- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. I see no consensus here. What I'm not seeing is any support for Deletion. Editors who are arguing for a Redirection or Merge can start a discussion on the article talk page to pursue that option but that can happen outside of an AFD. Liz Read! Talk! 03:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Argo (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Starting a formal AfD as an editor objects to this article being a redirect. This group's claim to fame is their Eurovision Song Contest 2016 appearance, and all references included in the article and through an internet search appear to pertain to that appearance. Per WP:ONEEVENT, I propose a redirect to Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2016, which is a good article and includes all notable endeavors by this group in greater detail and with additional context. Grk1011 (talk) 14:58, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I just want to re-emphasize the WP:1E aspect of this since folks keep bringing up WP:MN, for which criterion #10 states that if the notable endeavor is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that article. Additionally #12 states that the subject has to be the featured subject, which I take to mean not just a participant in the event. As an internal selection candidate from Greece, they weren't even winners or featured subjects of a national selection event. No information at all is lost by a redirect. Grk1011 (talk) 12:46, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a notable endeavor, but it appears it's the only notable thing they've done. Prior to ESC, they were not really known, even in Greece, and they haven't released any noteworthy material after Eurovision either. As this whole article is about them in relation to Eurovision, the redirect seems natural. This is not a request for deletion. Grk1011 (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - meets WP:MUSICBIO, by having TV appearances, criterion #10 and #12 .Maxcreator (talk) 21:28, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Staying by my Keep rationale. If we follow Wikipedia guidelines, this group is notable.BabbaQ (talk) 07:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but as I've already explained above, guidelines state that they should be notable for more than one event, otherwise the redirect is more appropriate. Grk1011 (talk) 14:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Reiterating my support for a redirect; Grk1011 is right to point out that WP:1E has a very big part in this AfD process which I believe the majority of responses above have failed to take into account. WP:MUSICBIO point 10, which has been outlined above, in fact explicitly points to 1E and suggests that a redirect may be more appropriate. As for point 12 of MUSICBIO, I'm not sure I see how being one participant in a contest with over 40 other participants counts as being a "featured subject", especially when the group were chosen internally by the Greek broadcaster and were therefore not part of a "substantial broadcast segment", such as a national selection show. Regarding Eurovision participation being seen as notable in itself, there are several other previous Eurovision participants whose articles are either redirects or do not exist for the very simple fact that Eurovision was their only notable achievement, hence falling down on 1E. There's nothing within this article that isn't already expressly presented within Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2016, which is a much better article to cover all aspects of the group's participation in the only event in which they are anyway notable. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 (talk) 02:22, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- As a response to above the fact is that er criteria 10 and 12 of WP:MN applies for notability.BabbaQ (talk) 15:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I feel like a broken record, but as has been pointed out, this isn't a matter of whether they are notable, but whether they meet 1E (notable for more than one event). Guidelines are clear that articles for subjects that are notable for only one event should be redirected to that event where their activity is described in much more detail. I fail to grasp what a standalone page that just says "they took part in Eurovision" and not much else accomplishes. Grk1011 (talk) 15:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. No consensus here yet, we need some more discussion participants as there is a fundamental disagreement on interpreting WP:MUSICBIO as it applies to this article, particularly in regards to criteria 10.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per BabbaQ. Meets NMUSIC points 10 and 12. Note past precedent from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sestre (drag act), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Bonnici and no consensus close on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Max Jason Mai all with Delete voters citing BLP1E in the context of Eurovision. On a non-deletion argument related note, I'm incredibly skeptical of the idea of "merge info to Eurovision page" given the mass redirection of Eurovision artists to these pages resulted in... a failure to do exactly that, like with S!sters being redirected (without consensus) and no new info being added to Germany in the Eurovision Song Contest 2019, resulting in the page not even containing the names of the artists in the group. Sigh. Anyway, I vote keep. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 13:38, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Regarding your point around a failure to merge information previously, in the case of this article almost the entire contents of the article is already contained within Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2016, so any merging that would need to happen is ridiculously miniscule. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 17:38, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I appreciate the reassurance on this (though I still fall into the Keep camp), just had to express my frustration at this being an ongoing trend with Eurovision pages. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 20:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Apologies for missing that during the redirect of Sisters, but in my defense, it was because the group members were only in the infobox and not in the written parts; everything written was already in the target article. I also want to respond to your mentioning of those other AfD discussions, and I believe individual biography articles are a bit different than a short-lived musical group, so there are some nuances to this nomination. Grk1011 (talk) 19:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge I believe it should be merged, though it absolutely should be followed to make sure that it is actually merged and not just forgotten like mentioned above about S!sters.Ktkvtsh (talk) 19:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect per nom. WP:NMUSIC explicitly states that
meeting any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept
, and it is unhelpful to readers to have a standalone page that can't be expanded past a stub. Mach61 18:18, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect to Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2016. The article doesn't provide any new material that is not already present in the Greece 2016 article. EurovisionLibrarian (talk) 19:18, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak keep – Even with a quick search for the band's work prior to Eurovision, they did release music for 15 years prior to their Eurovision participation. There is clearly some substance in having a separate article beyond their participation — IмSтevan talk 17:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.