The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Spartaz ^Humbug! 11:15, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kaneko Ietada[edit]

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This is a non-notable samurai, if he even exists. The only sources I'm seeing on him are from wiki mirrors and the only reference provided, "The Samurai Sourcebook" doesn't mention him in the index (I checked through Amazon). Other than that, it reads like it was either made up or original research. Tavix | Talk 21:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Before removing the prod, I verified that he exists through using Google Books (searching for the name without quotes gives a few more hits), so it is definitely not a hoax. I also still don't understand how you can say there is original reseach in the article. How could the author of the article have determined what Kaneko Ietada did or said other than by reading it in a published source (its not like he could have been there and witnessed it himself)? I didn't find any in-depth coverage of him, but I don't have access to the sources listed in the article (The Samurai Sourcebook and Hogen Monogatari). Calathan (talk) 21:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. -- Ron Ritzman (talk) 02:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as original research unless references can be confirmed. --DAJF (talk) 03:20, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am disturbed that the nominator is questioning the veracity of article without apparently checking Hogen Monogatari, one of the two cited sources. I also do not see what sort of of original research is involved and request clarification. That aside, it seems to me that any warrior considered a supreme embodiment of virtue and prowess by a chronicler writing a century and a half later is *some* sort of notable -- that our guidelines do not explicitly cover this situation demonstrates that the guidelines are not complete. Keep and get someone familiar with the sources to clarify which parts are being cited directly from the Hogen Monogatari. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:04, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The Google books edition of the only extant translation of the Hogen Monogatari is the sort to display only snippets of search results but that's enough to substantiate Ietada's existence as a player in the Hogen disturbance. This translation is cited by several scholarly works discussing the disturbance that mention him by name, some of which discuss his actions in particular, again only retrievable in snippets. However, I think these are enough to show that the subject is indeed notable. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:53, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Geh. Shows of what comes of searching with terms that are too restricted. Kaneko no Jōrō Ietada is also chronicled in Heike Monogatari, as one of the Kaneko brothers, named in some translations as Ietada of Musashi. Most notably in chapter 11:3, in an incident dramatic enough I remembered it two years after reading it, though not with the names attached. Unfortunately, Google books do not allow access to that chapter of the two main translations, but one does list him in the index. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:59, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and cleanup. Sounds like this may just require a trip to the library.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton | ^Talk 00:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The coverage found by Quasirandom proves that Kaneko Ietada is notable. The likelihood that more sources (including any written in Japanese) exist is very high, so this article should be kept. A search for "金子家忠", Kaneko Ietada's name, returns 107 results. Some are false positives, such as Comics & Graphic Novels, but perhaps some will provide significant coverage of this samurai. Cunard (talk) 08:10, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.