I've gone through them and Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability.--Hu12 (talk) 00:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've examined three of the sources analyzed in the previous post, and in none of the three cases could I confirm the results.  The selection was not random, I selected three links that looked interesting.  sptimes.com/2004/10/11/news_pf/Technology/Cost_of_ink_cartridge.shtml is a dead link.  I also looked at http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/makeitcount/2002902393_keepyourmoney02.html, where the entire article is about the concept being marketed by "Island Ink-Jet", and the attention of readers is directed to three companies, one of which is "Island Ink-Jet".  IMO, the representation that this is "trivial coverage" is not guideline based.  A third sample was http://bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2006/10/02/story3.html?page=all, which provides direct in-depth prose that goes to WP:GNG notability.  The analysis was, "About a franchise owner, does not establish notability, nor is notability inherited.- Fails WP:GNG".  The first part is correct, there is discussion about a franchise owner.  The subsequent analysis fails to report that attention in the article is also given directly to the topic and that the attention given to the franchisee is also going, at least in part, to the topic.  This error by omission suggests that the analysis is not reliable.  Unscintillating (talk) 16:52, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. In the nwsource.com link above the only mention of Island Ink-Jet is as follows;
  • "...chains of refill shops have a total of 14 stores in the Puget Sound area: Cartridge World (www.cartridgeworldusa.com), Island Ink-Jet (www.islandinkjet.com) and Rapid Refill Ink (www.rapidrefillink.com). "
Fails the "Primary criteria" (WPCORPDEPTH) of WP:CORP which reads; "Acceptable sources under this criterion include all types of reliable sources except works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as: inclusion in lists of similar organizations", Which is entirely guideline based. the bizjournals.com link is about a frachise Mark Tremont, and there are only two mentions
  • "Island Ink Jet isn't the only company in the region to offer the recycling service. Another franchise, Cartridge World"
  • "resellers such as Island Ink Jet and Cartridge World"
Neither of these establish notability and is trivial and incidental coverage.- Fails the "Primary criteria" (WPCORPDEPTH) of WP:CORP and WP:GNG--Hu12 (talk) 21:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is the previous poster aware that there are a number of sources listed on this page?  I can relist them if needed.  Unscintillating (talk) 22:15, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well aware, however they also fail the "Primary criteria" (WPCORPDEPTH) of WP:CORP--Hu12 (talk) 02:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
But we are not talking about WP:CORP.  Is the object here to understand the support for my !vote, or is this an exercise in denial?  Unscintillating (talk) 02:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually we are talking about the specific inclusion guidelines of Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). Is the previous poster aware that Island Ink-Jet is not a musical group? --Hu12 (talk) 04:26, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not aware that music groups have any relevance to this discussion.  Is this a red herring argument?  Unscintillating (talk) 12:25, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What we are discussing is my !vote which is about "WP:GNG", which is the general notability guideline.  An assertion that my !vote was about WP:ORG rather than WP:GNG becomes evidence of a logical non-sequitur fallacy.  As per [[WP:N], "A topic is presumed to merit an article if it meets the general notability guideline..., and is not excluded under What Wikipedia is not."  Unscintillating (talk) 12:25, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No assertion made, I addressed your !vote in my first comment above. To clarify, the sources fail WP:GNG's "Significant coverage", put forth in the "Primary criteria" (WPCORPDEPTH) of WP:CORP. --Hu12 (talk) 22:28, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"No assertion made"?  "[W]e are talking about the specific inclusion guidelines of Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)", was that not an assertion in the context of my !vote?  Unscintillating (talk) 01:35, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no context of your !vote. "Obviously passes" is not a valid argument for inclusion. Obviously What? The sources fail WP:GNG's "Significant coverage", put forth in the "Primary criteria" (WPCORPDEPTH) of WP:CORP. How is that passing WP:GNG?--Hu12 (talk) 02:17, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was DELETE as content fork, per WP:SNOW. User:Agunter999 has been blocked as a purely disruptive account. postdlf (talk) 06:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wwii equipment[edit]

Wwii equipment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Appears to be a content fork of List of common World War II infantry weapons, with some information from other WWII-related lists, used by the article's creator to evade discussion at Talk:List of common World War II infantry weapons#Neutral countries. jfd34 (talk) 15:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]



Agunter999 (talk) 16:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Allan Akbar has also been involved in these edit wars so also be cautioned — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agunter999 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, I haven't been involved in an edit war with Agunter999. I took no part at all on 20 May and all I have done over the past couple of days is reverting his irrelevant additions on List of common World War II infantry weapons, without breaking the 3RR rule, and detecting and reverting Agunter999's signature forgery on Talk:List of common World War II infantry weapons. So don't try to put the blame on me. Allan Akbar (talk) 18:18, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Sources provided which demonstrate notability. (non-admin closure) MacMedtalkstalk 01:54, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Golf Punk[edit]

Golf Punk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Contested PROD, original rational was "Non-notable defunct magazine" which remains valid. GiantSnowman 15:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) →TSU tp* 03:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actuarial Society of South Africa HIV/AIDS Models[edit]

Actuarial Society of South Africa HIV/AIDS Models (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Not notable. The refs are all first party ones except for one press release and one that briefly mentions the models. Other than that no indication of notability. JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 15:24, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One should see the sources and citations for this article before proposing it for deleting, its properly cited this article should not be deleted as this is most important encyclopedic information for the world as ASSA AIDS MODELS has very important value in field medicine research on HIV / AIDS, its very notable and written according to Wikipedia Policies, I am agree on the point that content is less and may be citations are not proper however it can be improved, it should be keep as improved not for deletion of article because its notable, kindly share your views, Thanks. -- Faizan Munawar Varya chat contributions 15:35, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Note that I specifically pointed not to Google Search, but to Google Books and to coverage of this specific actuarial model. See for example [50] from that page for the use of the model in SA govt decision making. AllyD (talk) 07:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The fact that a joint task team of the National Department of Health and the Treasury used the ASSA model convinces me even more of its notability. George Custer's Sabre (talk) 07:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete. Already CSD'd by one editor and gthen deleted by another adlmin. Recreation of a previously CSD'd article under a slightly different nalme. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Joey shaw (photographer)[edit]

Joey shaw (photographer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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dePRODed without addressing the issues of references. Just adding more websites of people the subject might have photographed does not add notability. The subject needs to have done something creative that gets written about, and awards, for its own merits - and then proven with WP:Reliable Sources Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sources satisfy GNG. (non-admin closure) MacMedtalkstalk 02:10, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Cheng[edit]

Bobby Cheng (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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The achievements of this chess player are not high enough to be notable for an encyclopedia. SyG (talk) 14:07, 24 June 2012 (UTC) SyG (talk) 14:07, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Every year, "world champion" titles are awarded in under 18, U16, U14, U12, U10, and U8 categories; x2 for girls as well. All of them are local celebrities after they return home victorious and receive brief media attention. Do all of these kids then deserve a Wikipedia page as well? What's the cutoff for "a high level"? Sasata (talk) 21:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. The discussion indicates that the topic might be notable, but would need better sourcing.  Sandstein  05:28, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of "Umalatova" awards[edit]

List of "Umalatova" awards (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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There appears to be no article at ru for Умалатовой награды or even Умалатовa награды and a quick google search didn't find anything that looks particularly notable, although I accept my Russian isn't as good as it was 10 years ago. Looks NN. Spartaz Humbug! 10:15, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is an article about the Партия мира и единства, but nothing about the tsatski (correct word order is награды Умалатовой). But I've found a news about prohibition of this business: http://lenta.ru/russia/2002/04/17/umalatova/, so Keep. Ignatus (talk) 16:31, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's clearly not enough for a stand alone article, so this should be deleted and the subject covered at an article about the party. Spartaz Humbug! 20:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, yes. But it also seems that these (among other recent doubtfully legal Russian private "orders") well-made ones are object of collectioning [51], can we have list of them for such reason? E.g. as bones of some minor unrecognized governments of Civil war time. Ignatus (talk) 10:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If there is adequate reliable sourcing yes, but this isn't sourced enough for that. Spartaz Humbug! 14:15, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These awards are collectibles, there's no doubt about that. There are multiple threads on most phaleristics forums World wide dealing with them, on OMSA's and GMIC's web sites for example. They were originally included in the article Awards_and_decorations_of_the_Soviet_Union and later removed, the concensus being they didn't belong there. They remained on the article's talk page for quite a while, I created this list mostly in an effort to free the talk page. The political party no longer exists but these medals are very very present on the market. Personally, I have no objection to the article's deletion seeing these awards as fakes. But they are misleading to the beginning collector, this list serves as a warning "CAVEAT EMPTOR". For those not familiar with the term "Umalatova", it refers to Sazhi Umalatova, a Russian politician who pines for past Soviet glory. She was the chairwoman of the Party of Peace and Unity, they issued their own medals in the Soviet style until the practice was outlawed by the Russian government. Like I said, I have no objection to a deletion, as long as the decision taken is an informed one. Cheers. Fdutil (talk) 19:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. I don't see how this unsourced, hyper-technical, possibly-OR content could be usefully merged, sorry Bearian.  Sandstein  05:30, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Investigation of Nanoparticle from Sol-Gel Method[edit]

Design Nanoparticle from the Brown Motion Analysis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
The Investigation of Nanoparticle from Sol-Gel Method (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Hopeless technically complicated. The weird "opening statement" in italics indicates a probable WP:OR problem too, as evidenced by the lack of sources. Basalisk inspect damage⁄berate 11:50, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy deleted WP:CSD#G11 by Kusma. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 21:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Joining a server[edit]

Joining a server (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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How-to guide on how to join a game server on risingdead.com.br. Wikipedia is not a manual or guide. jfd34 (talk) 11:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Scott Thompson (author)[edit]

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Biography of an author with a single published work, which has received no attention outside of his hometown and a few small bloggers. Fails WP:AUTHOR and WP:GNG. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Minecraft Di Flash[edit]

Minecraft Di Flash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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I'm not actually sure whether this is a hoax, speculation, or just a very obscure future film. The only hit I get for "Minecraft Di Flash" is in a Punjabi film internet forum. No sources are given in the article, and even a search for "Jelly Manjitpuri Baljit Deo" is inconclusive. If the film is true and more sources are found, then the article can be recreated, but for now, if it's not speculation, it's just too soon. PROD was removed by the author. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:54, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Perhaps they wanted to try an exotic location? Many Indian films already have scenes shot abroad. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:11, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Consensus is that he currently fails the notability guideline, but without prejudice to being restored if//when he does meet the guidelines. Davewild (talk) 10:43, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Branimir Hrgota[edit]

Branimir Hrgota (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Player fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG Reckless182 (talk) 10:11, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In just 2-3 months this player will play for a german team in the top leage. And he has already won a couple of prizes in Sweden witch gives him some general notability. Just give it some time and it will meet the required notability --Divine time (talk) 11:28, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Not only is this WP:ENT but it's a BLP. As such, it's unsourced - forums do not count. The actor does to appear to meet the "notable roles" requirement (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Zaida Parveen[edit]

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Indian Hindi TV actress who doesn't pass WP:ENTERTAINER and WP:GNG. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 12:42, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Significant? §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 11:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, in Jyoti she is the mother of the main character, in Punar Vivah the same, in Yahan Main Ghar Ghar Kheli she is the main "antagonist". Cavarrone (talk) 11:17, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry! I don't find that significant. TV soap's lead actor's mom's roles!! Will let others comment on that. But this does fail GNG. All the references provided currently are from a fan-chat forum. Which are completely unacceptable. But i don't wanna waste my energy telling that for Hindi TV show related articles. It goes in vein. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 17:20, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yawn....WP:ENTERTAINER does not require you are the protagonist of a production, it requires you have SIGNIFICANT ROLES: being in the main cast of a tv-series means that your role is significant... otherwise you would be just a guest-star of the series for an episode or two... why do we lose time in discussing what is obvious? if you want to say she does not pass GNG you are free to do it, but saying she does not have significant roles in her career is just wasted time. Cavarrone (talk) 18:04, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Right to speech! §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 18:13, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Aa..Aa!! Not lead, lead's mom. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 14:17, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The references provided are from a ⇒Newsgroup⇐, and the pages that have been referenced are not created by fans, and neither are they chat threads - just keep that in mind. ∗∗Pearz25 (talk) 17:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
... and if you are considering this page for deletion because it has no references, I know other sites that beside India-Forums that can be used. ∗∗Pearz25 (talk) 18:02, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
QUOTE
"India-Forums.com is the # 1 Discussion Forums with more than 350,000 members currently (Nov, 2008) and was started in December 2003."
UNQUOTE
This is what the first line in About Us section of bold-inward-arrows-newsgroup reads. And you knowing other references doesnt help Wikipedia. If you know, add them. And read WP:Reliable Source before that. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 18:46, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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so this article is being deleted because it has no references? Rani P23 (talk) 16:25, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No! Because the subject is not notable. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 18:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Rocket Science (band). (non-admin closure) MacMedtalkstalk 02:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kit Warhurst[edit]

Kit Warhurst (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Non-notable member of a band. There are sources of him where he is being interviewed with his band etc. but no independent notability (such as activity outside of the bands) has been demonstrated. Thus fails WP:GNG, WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO. Till 09:24, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. There is no support for deletion here (apart from the nominator) and while there is support for merging there is a rough consensus that the article is sufficiently notable to be kept. This does not prejudice however a consensus on the article talk page later reaching a decision on a merge. Davewild (talk) 10:40, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

West Rome High School[edit]

West Rome High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Was dePRODED but still fails to address notiability issues. Article needs to be about a school, or about its sports people, either way it needs more substantial coverage by WP:RS Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:09, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Actually, it has been prodded twice.  Unscintillating (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
From my viewpoint, it is called factoring.  Why should we have two bundled articles, when they have almost nothing in common but ancestry?  How would you handle the geo-coordinates for the three schools?  I did a merge recently, a "WP:BIO1E" merge that the AfD volunteers called for, so that now at [53] we find that "Mantell UFO Incident" was a birth in 1922.  In general, IMO Wikipedia has a problem with not knowing the difference between a stub and a short article.  But like I said, if you want to do the work, that is ok with me.  Unscintillating (talk) 04:25, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merger could be discussed in the normal course of editing, outside this AfD. I'm not adamantly opposed to a merger, but it would have to be substantive, not just a token redirect. I disagree with the assertion that "There's little chance that the current stub will be expanded"; expansion has already started. There actually is quite a bit that could be written about this school, which sources show was notable for demonstrated academic and athletic achievements and for its role in Rome's segregation and desegregation. Given the substantial sources that exist not only for West Rome High but also for the current Rome High's other predecessors, including East Rome High and Main High, I suspect that the end result could be a rather long article, maybe not suitable to keep as one. In any event, discussing a merger of this type means a "keep" result for this AfD. --Arxiloxos (talk) 04:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, and yeah I agree that the content should be kept (and I have frequently stated so at WP:WPSCH and elsewhere). I'm not volunteering to do the merge, as I've still got Vaucluse High School and Rose Bay Secondary College to do, but perhaps Kudpung wants to do it. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 05:09, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly opposed to merge; still holds the (later tied) state record for four consecutive championships, unaddressed if total records (5) was or still is state record, and if it was, and later tied/exceeded, this school's closure prevented further accomplishments. It's four consecutive state titles were 59-1. While an achievement to include in our not-yet-available bio of Coach Nick Hyden, West Rome High School's 1968-1973 were at least 6 consective other winning seasons (63-12-3 84%), his first 6 seasons; he would later win 200th game in state-record 20 seasons [54], though mainly associated with Valdosta High School, retired after 28 seasons (winningest in Georgia history?) [55], and for whom FL/GA all-star game named.
If Rome High School later titles and 6th title makes/ties record, it will be with an asterisk* of it's West Rome heritage. Dru of Id (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 10:22, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gay Storm[edit]

Gay Storm (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Doesn't seem to be notable, created by a SPA.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 10:22, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Kast[edit]

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Subject doesn't appear to be notable per WP:BIO. Credentials, while they may be impressive on a resume, aren't referenced and aren't so notable as to set the subject apart from many other physicians. The single reference is not about Kast and only mentions him a couple times in passing. All GNews seem to be about other people named "Robert Kast". Dismas|(talk) 06:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 10:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Hudon[edit]

Charles Hudon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NHOCKEY. Not a first rounder in the recent draft. Contested PROD, removed under the mistake that the QMJHL counts towards criteria 3 (100 games played in minor professional league). The Q is a junior league, and doesn't count towards this criteria per long held consensus. Ravendrop 07:08, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails NHOCKEY. Can be re-created if he ever does. Patken4 (talk) 16:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:34, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Elxis[edit]

Elxis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Previously a Prod on the rationale "No evidence that this software meets the notability guidelines." Prod was removed by the article creator. There is a published Official Guide, but I found no reliable 3rd party sources that would establish notability, so I am bringing the article to AfD on the original rationale. (Note: there are also Engineering and Real Estate firms with similar names.) AllyD (talk) 06:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. A fine line between "keep" and "no consensus". The policy-based argument that this is a unique aircraft, and thus meets notability (and the associated Janes entry) moves me to Keep (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Atol (aircraft)[edit]

Atol (aircraft) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Originally nominated for speedy as G11, but declined. No notability for this one type of aircraft; the author de-proded after adding "reliable sources" from youtube, the manufacturer's website and a few databases etc. There aren't any other sources and so fails WP:GNG. Basalisk inspect damage⁄berate 10:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. This is unsourced, incomplete, and as noted would be better served as part of Davao City#Cityscape. However, as the entries are currently unsourced, no merge is possible. At some point, those entries (such as top 5) could be moved there. As it's so unsourced, delete becomes the de facto consensus (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:47, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of tallest buildings in Davao City[edit]

List of tallest buildings in Davao City (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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The list has no particularly tall buildings at all, so a question of notability is raised. Plus, another "Tall Buildings" list has been deleted for similar reasons: insufficient info, the city does not actually have "tall" buildings that warrant a separate article, etc. Xeltran (talk) 11:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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1. Why not have a list of Top 10, Top 50 or Top 100 building? Why only Top 20?
2. Why is this city only significant to have such an article as a separate case?
In future, users might go on creating such articles for each and every metro or town (as in case of Miami cited by user Narutolovehinata5) . Obviously, this is not very significant until unless the city has some very high sky scrappers that might list in World's Top 10 or so. VIVEK RAI :  Friend?  10:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Speedy deleted WP:CSD#A7 by Jimfbleak. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 09:42, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Illuminati of Atlanta[edit]

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I don't think that this branch is notable enough to have a individual Wikipedia page. If this isn't deleted, maybe we should merge it? Thekillerpenguin (talk) 05:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 20:35, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Robert M. Bakish[edit]

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Non-notable businessman. He's president/CEO of Viacom International Media Networks, which is a sub-division of Viacom. That's not the kind of position that would create automatic notability. There are insufficient third party sources to demonstrate standalone notability. GrapedApe (talk) 01:32, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

These sources seem to me to be adequate third party coverage in themselves. Yes, both Forbes and Bloomberg are getting their information from the same primary source, but they have both decided on editorial rules for who is included and who isn't (presumably some threshold investment size, although I admit I'm not familiar with their rules). And the section of prose on Bakish's personal history in each is different, suggesting each of them have done some research independently of the other, so we can't regarded them as a single duplicated source.
Dismissing these sources because the decision to include has been made based on fixed rules applied to a database of financial information also suggests we shouldn't include stuff like Forbes' Richest People list as a source, but we do. JulesH (talk) 17:35, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. The WP:N requires that the subject has "gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time." Being on the Forbes List of Richest people is significant attention. Being part of an SEC database that gets dumped into a Forbes "profile" without any actual authorship doesn't mean significant attention.--GrapedApe (talk) 21:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As per WP:GNG, "significant coverage" is that which is not trivial.  How much "significant coverage" amounts to "sufficiently significant attention" is not clear.  One metric is two "good" independent newspaper articles.  Unscintillating (talk) 21:30, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8). Deleted before redirecting. The Bushranger One ping only 20:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Merry[edit]

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Article about a band member who appeared on TV talent series, The X factor. He is clearly not notable outside of this contest. Sionk (talk) 12:49, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The band does not have its own article - and most of this article is taken straight from the X-Factor entry for the band. Nothing to show independent notability. noq (talk) 13:34, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 05:52, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

These Brittle Bones[edit]

These Brittle Bones (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Not notable. No notability asserted. No reliable refs. All refs are catalogue entries or twitter feeds. Highly advertising  Velella  Velella Talk   11:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Stifle (talk) 11:28, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ACE Adventure Resort[edit]

ACE Adventure Resort (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Insufficient links to show notability. The only serious claim to notability (that Truman once stayed in one of it's buildings) does not seem to be verifiable. It's a weak claim at best. On the whole, even after clean-up this article appears to be promotional in tone. Salimfadhley (talk) 13:08, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to JT Tran. The two first "keep" opinions advocate a merger, three other people recommend deletion as non-notable, and I'm discounting Josh769's opinion as it does not appear to offer any argument. The other opinions can be reconciled with a "redirect", this way anything that's worth retaining can be merged from the history, editorial consensus permitting.  Sandstein  18:00, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ABCs of Attraction[edit]

ABCs of Attraction (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Nomination of a page which appears to have little notability and appears to be have been created by sockpuppets to promote the company. Information on the company - which offers 'pick-up artist' tactics - seems to be based on promotional material.

Not only is the topic seemingly non-notable, but it also appears to exist only because of multiple editors (or sockpuppets) with obvious conflict of interest and should be deleted as per WP:SOAP

I am also nominating the following related page due its connection with the topic of this AfD and lack of notability, along with some being written in large part by some of the same group of editors/sockpuppets involved with this article

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Paxti (talk • contribs) 17:40, 5 June 2012‎ (UTC)[reply]

I cut back the main article significantly. I need to take a breather before looking at JT Tran. This is disturbing stuff. - Richfife (talk) 04:50, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 05:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agents of Secret Stuff (2010)[edit]

Agents of Secret Stuff (2010) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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I don't know why this has to be discussed yet again, the "film" still has not increased in notability. The author of this article has not established any sort of notability or importance, or included any reference to any of his or her claims. 117Avenue (talk) 03:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy deleted WP:CSD#G3 by Jimfbleak. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 09:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List Of Club Penguin Comedy Episodes[edit]

List Of Club Penguin Comedy Episodes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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WP:MADEUP much? Ironholds (talk) 02:19, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge to List of Barbie's friends and family. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 01:40, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kelly (Barbie)[edit]

Kelly (Barbie) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Do we really need an article for every Barbie doll? I think not. CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 01:58, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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No, hold the horses - if Stacie/Kelly are the same doll as they seem to be according to the Friends and Family page, and Crakkerjakk has argued compellingly for merging Stacie to Tutti and Todd (Barbie), then merge Kelly to that article too - especially if Kelly/Stacie are the same renamed doll. Mabalu (talk) 10:53, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There was a "Kelly" doll introduced in one gift set back in 1991 which was believed to fill the "Tutti" role, but the doll was re-named Stacie almost immediately and the "Kelly" name was instead used for a younger toddler-aged little sister of Barbie. Beginning in 2010, the name of this toddler-aged sister was changed to "Chelsea". I know it's confusing, but essentially (with the exception of one gift set in the early 1990s), Kelly was a different, younger sister than Stacie and, as of now, is no longer part of the Barbie family. Rationale for this confusing web of family friends among collectors appears to be the fact that Mattel has trademarked all of these various names, and simply recycles/reuses them, often for a completely different character, without any attempt to maintain continuity. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 18:40, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge to List of Barbie's friends and family. (non-admin closure) -- Trevj (talk) 10:14, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Krissy (Barbie)[edit]

Krissy (Barbie) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Do we really need an article for every Barbie doll? I think not. CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 01:57, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge to Tutti and Todd (Barbie) if that article is kept, or to List of Barbie's friends and family otherwise. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 01:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stacie (Barbie)[edit]

Stacie (Barbie) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Do we really need an article for every Barbie doll? I think not. CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 01:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge to List of Barbie's friends and family. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 01:34, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chelsea (barbie)[edit]

Chelsea (barbie) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Do we really need an article for every Barbie that has rolled of the production line? CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 01:55, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. Just a copy of Farhan Saeed with the title changed, made by user with same username as the title Qwyrxian (talk) 03:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Devendra.Meena[edit]

Devendra.Meena (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Non-notable, seems to be copy-and-pasted from somewhere. CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 01:52, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 05:43, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Enbrightenment[edit]

Enbrightenment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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I believe that this article fails WP:NEO and WP:GNG. It is on a concept written about by one author, and I can't find any secondary sources that discuss it. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:06, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Galilean Library is well known.

Not all sources are dependable, but Galilean Library is, and I have two separate links that show the use and appearance of the word back in 2005. Some links are there to show that the word is taking on a life in society, and being part of major product line names, and other products, along with various people using the word for their own spiritual descriptions of life. Siddha Buddha (talk) 19:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC) — Siddha Buddha (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

The Galilean Library link you provided above is merely the author of the book trying to promote his idea on an internet forum. Also, I'm afraid that other people using the term doesn't help satisfy WP:NEO either. I understand that you feel strongly about this guru, but Wikipedia is not the place to promote his views. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Someone else made some nice changes. Have a look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siddha Buddha (talk • contribs) 05:13, 19 June 2012 (UTC) — Siddha Buddha (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Custom Toll Free[edit]

Custom Toll Free (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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I removed a good deal of advertising from this, but I don't think they're actually notable. The awards are local and sourced only to PR sources. DGG ( talk ) 02:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: The company is notable and the article satisfies WP:GNG. WP:RS have been used to prove the fact that the company is actually notable. Not every company is worthy of getting local awards. There are thousands of companies in a state and few of them get awards on their performances by their respective states. Getting an award on a national or international level is not a criteria to nominate an article for deletion.
--Inlandmamba (talk to me) 16:00, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Obviously promotional IP opinions discounted.  Sandstein  17:55, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sanjay Govil[edit]

Sanjay Govil (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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I don't agree that a "lesser" (term used very loosely) award received 10 years ago evidences this person's continual notability. That seems to be the singular assertion of notability. However I am interested in what other folks have to say.   Thorncrag  15:50, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oops - Heh, I moved it back to the AfC space before the AfD was filed (I think we were working on it at the same time...). It was clearly copy-pasted from there. Please ping me if you'd like me to undo my actions. ~ Matthewrbowker Talk to me 21:05, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that the reason for being notable for an award received 10 years ago. I think the notability factor lies in how fast he grew the business in the small time frame. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alli440 (talk • contribs) 04:49, 12 June 2012 (UTC) — Alli440 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

That doesn't meet WP:BIO, though. And since the aforementioned award was ostensibly for the same reason, that's why I raised the issue. Still interested in seeing what other folks think.   Thorncrag  15:45, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It depends on whether there was significant coverage noting his rapid rise. Observe also that this article was created by an indef-blocked editor with a possible conflict of interest, and the only other comment above is from an account that mysteriously appeared after the author's account was blocked. Those facts don't make the topic non-notable, but they do make it more difficult to justify keeping this article. ~Amatulić (talk) 16:10, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to geocoding. The Bushranger One ping only 20:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Geocode[edit]

Geocode (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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No evidence given of WP:GNG (or any references at all) after 5 years for this (allegedly brand-name) product. Closeapple (talk) 04:41, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 20:40, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Trinidad and Tobago Mathematics Olympiad[edit]

Trinidad and Tobago Mathematics Olympiad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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non notable high school team; no sources. Prod removed by author DGG ( talk ) 05:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Closing this as non-admin as speedy keep per justification here. Player clearly meets WP:NBASKETBALL and WP:GNG. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:08, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Terrence Ross[edit]

Terrence Ross (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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Not a professional player - still at college level so this fails WP:NPLAYER. Spartaz Humbug! 09:46, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - One doesn't have to be professional to be notable. At WP:ATHLETE, college athletes can be notable if they: 1) Have won a national award (such as those listed in Template:College Football Awards or the equivalent in another sport), or established a major Division I (NCAA) record, 2) Were inducted into the hall of fame in their sport (for example, the College Football Hall of Fame), or 3) Gained national media attention as an individual, not just as a player for a notable team. Ross received significant media coverage as one of the best players in one of the highest profile leagues in college basketball. Wikipedia editors from outside the US should understand that college basketball in the US receives more media coverage than most countries' pro leagues do in their own lands. Also, Ross is likely to be drafted in the 2012 NBA Draft in less than 2 weeks, which would make him notable again. But a simple Google search shows his college career already meets WP notability standards linked above. Rikster2 (talk) 22:39, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment - this AfD tag will come off when Ross is drafted in about an hour. He's one of 15 players invited to attend the draft, meaning he's projected as a sure-fire first round pick. Rikster2 (talk) 23:21, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 05:42, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sheikh Younas Azam[edit]

Sheikh Younas Azam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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could not verify any information about the dead journalist. a single dead link used as a reference. Tagged for notability since 2008 DBigXray 09:53, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Even the search for the Urdu name did not turn up anything. Which is strange as the person being a journalist. --DBigXray 05:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 05:40, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Hale (Resistance)[edit]

Nathan Hale (Resistance) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • Stats)
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The article is currently listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2012 May 23. I don't believe it qualifies as a copyright violation (other than the technical sense, that the attribution isn't sufficient) as the source is licensed CC-BY_SA, and a cursory review of the source history suggests it wasn't simply copied and pasted from another place.

The article has no references, which can be fixed, but it is written In-universe, contrary to MOS, and, IMO, would take as much work to rewrite as it would to start from scratch.

My specific suggestion is to userfy (and no-index) the article to the primary contributor, so that the editor can look into whether some portions might be merged elsewhere, or a new article should be written in an acceptable perspective. SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC) It should be noted that an attempted was made to convert this to a redirect, but it was reverted here. That may still be an option, but it clearly was opposed.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 18:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, it was not "clearly opposed". That editor is a persistent vandal which has a dynamic IP and has been repeatedly asked to discuss and blocked. CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 06:43, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
By clearly opposed, I mean it was reverted, so not accepted by at least one editor. I didn't use the word consensus; apologies if that was implied. It may still be the right option; I simply wanted to point out that we cannot simply do that and be done with it, there needs to be a consensus.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 01:59, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - nom CyanGardevoir (used EDIT!) 06:43, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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  1. ^ Smith, Peter (2009-02-09). "Twitter and the Dalai Lama". IT World. Retrieved 2012-05-27.
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