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This article is mostly a discussion forum rather than an collection of information.
I'd like my paragraph to be added under the first sentence in the New Age Section. It calls Satan "The Light" without ever explaining the origins of that. So I'll be adding this : "The idea of the devil being "the light" is based off a common misunderstanding about the name "Lucifer" which means "Morning Star". In actuality the Hebrew Bible's reference to Lucifer was about a Babylonian King by that title and not Satan. Christian monks assumed "Lucifer" was a reference to Satan while translating the hebrew bible into latin. Another common misunderstanding about Satan is his image as being that of a "Goat head". This misunderstanding is due also to the translation of the hebrew bible when mentioning the demon Azazel. Azazel was a goat god supposedly worshipped by some tribes in the middle east and promptly became an evil spirit in jewish mythology." These are facts which can be verified on the internet where sources are mentioned.
Another thing that disturbed me was under the Islam's View on Satan section. There is no where mentioned in the Qur'an that "Iblis was so good that he was counted among the angels" Iblis was a Jinn, a creature made of smokeless fire, and he was a chieftain among the chief according to the Qur'an. He refused to bow when Adam after God commanded it due to a kind of miracle that had been performed. Iblis argued that he is made out of smokeless fire and Adam is just made out of modified clay, thus Iblis believed himself superior. I'd like to fix it just lightly.
On Nov 29 2001, Balanone revised the last paragraph from
to:
RK then rewrote this to the paragraph below, asking, "Why accuse Satanists of lying about their beliefs? If they say they worship Satan, then they worship Satan. Calling them liars is NOT a neutral point of view."
Would this be a better compromise?
The current article contains the suggestion that the story of Lucifer falling from heaven is influence of Milton's Paradise Lost. I don't know for certain, but I doubt that this is true. As I understand it, this belief is based on interpretations of (admittedly somewhat obscure) passages in Revelation and Isaiah; interpretations that date back to the early church. Milton, rather than being a source of this story, merely expressed it in poetry. -- Simon J Kissane
You're correct Simon. Revelation 12:7 - 8 (NIV)
re: "In a few neopagan religions, Satan is merely seen as a symbolic representation of humanity's collectively evil ways. "
Not true. Neopaganism teaches that we are naturally good, not evil. There is no concept of hell, satan, or sin. --Dmerrill
You are comfortable speaking for all neopagans here?
There is a need for more discussion hee of past examples of Christians identifying those who reject Christian beliefs, values, and practices as "Satanists" even though those people never claimed to worship Satan. I am not refering to contemporary neo-pagans, but to non-Western societies under European colonial occupation, and non Christians in the early middle ages (I am not refering to Jews but to other Europeans). I have heard from enough sources that this has occured to believe it, but I am no expert and hope that other Wikipedians can fill this out, SR
Removed this: "(Interestingly, scientists have discovered that primitive snakes did indeed have legs.)"
sure, snakes evolved from lizards around 100M years ago and there were transitional forms. But it is a non-sequitur in this context. clasqm
Removed this: "Yet, there are still others who believe that Satan is actually another alias of the Sumero-Egyptian Deity Enki/Ptah..."Spiritual Satanists"....these are the beliefs of the Joy of Satan Church."
The Joy of Satan Ministries is a very small group of "satanists" (mainly a Neo-Nazi org - www.666blacksun.com), that have been exposed for fraud, and blatant plagerism. One of their former founders and high priests HP Dann, has written an expose which is located at: http://www.satanspowers.tk
If you would like to provide an example of traditional satanism, I would recommend Diane Vera's Theistic Satanism page at: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/ Sekhmet
I took another stab at the last paragraph. My main objective was to get rid of this phrase,
My objection is to the passive voice, which not only (in my personal opinion) sounds pompous, but more importantly is unclear. In this context, it is especially important to specify WHO thinks Satanists worship Satan. I do not knw the historical literature well enough and hopeothers will develop this. But I do know that many accounts of "satanists worshiping Satan" were written by Christian authorities, and it is far, far from certain that the people in question actually identified themselves as Satanists, or whether they were actually worshiping Satan. SR
about the line: "One novel view is that Satan will be restored in the last days and become a good angel again."
could someone provide a reference to where this view comes from? JFQ
The article provides a Hebrew and a Greek derivation for the word. It is my understanding that the word is Hebrew, it entered Greek from Hebrew, and is no more a Greek word than it is an English word. Is there any expert on the history of Greek out there who knows more about this? Slrubenstein
No. Shaitan is the Arabic spelling of Satan. شيطان for those of you who can read Arabic. ---Chiramabi
From the article: That such imagery calls to mind the Christian Satan is by no means coincidental. That is to say, despite their persistent attempts to distance their traditions from Satanism per se, modern witchcraft and neopaganism turn out to fundamentally involve reversals of Christian imagery, probably as a form of sublimated protest. (Another clue would be their reclamation of the names "witch" and "pagan," which are traditionally associated with evil.) Where the farging hell did that come from? I've removed it and added some more well-established history. Dan 05:39, 2 November 2005 (UTC) In case someone doesn't see the problem with that paragraph as a claim of fact, consider that the article itself attributes the popular image of "Satan" to images of the old Greek God Pan. Does Greek mythology "fundamentally involve reversals of Christian imagery"? Does the claim about neopagans exclude Greek reconstructionism? Dan 05:50, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
I was going to mention some edits or additions I have made, but also note that I may change them. I am noting them for anyone who thinks my edits do not belong. However, I myself am uneasy with whether or not my edits belong, and will most likely change them myself. Under the "In the New Testament" section, I added to the fourth paragaph what the other two "enemies of humanity" were according to "some other forms of Christianity." Although this is factual information, it may not be worth mentioning in this section, as this is more of an extra bit of information not dealing with Satan directly, but having to do with the last statement, which stated what the other two "enemies of humanity" are according to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Any thoughts weclomed, although I may change this edit shortly. The other edit I did was at the end of paragraph #6 of that same section. All I did was add a solution to a problem Gnostics have with the world's imperfection, based on the Bible text. I thought it useful for those trying to figure out whether or not the Gnostic's could be right, but I made it brief since our topic is Satan and not "Why isn't this world perfect or ideal?" There shouldn't be much problems with my second edit. Please take in mind that I'm trying to accurately represent Satan, etc, according to the New Testament Scripture in this section, since in this section the NT Scripture is the standard/basis for the view. Cartoonist Will 08:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I changed the article before but perhaps i should have made a name and all that good stuff... This article is horrible and no where near correct in many places. After a whole lot of research on the fallen angels for a script I was writing; I came to the conclusion that Satan and all the other fallen angels were in fact quite different. Including Lucifer being an enitrely different being from Satan. Read the Dictionary of the Angels. Including the Fallen. It explains everything.
I removed the additional name "Rachelle". I can't find any corroboration for it. I'm very suspicious to see a modern girl's name in the list of appelations of the devil. If I was oversuspicious, please replace. --ESP 00:54, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
If I am not mistaken, "Rachelle" is actually an ancient Hebrew/Jewish name. The spelling in the Hebrew may be different. If I remember correctly, "Rachelle" is the name of a character in the Tanakh/Old Testament. But I will need to find proof of this. Cartoonist Will 08:13, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Better to begin with the history and development of Satan before you get to depictions of Satan in the movies. Eliminate all passive voice of nonattribution. Get your dates attached to your documents (ca 150 A.D.-- like that). Use more quotes. There is no satan in paganism, that's a Christian and post-Christian fantasy. Leave the movies and video game images for the end. Forget "Apocrypha:" give books their names and dates. How can you discuss O.T. Satan without dividing your discussion into pre- and post-Exilic notions. What about Persia? "Apocrypha" is a historical development in itself and incompatible with NPOV, right? Get a format here where people who have some hard facts can hang them on something. Wetman 02:26, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)
The first paragraph states regarding Satan:
In the Hebrew Bible, Satan is an angel that God utilizes to test man for various reasons usually dealing with his level of piety (i.e. the test of Adam and Eve in Genesis, and the Book of Job). In the Apocrypha and New Testament, Satan is portrayed as an evil, rebellious demon who is the enemy of God and mankind.
From my knowledge of the Bible and various religion's interpretations of such, I would say that statement presented one of several different interpretations of who or what Satan is/represents in the Bible.
In addition, the paragraph implies that the Satan of the Old Testament is different to the Satan of the New Testament, which isn't a view many religions share. Perhaps the paragraph could be rewritten to present a more multilateral explanation.
--ClintonDaniel 06:06, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
If Satan is a servant of god, and Michael is also, then why do Micahel and Satan fight each other? Is Revelation 12 the same in the Hebrew Bible? --Rebroad 20:38, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Satan and Michael fight each other because Satan disobeyed God, while Michael's allegiance to God is unquestionable. Lucifer was supposed to be the most beautiful angel in heaven and was so magnificent that he let it get to his head. Lucifer sought to make himself like or above God, believing in his arrogance that this was actually possible. When this happened those angels who still held their allegiance to God and those who began to question their allegiance fought, the former led by Michael, the latter led by Lucifer. In John Milton's Paradise Lost, the War of Heaven lasted only two days before God sent the Son to end it and cast out Lucifer and his followers. When Lucifer was cast out, he was renamed Satan and when his angels were cast out they were later referred to as the Fallen, fallen angels, or more commonly referred to as the Judeo-Christian demons. ManofRenown87 04:12, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The page says "On the Day of Atonement his power vanishes; for the numerical value of the letters of his name (gematria and Hebrew numerals) is only 364, one day being thus exempt from his influence (Yoma 20a)." but the Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar and does not have 365 days. What's up with that?
- Not sure, you are correct in that there are only 354 days in the Hebrew calendar (except for years with an extra month) but Aish confirms the information. --69.153.241.162 17:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Why at the ens of the section "Images of Satan" there stands 2Hail Satan" and a Satanist symbol depicted? Andres 08:58, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The following piece of text was removed by User:Marcus2 from the section Satan#Satan in entertainment media. His edition summary was: "not relevant or notable enough to the article; please don't revert again". If you have an opinion about this, please add your comments. I feel there should be at least a mention about The Powerpuff Girls, if not a full description. Feel free to reorganize the entertainment section, as it currently is in a poor state.
Wipe 18:32, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is Ganon from the Legend of Zelda series of games viewed as being influenced by myths or misconceptions of Satan due to him (at least in the game "A Link to the Past") having a trident and looking like Pan, much like the non-canonical physical description of Satan? There are differences however, including that, although both have goat legs, Ganon from waist up appears to be a hairless pig or wild boar (depending upon certain games or cartoons), whereas Pan is from waist up human, or at least somewhat more human. Without proof that Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of the Zelda series, was influenced by this view of Satan, this is probably not worth mentioning. This most likely has no relevance to the topic, and I merely added it due to the above's involvement with the entertainment section. Cartoonist Will 21:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
i would like a discussion about when and why satan was invented.
I (--Wasabe3543 16:40, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)) deleted this section because it contains raving nonsense as follows:
Satan's Fall to Earth
- Research into spiritual matters using archeological precepts has been enhanced by the availability of powerful internet search engines. Very interesting and profound discoveries which also reveal the existence and physical nature of Satan have been made. These possibilities were previously abandoned or not considered due to its overwhelming nature previous to the advent of the Internet. The more popularly held views of Satan are excluded in favor of a truly literal and biblical method which, abandons the deeply entrenched traditional views reinforced by the media using both spiritual and secular repetition, inculcated into the gullible and unwary youth through the education systems of todays western world and then once again regurgitated through encylopedic policy. In this way the entire world has easily been misled and deceived. The scriptures themselves provide evidence that the entire world will be deceived as a consequence of Satan's "Fall to Earth":
Revelation 12:9
9And the great dragon was cast out, the ancient serpent, he who is called Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole habitable world, he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Availability of Powerful Internet Research Tools Identify Satan
Thank god you did, because that's a bunch of complicated unneccesary jargon. (24.4.244.190 21:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
The intro paragraph currently gives Genesis as an example of a place in the Hebrew scriptures/OT that God uses Satan to test humans. However, Genesis merely refers to the "serpent," not Satan, and that text is pretty clear that the serpent is merely one of its species rather than Satan-the-angel (otherwise the "Just So Stories" curse upon all of serpent-kind to slither in the dirt makes little sense). Ignoring of course POV religious retcons, is there something in the original Hebrew of the original source(s) of Genesis that suggests that this serpent is Satan, or was it just a talking snake as it clearly appears to be in the English translations? Additionally, what in Genesis indicates that God was testing humans? Job was explicitly expressed as a test—a bet, in fact, between God and Satan, but in Genesis, it doesn't appear that God was trying to see what humans would do, but rather that he just expected that they would obey. Postdlf 07:42, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
July 7th - 3:08
"Skeptics, influenced by science and rational thinking stemming from the Enlightenment have come to question whether Satan exists."
This passage implies that ONLY a questioning of Satan's existence can stem from rational thinking. The revision, which simply says, "Skeptics, influenced by thinking stemming from the Enlightenment," does not imply ignorance on the part of believers or doubters of his existence. The former way in which it was written, however, implies ignorance on the part of believers, and is biased. The revision shows no bias.
I've restored this cat which was removed on the grounds of being "POV". I find this removal difficult to understand. Satan does appear as a major character in several works of the Old and New testament. He is unquestionably part of the Abrahamic mythology. --Tony SidawayTalk 11:43, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Oh, yes. I think you may be right. Someone who believes in Satan might think that using the word "mythology" would imply the possibility that he doesn't exist. This is a difficult one for me. If I take it out again, shouldn't I also go around and remove all the references to other mythologies? There are hundreds of these gods, demiurges, sprites, goblins, angels, demons, fairies, and whatnot, who am I to imply that they might not in fact exist?
No, but seriously, in comparative religion a mythology is a story told by people to explain things that are otherwise difficult (at the time they write the story) to explain. The bible seems to fit well into this category. It may be completely true, but it's still technically a mythology. --Tony SidawayTalk 12:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Shaitan (شيطان) is the devil, or the enemy of Allah and is the equivalent of Satan in Christianity and Judaism. The Islamic view of Satan, has both commonalities and differences with Christian and Jewish views.
While Shaitan (شيطان, from the root šṭn شطن) is an adjective (meaning "astray" or "distant") that can be applied to both Man ("AlIns", الإنس) and Jinn, Iblis is the personal name of the Shaitan who is mentioned in the Quranic "Genesis", and whose origin is unclear.
Whenever the Quran refers to the creature who refused to prostrate before Adam at the time of the latter's creation, it refers to him as Iblis.
As per the Qur'an, before the creation of Man, Allah created the Angels — which had no free will — and the Jinn. One of the Jinn, Iblis (pronounce IB-lease) was so good that Allah elevated him to the rank of the angels. Later Allah created Adam, and ordered all the angels to bow to him. All the angels did so except Iblis, who was proud and considered himself superior. For this Allah damned him to hell for eternity, but gave him respite till the Doomsday at his request. Then and there Iblis swore that he would use his time to lead all men astray to burn in hell.
After their creation, Adam and Hawwa' (حواء, Eve) dwelt in Paradise (الجنة, AlJannah), where Allah forbade them to go near a tree. "The Shaitan" (or al-Shaitan in Arabic), tricked Adam and Hawwa' into eating from the tree. Allah then expelled all of them from Heaven and onto Earth, to wander about, as a punishment. Then Adam sought to repent to Allah, and Allah taught him the words by which to do so. Allah forgave Adam and Hawwa' and told them "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Qur'an 2:38)." Iblis will try to influence as many of their descendants as he possibly could into sin, so as to be his companions in his final destiny into Hell.
I removed this. I think there should be a passage on secular humanism, but this one reads too much like an essay and it has absolutely no references.
Questions:
--Tony SidawayTalk 12:31, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I still think that the article could use improvements.
First off, we need to get rid of that Ezekiel quote, it seem to add nothing to the article at all. We need to have a part that specifically explains how the myth of Satan originated, how it evolved, the various influences on it, more of the various current views on him, how he is seen by demonologists etc.
All the article does is add info, most of which people who know anything on the subject already know from before. It needs to present why that info is relevant.
We should present what relevance other gods and demons have to Satan, what infuences they have on the myth, what similarities there is etc. For example, Tiamat, Apis and Angra Mainyu have most likely inspired much of the current idea of Satan. Other gods such as Baal, Dis, Hades, Moloch, Pan, Pazuzu, Set and Shiva are likely to have contributed much to his image.
It is not a point of view on the origins of satan, it a fact what I wrote, people have the right to know the truth instead of some one way narrow minded view on this article. Why is it you people have so much of a problem with the truth? It fails to state anywere in the article of the origins and if you wanna get real technical the hebrews and the christians made satan up. There is not one single shred of evidence in any ancient text (not including the hebrew bible because it's not older than sumerian cuniform) that states anything of such a being. If there is gonna be an article on satan then the origins should be there as well and not only a one sided view, or else I will put a NPOV tag on it and nominate it for the VFD process. Khaosinfire 23:49, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
It's not a soapbox. There are many religious wikis where you can go to that would be to your liking. ColdRedRain 05:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Here are some links show me one reference to satan in ancient sumerian text.
http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/eden/roots.html
http://demons.monstrous.com/origin_of_the_devil.htm
http://www.unhinderedliving.com/satanmyth.html Khaosinfire 02:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay. So maybe I'm missing your point? You said above that Satan was an invention of the Hebrews, but then provide links stating that Satan was borrowed from other cultures. What's your point exactly? Yes there is sumerian ties. There are other ties as well - what's your point? -Visorstuff 04:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
There is no tie, only to demons but no actual supreme being or angel called satan, lucifer or the devil, satan does not appear until the hebrew bible. I went thru those links with a fine toothed comb and found nothing that says that satan appeared in ancient sumerian texts.
My point is that there should be a reference in the article that points out the facts of the origins of satan, otherwise people are being decieved into thinking that satan is a supreme being that is the leader of this place called hell, which is also made up later in christian texts. When I put a reference in the article it got removed saying it's a POV, when in fact it is not a POV it is a fact. So tell me how there can be a consensus thats says I am writing from a POV and not a NPOV when I am stating facts? If my statement I made is non NPOV then that means the truth cant be told because it does not fit the NPOV, in turn the NPOV is actually a lie because the whole story is not being told. People come here to learn so they deserve to know the facts and not just part of the story. Khaosinfire 07:56, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
I think if you look at the text of the KJV (I believe the Hebrew Bible and Septagint are very similar, you'll find that Lucifer was seen as a destroyer of nations. This is evident in Isaiah 14: 9-21 quoted below. Also, it is apparent from this passage that Lucifer was equated with death, sheol, and that he was a fallen angel - this is all attributed to about 700 BC. And Job's references to the Devil date back depending on the scholar, either to Moses's timeframe (some believe he was a magician in the kings court - see Book of Jasher) or the babylonian time period. In new testament times, Baal (Beelebub) is not equated with the devil in all cases - rather Jesus points to Baal as a heresy that is evil, but not the devil. Remember the religion of Baal and the religion of Jehovah were nearly identical aside from human sacrifices. Baal's religion believed in a messiah, eventual ressurection, he was he son of another God, etc. But because of human sacrifice it was seen as heretical and the god's name was different, so the other god was displaced by the believers of Jehovah. Here's the Isaiah quote:
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, [even] all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, [and as] the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, [and] slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. -Visorstuff 00:32, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
The religion's veiws on Satan isn't that unique. Why does it garner its own entry on Satan? Many other adventist and fundimentalist churches have almost the exact same veiw on Satan. This entry looks more like an advertisement for a religion rather than an exposure on unique beliefs.
ColdRedRain 05:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
It's there because it presents JWs' general view on Satan. The thing is that it is very difficult to present every Christian denomination's view on Satan, because not every is interested in presenting it. Most Christian denominations do not have that much of a different view on Satan. Some do have a different view, but are so minor that it makes it near impossible to present every view possible.
This article after all is supposed to separate Satan from The Devil, Lucifer, Iblis, Beelzebub, Samael, Abaddon, Asmodeus, etc. That makes it somewhat difficult to have a large number of entries, as this article focuses primarily on the name Satan, and separates the archetypes, views and "nicknames", and focuses on those in a secondary fashion. But if you can provide entries from other Christian denominations that are about "Satan", the name, primarily, then on the figure, secondarily, then please feel free to add it. Satanael 13:15, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0102.htm http://www.atruechurch.info/adventists.html ColdRedRain 03:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I've read it, though I don't see where you are going with this. Please elaborate, and if you have something to add to the article, then go ahead. Satanael 19:14, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Should this section be changed to a basic belief of who Satan is according to most forms of Christianity, while mentioning any differences between this basic mold and what certain forms of christianity may claim (like J.W.'s)? It appeared to be as if it were more of an advertisement for the J.W.'s to me, since it seemed to stick out like that. This J.W. view doesn't seem to be any different than the widely accepted view, even among Independent Fundamental Baptists, whose beliefs are vastly different than the J.W.'s. Cartoonist Will 09:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Did Satan Lie?
I don't think the JW portion of this article is accurate. It says:
"So, Satan's approach was a dual deception: First, that God was withholding good from them and second that he was lying in the process."
What did Satan lie about? God said Adam would die in that day if he ate from the tree (he did not). Satan simply said that you will not die and that you will gain knowledge. Satan's statement was accurate, God's was not. 208.49.247.227 15:36, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Actually, this is easily explained. One view is that Adam and Eve did not naturally age since God made the original world perfect, thus they could not die from natural causes (including disease which would not have existed). Another view is that God did not mean Adam and Eve would die physically, but spiritually (Eph 2:1). To sin is to disobey God. Because the command to abstain from eating "the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" was the only command God had given Adam and Eve, then there was no way for them to sin otherwise. The Bible states that sin seperates God from man (Isa 59:2), thus practically killing man's relationship with God. The Bible text says in Gen 3:8 that God walked in the garden of Eden during "the cool of the day." Giving an exact time may suggest that perhaps God's visiting them at this time was normal before they ate the fruit. The restoration of this relationship is the purpose of Christ's death. An example of how great sin destroys a relationship with God, is what happened when Christ died to pay man's sin debt. According to 2Cor 5:21, Christ was "made sin" for us, although He had never sinned Himself. It is believed that Christ's question, "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken Me?" in Mat 27:46 is because at this time, due to Christ's being "made sin" for us, God was actually separated from God for a short time (which is in itself too much for a man to fathom how such is possible). It is also believed that God's killing of the animal to make the skins used for clothing in Gen 3:21 was the first sacrifice for sins (the animal(s) died in their place), which sacrifices are repeated through out the Tanakh/Old Testament as a covering for sin, leading to the final and cleansing sacrifice, the God-Man Christ Jesus. (See also Rom 5:12; Rom 6:23). The conclusion is that Satan had lied when he claimed that Adam and Eve would not surely die. Adam and Eve did gain knowledge however (meaning Satan told the truth at this point), but humans could never truly become like gods despite that knowledge. It stands to reason that the world would have been a better place had not Adam and Eve sinned. Cartoonist Will 20:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Interesting... this would mean before they ate the fruit, they aren't good nor evil. Also, since God made man mirroring himself, this would mean god isn't good or evil as well? But, then again, "the fruit of the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil" would mean that after eating it, adam and eve will recognize what's good and evil. This would imply that if you don't know what's good or evil and you commit sins, you can't be held accountable for the sin by god? -XR, Mar 28,2006
Why it shouldn't be merged with Devil? Brandmeister 16:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
It is also true that if the term "devil" is to be taken as simply a fallen angel or another term for "demon," it does not fit the actual individual person known as "Satan." It is in the same way that one would not merge "Joe Smith" and "man" together. Even that Joe is a man, he is only one man and his name helps him to stick out as an individual. Cartoonist Will 08:09, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there a reason why great slabs of this article have been simply copy/pasted from the article on 'Satan' in the Jewish Encyclopaedia without any creditation or reference to the source whatsoever? Is this what makes it a 'Good article'?
I am interested in improving the quality of this article, since I have studied this particular field for a few years, but I would love to know what kind of standards people are practicing here. Taiwan boi 15:30, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
If no one else gets around to correcting this before I do, I shall be taking the time to identify the source of these quotes, in order to lift the standard of this article closer to something academically respectable. Taiwan boi 16:21, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I have now edited the section entitled 'Satan as an accuser'. It was almost a direct quote from the Jewish Encyclopaedia, with little effort to alter the text, and no creditation to the source whatsoever. I have simply included the entire reference from the Jewish Encyclopaedia, together with a link to the source.
The sections 'In Rabbinic literature' and 'In the Hebrew Apocrypha' also contain large amounts of text which have been lifted freely from the Jewish Encyclopaedia with almost no effort to alter them, and certainly no reference to the source at all. I intend to edit these in like manner. Taiwan boi 11:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I note that no one has mentioned the fact that 'Lucifer' was considered by some of the Early Church Fathers to be a title of Christ. I'll assemble some of my notes and make a reference to it, unless people think it's grossly offtopic. Taiwan boi 15:57, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
The article suggests that the idea of Satan was most likely introduced by Zoroaster and provides the www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=147&letter=Z&search=zoroaster article as supporting this view. The article however contains this and the opposite POV that the Hebrews may have influenced Z and concludes with the suggestion that time will 'show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults'. Johnmarkh 18:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
The article in its current form really needs attention to documentation. We assert quite a few things, without evidence. Could a few folk take the time to read through the lit in the reference section and add notes to the text? Thanks! --CTSWyneken 22:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
In the section on the New Age, the article states scholars from the Middle Ages made a mistake when they saw this passage as referring to Satan and not to the King of Babylon. Since quite a few Christians, including major figures in the history of Christianity, well aware of the King of Babylon, still see it as a prophetic reference to Satan, we should not take sides like this. If there's no objection, I'm simply going to remove the paragraph, which really is not needed in any case.--CTSWyneken 22:51, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
and he tries to make me believe in global warming and dentistryPeter cotton tail 20:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Comming soon...סרגון יוחנא
June 1st, kmat put this up "HEY EDITER BASTARDS DONT DELETE THIS OR YOU AND YOU FAMILY WILL KNOW THE NAME OF SATAN FOREVER. I WILL BRINAD HIS EVERY WORD ONTO YOU BODY, REMEMBER SEPTEMBER OF 1997, THAT WAS ME... ALL SIX OF THOSE PEOPLE. " and deleted all the rest of the text in this section.
Earlier in the day they did this in the same section: "I LOVE SATAN!!! He is basically the bomb....everyoe should worship him and do his biddings..LIKE KILL!!!! "
sigh Lsjzl 18:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I cleaned up and expanded the section the "satan" in the Tanakh.
I removed the reference to the serpent in Genesis. This section is about the use of the term "satan" in the Tanakh, and that term is never used in the Tanakh in reference to the serpent. This reference belongs elsewhere, discussing Satan in the New Testament or something.
I split off the reference to Job. In the other references, the term "satan" is not a title or name but simply the term "adversary." In Job it's different, so the refference to Job is split off from the common-noun "adversary" references.
I added reference to Satan inciting David to sin. It's a telling reference because it shows Satan doing what we commonly thing of Satan as doing: getting people to sin. Jonathan Tweet 03:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Some folks obviously want to use this page as a place to take about Satan, the Prince of Darkness, rather than about "Satan," the term that gets used in a variety of ways. But Devil is the general-purpose article that serves this purpose, not "Satan." Is there an easy way to point people to Devil so that if that's what they're looking for they can find it? Jonathan Tweet 03:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, after thinking about this on and off for two weeks and seeing how Wikipedia breaks up parallel topics that relate to more than one religion, here's how I think these articles should break out.
The Devil = general purpose Devil article, with "the Devil" as he appears in various religions, traditions, etc. Includes etymology of the word "Devil." Bascially the current Devil article.
The Devil in Christianity/Islam/Judaism/etc. = more specific articles about the Devil as he has appeared and is understood in various religions. The "Devil in Christianity" article will have a lot of material that's currently in the Satan article.
Satan = the specific term "Satan," its etymology and use
Lucifer = the specific term "Lucifer," its etymology and use
Shaitan = the specific term "Shaitan," its etymology and use
etc.
Since "Satan" appears in more than one religion, it doesn't make sense for the "Satan" article to be about the Christian devil, as stated in the intro on the Devil page.
What do folks think about this proposed structure? Jonathan Tweet 01:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I've got the Devil in Christianity page to the point at which it's ready. My next step is going to be changing links that used to point to Satan and have them point to Devil n Christianity. Then I'll start removing redundant material from this page. Jonathan Tweet 16:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Devil in Christianity is now live. (Thanks Shimirel.) I'm starting to port material from Satan to Devil when the material is about the Devil in general instead of Satan in particular. First I moved the Polytheist material, which belongs in the more general-purpose page: Devil. Some real work might need to be done with the Satan/Devil in Literature material. This should all be on the Devil page, but the format on the Satan page is different from the format on the Devil page. Jonathan Tweet 20:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I reverted changes by an anonymous user. Their assertion that informed Christians understand the serpent to have been possessed by Satan portrayed a minority view as the "informed" view. Given the controversy over the identity of the serpent, maybe we should spell out all the various interpretations rather than trying to name one as the "Christian" interpretation. Jonathan Tweet 03:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I do not see any word about linkage of satan to Egyptian god Set even from etymological point of view but this can not be a co-incident.There are a close relations between many religious items between pharoanic and semitic especially Arabic and Hebrew e.g. item denoting otherworld collectively assigned in Greek and Roman as underworld but in pharoanic it is called Akhert and in arabic الآخرة and the famous goddess Isis who called in pharoanic Izza and in old arabian Ozza عزي and so on .Therefore there is a definitive relation between Set and Satan.Of course there is no relation between Set mythes and Adam myth which is derived from Babylonian and Sumarian but we must put into consideration the complex interactions between nations of Near East since dawn of civilization. Dr Philip Attiya
What we can really do is to abolish Egyptian civilization from the map of Near East studies and everything will go alright as hebrews and their cousins Arabs do everything so what a stupidity if one states a definitive relation between Set and Satan or say that virgin Mary is just a representation of Isis or crucification of Jesus is just a modification of Osiris pain or illustrations of paradise and hell are written in Pertemhru book known as book of dead and moreover hundreds of arabic words are derived from old Egyptian.What can I say ? of course ,Nothing ! Dr Philip Attiya
I admit its funny to edit one article about a person and direct it to this, but it should not be done. I just fixed an edit of the page about Ehud Olmert which directed to this. People could be using Wikipedia at school for research, and that would just ruin their opportunities. Please don't do anything like that again.
Perhaps this may be a little far afield, but why would anyone worship a loser like satan? If there are any satanists out there perhaps you can tell me.
Satan revolts against God and is tossed out of Heaven on his keester. Jesus whops his butt the lowiest Angel of Heaven has more power than he does so why would anybody be depraved enough or silly enough to worship such a loser?
If you are going to worship someone go for the Big Guy, the Boss, the Universal Creator, no some psycho nutcase that's lost over and over again and is too stupid to realize that he's lost. Carr 00:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
By and large, Satanists do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God. As you state, Carr, if one does believe in an all-powerful god, it would be rather absurd to worship that god's enemy. However, since that isn't the view of Satanists, no contradiction exists. --FOo 05:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
At my current level of knowledge I do not feel ready to make a decision on the matter. But if i was to choose a side, I would have to back Satan, even if God is more powerfull, from what I have read, God is not what I consider good, not that Satan is, I feel that both sides are imperfect, I look at this more as neutral, but I would back Satan because for me, he represents a change. Also if one were to worship God because he is the more powerfull side then surely you will go to hell. I would rather go to hell knowing it was for what I believe in, but as I said earlier I'm not ready to make that decision. --Crabid 12:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Any idea? In popular belief he is male, of course, but afaik the Bible is not precise on this point. The question should be discussed in the article. --89.50.212.128 17:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the simplified Chinese word for Satan (日本人), I noticed it was identical to the Japanese word for Japanese (a Japanese person to be exact). I put it through a translator for simplified Chinese, and I got the same meaning. Is this a coincidence or an error? 199.126.137.209 00:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
My many years of taking Japanese led me to read the same thing. Just to be sure, I busted out my big book of kanji to make sure. Methinks someone vandalised the page in a subtle way that not many people would pick up on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.49.198.206 (talk • contribs)
Has someone vandalised this page? Some of the sentences are very silly. (I have amended some). Consider The nominative satan (meaning "adversary" or "accuser"), and the Arabic shaitan, derives from a Northwest Semitic root šṭn, meaning "to be hostile", "to accuse". Surely what is meant is name, unless I am missing the point that there is an accusative "satam", and maybe an ablative "satak".
In the Book of Job, ha-satan("the adversary") is a prosecuting attorney against mankind in the heavenly court of God. This must be vandalism. Surely the events of the Bible are not part of episodes of Law and Order.
I give up. This article is mocking me too much. Maybe Satan himself wrote it as a joke. Someone needs to undo the vandalism. Get behind me Satan!
Imagine the typical reader: after having finished Paradise Lost, he reads the article and finds it full of drug addled statements written in terrible prose. Rintrah 15:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Rusbel redirects here, but no mention of this name is made in the article. --NEMT 04:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
CjayC is also another reference to Satan, I dunno why you guys took that out.