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Due to the amazing history of vandalism, I added indefinite pending changes. Please ping me if this becomes onerous.-- Deepfriedokra

. 115.70.100.169 (talk) 03:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On the 1st of January, 2024, a pact was signed between Ethiopia and Somaliland, where Ethiopia will lease the port of Berbera on the Red Sea, and a 20km stretch of Red Sea coastline, for 20 years, in exchange for eventual recognition of Somaliland as an independent state. If this pact is honoured, Ethiopia will become the first United Nations member state to recognise the breakaway nation.

So much for a Greater Somalia including Djibouti and the North of Kenya ? AndrewHart500 (talk) 04:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Somalia_(orthographic_projection).svg#mw-jump-to-license

The picture has been locked by an administrator, leaving it stuck in a state that does not accurately represent de-facto territory. I would strongly suggest Somalia be shown with its de-facto borders, not de jure borders, per standard border guidelines. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 18:30, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland de-facto in the map used is much larger than the reality on the ground. Somaliland doesn't control 40% of its claim territory. SSC-Khatumo is a new unionist administration controls that 40% after 13 years of struggle against Somaliland and its ambition to seek independence based on colonial borders. Meaning even the new replaced map is not accurate. We need a map that shows the real size of the de facto entity while showing Somalia with its SSC-Khatumo. If that is not available, we can for now use the de jure map of Somalia, which reflects the recognised borders of Somalia. Anwar8989 (talk) 08:38, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok so a few things

• Firstly, Somalilands claimed borders vs it's controlled territories have always being fairly vague because of the dispute involving it and Puntland state borrders. It would be highly impractical to constantly adjust the map based on Los Anod conflict territorial gains and loses, especially since the conflict has been plagued with poor coverage by third party organisations, meaning accurate battle lines are difficult to draw anyway.

To explain why Somaliland qualifies for being mentioned on the map, let's look at two examples which overlap here:

• File:Morocco_(orthographic_projection,_WS_claimed).svg (Morocco map): On this map, despite Western Sahara controlling very little of what they claim, many states do not recognise Moroccan ownership of it, and so the entire Western Sahara is not included as being undisputably part of Morocco.
• File:CHN_orthographic.svg (China map): The Indian claim on this map is an example of a claim not being recognised by many other states other than itself, but is included anyway.

Other examples would include Guyana Essequibo being claimed by Venezuela, and Northern Cyprus being claimed but not shown as controlled on the map of Cyprus despite being otherwise unrecognised by anyone.

Hopefully this is a good enough explanation as to why it should be changed for you. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 13:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The conflict was not only over a city, it was over a territory that makes 40% of territories claimed by Somaliland. Now the region has its own administration which is fully independent from Somaliland. Also who would cover a war in non recognised entity that has barely any influence on the world. I think Somaliland needs a new map that shows its true borders, which can be easily constructed. Khatumo SSC is longer disputed, it is endorsed by both Puntland as independent state as well as the Federal government.

Looking at Morocco, Western Sahara is actually mostly controlled by Morocco, if we are keen on sharing accurate information, those maps should change too. I would advise on making new maps that shows the true uncontrolled size of Somaliland rather then sharing inaccurate information. I would go no for the current new map. Anwar8989 (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for late response

I still believe that the map should contain Somaliland, per my statement above. Not too sure on the guidelines on mapping, but if there isn't any, this could be the point to create one.In regards to creating maps, that can also be debated either way. Still, I am In favour of reverting the map to show Somaliland. Perhaps we should ask for a third opinion? ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 15:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi both, please allow me to join you in the conversation. I think both of you have a valid point. I am more in favour of creating a new map that reflects the real controlled territories of Somaliland rather than reverting to this old wrong map. We could leave this meanwhile. So, I would so no to the old map and yes for better replacement. SawsanJojo (talk) 18:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFC discussion

Should the current map of Somalia on this page, which does not show the areas controlled by Somaliland be replaced? If so, in what way?

• Option 1: Keep current map
• Option 2: Replace current map but with a map only highlighting rough boundaries of the areas de facto controlled by Somaliland in light of the current Los Anod conflict
• Option 3: Replace current map with a map highlighting Somaliland's de jure borders
• Option 4: Show a map of Somalia with its de jure borders, while also displaying one with its de facto borders.

It's worth noting there was an edit war on this issue back in December, resulting in the current version of the map being protected. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 15:50, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Option 3, with a secondary preference for Option 2 per my comments above (before RFC). ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 17:30, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland is not a dejure state, in fact, never was either. Therefore, its claims control over territories is something that we are not certain of, also no international actor recognises Somaliland claim of these territories. Somaliland always had disputed border and now doesn't control all the eastern part of its claimed territory. Therefore option 3 is definitely not a choice.

Somala's current map is a dejure. The world recognised Somalia with its 1960s border, the entire world. It makes sense to leave it with the current option. I will vote Option 1 Nawal00 (talk) 19:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update:Secondary preference for Option 4 ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 18:43, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Option 1 - I don't think our maps typically represent what authority "de facto" controls a certain region. They more typically represent what the internationally recognized boundries are (e.g. Ukraine). It's a fair point that not representing regions that are "de facto" controlled by other parties may be slightly misleading for readers, but I think the overwhelming counter argument to that is that it's relatively easy for us to figure out internationally recognized borders, and relatively hard for us to figure out de facto borders. Trying to use de facto borders would just throw everything into chaos. NickCT (talk) 16:45, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I understand the point about not using actual de facto line of control, hence my leaning towards Option 3, but it must be said that even on the Ukraine's page we have a map showing its de jure borders (The initial one), but then we have one showing territories currently occupied by Russia, as seen at File:Europe-Ukraine (disputed territory).svg. I actually never thought of using two maps beforehand, like it is on Ukraine. Perhaps it could work?ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 17:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm a bit confused by your statement. Would you agree or disagree that the map for this article (i.e. Somalia) should show Somalia's de jure borders, like Ukraine's map show's its de jure borders? Two maps could make sense. Showing the "disputed territories" somewhere in the body seems reasonable. NickCT (talk) 19:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry, I find it a bit hard to put it accross, I was suggesting we show that Somalia does indeed claim Somaliland, but does not control it in its entirety, which could be indicated via a shade if lighter green (it was like this until a edit war in December that resulted in the map being given protected status). Two maps could be a comprimise by allowing Somalia's internationally recognized borders to be shown while allowing people to view what it de facto controls. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 21:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  (For an example of what a mean, see Morocco and how West Sahara is highlighted on the map, or Cyprus in which North Cyprus is shown as claimed but uncontrolled.) ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 21:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah. I mean I guess we sometimes represent de facto borders (e.g. Cyprus, Morocco, Moldovia), and sometimes de jure ones (e.g. Ukraine, Yemen, Myanmar). I'm really not sure what the distinction is between those places. I stick to what I said earlier about de jure borders being easier to represent. NickCT (talk) 22:07, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(I added a fourth option there now, based off the comments of NickCT) ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 10:00, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I'm confused by the options here. I don't understand the difference between options 1 and 3, I'm unsure what 2 would look like, and 4 seems like it's still leaving questions unanswered. I was just looking at the page for Ukraine, and for its European map, here, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe-Ukraine_(disputed_territory).svg#/media/File:Europe-Ukraine_(disputed_territory).svg, it shows the de jure and de facto territory in dark green, while showing the de jure but uncontrolled territory in light green. This would be my suggestion for Somalia, as well. Garnet Moss (talk) 00:04, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Option 1 shows only Somalia with borders recognised by the UN, option 3 would show both Somalia and Somaliland on the map. You brought up the Ukraine map. In this context it would fall into Option 3. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Option 3 if it looks like the maps in Cyprus and Georgia (country). Alaexis_¿question? 10:02, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This seems sensible to me – the two-color maps in those articles are clear, neutral, and informative. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 14:41, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The main problem for option 3 is that SL is shown much bigger than it controls. Option 1 could be a temporary solution, 3 is definitely no accurate and not the right choice Anwar8989 (talk) 16:08, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Option 1 as I commented above, SL map shared in the past is inaccurate and while a new map is to be generated, option 1 is the de jure most real map to adhere to.
• Option 4 Ours is ok but doesn't give enough weight to the De Facto situation which is fairly stable and widely reported. Lukewarmbeer (talk) 09:46, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Option 4 if there is reliable information about de facto boundaries. Otherwise option 1. Senorangel (talk) 04:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

gobolka raascasayr waa gobol kamid aha gobolada puntland, waxa loo magacaabay gobolnimo sanadkii 2013-ka. caasimadiisu waa caluula waxa uu kakooban yahay 5 degmo 1-caluula 2-baargaal 3-bareeda 4-murcanyo 5-gumbax gobolkani waxaa mara badwaynta hindiyo iyo gacanka cadan. waxa uu kucaan yahay maydiga iyo beeya bedkiisu waa 11,490km² 102.223.188.66 (talk) 19:04, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Somalia. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the ((ESp)) template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Okay, in the “HDI” tab, it says that Somalia is last. I think it would make more sense to change that to “193rd.” Also, the UN Country Insight states that Somalia’s HDI increased by 0.380 because it has basically never had data before. For South Sudan, they didn’t write “last.” 48JcL48 (talk) 00:39, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]