The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Consensus is that artist does not currently meet WP:MUSIC criteria. SmashvilleBONK! 17:11, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Sammeroff[edit]

Jonathan Sammeroff (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Article created by COI editor using what appears to be several socks. All refs except one point to his own webpage, the one independent ref that there is isn't enough to establish notability. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 01:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, fails WP:MUSIC.--S Marshall Talk/Cont 01:39, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notability can be established thus under the following categories:

1. It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.
---sources cited include the jTelegraph and the Sunday Herald, both established, highly respectable and reliable newspaper publications. There have been many more but these are the only I could find that were still available online.

4. Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country
---jOnO has toured the UK with widespread coverage from numerous BBC radio stations, appearing at interviews & live sessions lasting up to an hour long in length.

12. Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network.
---jOnO performed a 1/2 hour live session and interview on the Alan Thompson drivetime show on BBC Wales which broadcasts across the entire country.

ooops i forgot to sign! :D Peenapplay (talk) 23:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)peenapplay[reply]

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jonathan_Sammeroff"

Question is the telegraph piece referenced in the article. I can't find it. The Sunday Herald one a real short. As for the radio interviews is there any way that you can prove what you are saying here. Do you appear on a BBC website anywhere? The words "non trivial" are the important ones here. In particular can you prove the Alan Thompson interview, do radio stations publish records of who appeared on them? Theresa Knott | The otter sank 23:20, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Answer Thanks a lot for giving this article your attention Theresa. The telegraph piece was referenced but I believe someone removed it. I have added that source in again. Also removed for reasons unclear to me, but now reinstated are references to BBC 6 Music and Myspace Radio; both major UK radio stations. The Sunday Herald article may be short but it is by no means "trivial" according to Wikipedia's own explanation of what qualifies as trivial on their page on "notability". Also added is another link to a non-trivial article in The Sun newspaper. It also states on that page that only one of the twelve criteria are required to prove notability. This now qualifies the article for criteria no.1 of establishing notability.

Regarding criteria no.4 and no.12 of notability, which the second part of your query is addressing, radio stations are not bound to publish records online of playlists and of who appeared and when. In fact BBC radio stations tend to remove their archived playlists after a few weeks. The only referenced BBC station that keeps their archived playlists online is BBC 6 Music. I cannot prove the other ones with online playlists. However if you would like evidence that he was at the cited BBC radio stations there are pictures of jOnO with all the DJs on the photo page of his website. source: [1] Is that worth citing in the article? I didn't think so! :D
Peenapplay (talk) 00:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)peenapplay[reply]

I would also like to say that information proving notability is constantly being removed from the page since this debate began. It is possible that these are being incorrectly removed by a bot. I am saving my edits in notepad anyway. Peenapplay (talk) 00:32, 30 August 2008 (UTC)peenapplay[reply]

Comment: Because you are attempting to assert notability by using myspace links. Myspace is not a reliable source and information from there does not confer notability. ~ AmeIiorate U T C @ 01:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Response: it's Myspaces ONLY UK radio station and is therefore not your typical myspace link. This is not to confer notability; it is simply a point of interest, as not just anyone can get played on there :) Peenapplay (talk) 01:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)peenapplay[reply]
If he were notable enough for inclusion into Wikipedia there would be multiple references to him in reliable sources. The Google test isn't a fool-proof method but it does give a reasonable place to start, and "Johnathan Sammeroff" only returns seven results. ~ AmeIiorate U T C @ 04:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC) Bah, sorry about that. ~ AmeIiorate U T C @ 05:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Response: Firstly, you mis-spelled the name. Secondly, look up his stage name "jono" and his album name "sentimental anarchist" or his single "stuck in the city" in google and see how many results come up. Thirdly, even though you will find this google search to be fruitful, this has absolutley nothing to do with whether or not the article warrants satisfactory criteria for entry into Wikipedia according to notability requirements anwyay. Fourthly, I have demonstrated that satisfactory criteria cited by Wikipedia to meet notability requirements have been met :)
Thanking you, Peenapplay (talk) 05:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)Peenapplay[reply]

Comment Looking at google Sentimental anarchist" jono gives 81 hits. That's not that many actually, but it's quality that counts here so we need to go through and find the good ones. My thoughts at the moment are that you are not famous enough at the moment (But I will look for the refs later). I see that you have just released a single, it would be interesting to see how that does. A chart success would definitely tip you in my eyes but I can't help thinking that your motivation for writing this page about yourself now is to try and foster that chart success. I'd much rather it happened first then the wikipage. Still I will look at the references more closely in the morning, I'm too tired to do it tonight. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 23:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP. Thanks for your comments Theresa. But I can't help wondering if I am missing something. No one is taking my side on clear evidence of notability. Whether or not you personally think that jOnO is "famous enough" does not really have anything to do with notability criteria cited by Wikipedia. It seems clear to me that being famous enough and meeting notability criteria are in fact one in the same. Therefore, jOno is both notable and famous enough. Thanks also to everyone else who has taken the time to join in this debate. Even though it is me vs the rest of you, I have still really been enjoying it :)
Best wishes to all from Raymond Peenapplay (talk) 18:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)peenappley[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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