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The following sentence from this article is an outright lie:
"Trump made comments following a 2017 white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, that were seen by critics as implying moral equivalence between the white supremacist marchers and those who protested against them as "very fine people"."
Trump clarified who he was referring to specifically during that interview stating:
"The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people -- neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest, and very legally protest"
He very clearly indicates he's specifically not referring to white supremacists, etc. This is not disputed by fact checking sources at PolitiFact and USA Today.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/17/fact-check-trump-quote-very-fine-people-charlottesville/5943239002/
USA Today clarifies that he didn't state it outright directly, but on a follow up question (ruling it partly false because the quote they use skips follow up question and combines the statements).
You will probably try to justify leaving this lie about what Trump said in the article by claiming your wording enables it. "that were seen by critics", and you will have some excuse as to why "seen by critics" isn't just another way of saying "some say". But I would refer to the following paragraph which negates this argument:
"Trump's controversial statements have been condemned by many observers around the world, but excused by some of his supporters as a rejection of political correctness and by others because they harbor similar racist beliefs."
This sentence presents a certainty and bias that makes the previous paragraph a declarative "fact" according to this website. You use the weasel words "excused by some of his supporters" both "excused" and "some of" being prejudicial to the facts, that being if Trump literally did not make a racist statement, then clarifying it, like PolitiFact and USA Today did, is not "excusing" his "racism" it is correcting an incorrect assertion. The only other group this article claims support his statement are racists; this article claiming "they harbor similar racist beliefs". If Trump did not state the white supremacists were "very fine people" as is wrongly asserted here despite multiple fact checks and years of debate and clarification. Then the subsequent paragraph stating anyone who says otherwise is making an excuse or is racist themselves is also a lie and politically biased.
If the "very fine people" issue were in a "controversy" section, and there were any clarification at all that despite what Trump literally said, and despite fact checkers, that there were critics of his statement, however incorrect their assertions, that would be an honest presentation of facts. But this article doesn't do that. It takes the incorrect assessment of "some critics" and presents it as fact, and doesn't even attempt to clarify that fact checkers have ruled their assessment to be false. You have biased debunked claims presented as fact and then in the next paragraph claim only racists and apologists would argue against this lie. Now commence the great weaseling-out where you justify perpetuating this lie despite what I have written and what fact checkers have concluded J1DW (talk) 04:45, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
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I suggest adding the times he disavows racism and white supremacy. 240F:CF:7F2:1:C0A2:EBDE:D215:C0F2 (talk) 04:57, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Ideally it would go into the section that discusses the controversy over Trump's unwillingness to disavow white supremacists. That topic is strangely missing from this page, which is odd given its relevance to this page. An alternative place for this information would be the "Defenses of Donald Trump" section. Some examples of Trump disavowing white supremacy and other hate groups can be found here:
I did not see that in the defense section; to be fair it was easy to miss given the tone of the article. It is very one-sided. It has over 60 multi-paragraph sections condemning Trump's alleged racism and support of white supremacists (use of "condemn" is valid in this context; charges of racism are unequivocally a condemnation in the modern era, neutral tone does nothing to diffuse), while the "Defense" section is extremely light on details (relative to the rest of the page); it barely dedicates more than a sentence to each defense. It even includes additional condemnations (opening of paragraph 2; ref #392). These counterpoints should be given more attention and the defense section should be expanded. The current defense does not accurately represent the breadth of Trump's record. It comes across as over the course of 30 years he's offered a tepid response once or twice. This simply is not accurate. Additional references to his numerous condemnations of white supremacy are warranted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.184.115.194 (talk • contribs)
Sorry it took so long to respond; I was getting "your ip is blocked" errors for a while. In any case, yes, I did skim the accusations against him, and I can that tell someone (or many people) put a lot of effort and energy into making their case against him. Would that a fraction of that effort was put into the Defenses section. Even as someone who isn't a fan of DT my takeaway is that Wikipedia really has it out for him. Consider that, in 2016 this accused racist received ~3% more minority votes than Romney, and that in 2020 he received ~10% more than that. If his approval improved among minorities, it begs the question of who exactly is levying these charges. Now that the election's over and he's no longer a threat, perhaps the democrats who've locked this article can allow more objectivity. ref https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-vote-rising-among-blacks-hispanics-despite-conventional-wisdom-ncna1245787 2600:1700:56A0:1F80:544E:31C4:7937:18E8 (talk) 17:04, 30 January 2021 (UTC)simonjester
I recently removed this material from the article. Citing undue and inappropriate. Gandydancer restored it stating It is neither undue nor inappropriate to document that Trump awarded a Medal of Freedom to a racist
.[1] One probably should not be calling him a racist in an edit summary. Two yeah pretty undue to the topic of Trump's racial views in general. Three not really an example of his racial views at all. Should it remain in the article or it is more suited to Limbaugh's article? PackMecEng (talk) 18:49, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Limbaugh, recently diagnosed with late-stage lung cancer, has devoted his decades-long radio career to building an audience of millions of listeners with his brand of right-wing, xenophobic — and patently racist — populism that Trump borrowed on his rise to power.In other words, the fact that Trump honored Limbaugh isn't merely notable because of Limbaugh's appeals to racism, but because Trump's own rise to power was heavily modeled on this. In fact, we could probably expand the section into a more detailed discussion of the connection between Limbaugh and Trump, since numerous sources touch on it - eg. [2][3] (
Limbaugh’s shtick on what he termed his EIB (Excellence in Broadcasting) Network may have been satire to millions, but countless others considered him to be a misogynistic, racist hatemonger who helped fuel the nation’s polarization into overdrive that paved the way for Trump’s 2016 election victory.), [4]
When a Republican politician promoting racist and sexist policies could only use a dog whistle, Limbaugh provided a bull horn — he was, for example, an early progenitor of the racist birther conspiracy theory about Obama that Trump would later use to fuel his political career.There's significant sourcing that Limbaugh was a major predecessor to Trump's racial views and influential on his approach to racial issues. --Aquillion (talk) 23:41, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Remove it. In fact I am going to remove it. It was recently added, apparently because of Limbaugh's death, but IMO it does not belong here. Simply put, Trump is not responsible for everything Limbaugh ever said. Nobody is responsible for everything a friend of theirs believes. As for the Medal of Freedom, Trump awarded it several questionable people (Devin Nunes?? Jim Jordan???), but that does not imply that he agrees with or endorses everything that person believes. And it certainly does not say anything about Trump's "racial views". If somebody wants to write a section on "influence of Rush Limbaugh" or "influences on Trump's racial views" or some such section as Aquillion suggests, that might belong here. In fact I think it would be good to provide some background on who influenced his ideas (starting with his father?). But the fact that Trump gave Limbaugh a prestigious award says nothing about his (Trump's) racial views. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
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2601:441:4C00:59A0:A9CF:7904:5B11:DF51 (talk) 23:03, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
instead of "and by others because they harbor similar racist beliefs" could you change it to "and by others because they harbor similar beliefs" to make it sound a tiny bit more neutral, thanks
Then establish any citation of his "racial beliefs" that they supposedly "harbor". You're entirely biased POV. It's not "less specific", it's more accurate. The sentence as is, is an unsourced lie. J1DW (talk) 00:43, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
There is a heavy slant toward highlighting his "racially insensitive" statements and only a very light section on people defending him. This page is severely biased toward one view. 2600:8804:8B8F:9E00:94BF:B7AC:4699:EEB7 (talk) 21:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
The lead sentence was twice changed by one editor with no talk page engagement. This was a violation of the 24-hour BRD restriction and the editor declined to self-revert, so I have restored the status quo. SPECIFICO talk 23:02, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
Listen, as I’ve said on the Trump page, I don’t like a Trump at all, but language such as “excused”, “harbor the same racist beliefs”, and “extremist” are not neutral by any means. Whether or not Trump’s align with mine does not excuse the legitimate biased sentiments that are being said in this article. Aardwolf68 (talk) 05:19, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
In the same press conference in which Trump uttered the infamous "many sides comment" he also responded to a question asking if white supremacists/nationalists should be commended, to which his response was "absolutely." Although it can be debated that his response may not have been serious, some on the left may argue that, while those on the right may defend his original comment. Regardless, the statement is relevant to the understanding of the more famous "many sides" comment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foward123456 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
"and you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."[1]
"There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally." The two statements were separate, the second part coming later, after further questioning from reporters. [2]
"“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.”..."“KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”"..."“I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch.”"[3]
"THE FACTS: Trump is correct. On Monday, NBC News tweeted that Susan Bro, the mother of the counter-protester killed on Saturday, had thanked Trump for “denouncing those who promote violence and hatred.”[4]
These are from Politifact, USA Today, Factcheck, and PBS. Where are your sources? Before you suppress the truth and delete this again, where's YOUR citation that Trump didn't condemn white supremacists? J1DW (talk) 00:24, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
I brought this up before and included links to fact checkers of the time including Politifact that prove he was condemning white supremacists, but as you can see they deleted my comments here on the talk page and as flagrantly biased user "Specifico" says "There is little support for your view." i.e. he's a leftist and won't allow facts get in the way of trashing Trump. Even when there are multiple fact checking sources proving them wrong. They'll just delete this once again and go on lying. J1DW (talk) 00:05, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
It appears as though all but one user on this page has expressed support for adding that Trump said White Supremacists should "absolutely be condemned" along with his infamous "many sides comment." The fact that in the same speech he outright condemned white supremacy is a highly relevant piece of context that must be included. If no further dissents to this change are made I will edit the article to include this context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foward123456 (talk • contribs) 19:22, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Why isn't the part mentioned, where a warehouse in Puerto Rico was broken into, and the warehouse was full of unused aid being kept by the Puerto Rican Government ? The blame needs to go more towards the corrupt Puerto Rican Government, and not Trump. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7081:802:7F4B:B497:744E:66D7:AA36 (talk) 22:00, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
This was from the Wikipedia article on the page "Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York and others criticized the federal government and suggested that racism was partially to blame for the insufficient response." Aid was being sent to Puerto Rico by the Trump administration, but it was being kept hidden by the Puerto Rican Government. [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7081:802:7F4B:B497:744E:66D7:AA36 (talk) 22:36, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
References
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Change "Donald Trump, a former president of the United States, has a history of speech and actions that have been viewed by scholars and the public as racist or white supremacist." to "Donald Trump, a former president of the United States, has a history of speech and actions that have been viewed by some scholars and members the public as racist or white supremacist." or something along those lines. I would like this change because, obviously, certain members of the public and scholars do think he's racist, and some don't. The way its currently phrased is very, broad, and even a little vague or misleading. 151.188.25.140 (talk) 15:35, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
He currently appears in the article twice, for a single set of comments that he made... AnonMoos (talk) 23:53, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Just wondering if there should be a post-presidency section for this article?
Trump's recent comments about Mitch McConnell's wife, Elaine Chow, who was born in Taiwan, come to mind.
Trump recently said: "He has a DEATH WISH. Must immediately seek help and advise [sic] from his China loving wife, Coco Chow!"
And there are of course numerous reliable sources discussing the potential anti-Asian racism that is hinted at here. Thanks everyone. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 22:48, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Alot of the "racist" comments quoted in here are taken out of context and are not racist or hateful if you heard or read the whole speech. This needs a serious overhaul 76.73.249.94 (talk) 00:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
Every quote is not in proper context. Even MSM has published these in their entirety. Also, trump only joined politics in 2014 ish. So I'm not sure how they enacted the restriction. Seems pretty underhanded to allow false or partial information about these quotes from much longer speeches to be input and then use that as a reason to yell racism. Journalism is reporting the truth no matter who likes it. There is no journalism here. This is propaganda from the left. 76.73.249.94 (talk) 00:40, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
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Trump didn't say that Mexican immigrants are bringing drugs or are rapists. In that case he was talking about gang members from MS13. That part should be deleted or atleast this fact should be specified. Emreinfelds (talk) 18:53, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”He said "Mexico", not "MS-13". – Muboshgu (talk) 19:09, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
Correct: "commision" to "commission". 79.20.213.132 (talk) 14:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC)