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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 December 2007. The result of the discussion was Delete. The deletion was then contested (1st) but endorsed, again contested (2nd), then the article was restored to user space and userfied, before being later accepted and moved back to the main space by administrator Jerry on 13 February 2008. |
Anyone would be welcome to improve the UN-related section.--CCorward (talk) 16:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
(this short essay by Wikid77 was placed at top, as I think it contains not only compelling arguments for this case, but also some serious thoughts about Wikipedia).--CCorward (talk) 00:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
03-Feb-2008: I'm terribly sorry that you have had such unpleasant experiences trying to document UN officials in Wikipedia, only to have them deleted due to lacking Wikipedia's notion of "notability" in the current neophyte project. As you probably know now, the current infantile Wikipedia has undergone growing pains, trying to sort and cope with the mass of real-world information. The result through 2007 has been a peculiar collection of pet-project information, that has lacked an adult view of the world. At this point, Wikipedia is something of a juvenile delinquent, trying to evade the social norms of adult society; however, it is improving, so please be patient.
Yes, while many senior UN officials are not "notable", there are thousands of bio articles about 25-year-old sports players: there are bios for 676 Chicago Blackhawks and 417+ Edmondton Oilers hockey players. There are even bios for over 200 child stars, who have done nothing but repeat what they were told. However, when it comes to preventing wars or limiting world hunger, almost no one is notable for Wikipedia. The problem is rampant: in computer science, some of the most important subjects are not even mentioned, such as "string grammar" or "comb structure" of languages. For scientific work, Wikipedia had been totally ignorant of major concepts, such as "epistemic feedback" or "first principles" or "inherent bias" (which I had to write). However, some problems have been corrected: the 473 cartoon articles about the known Pokemon characters were combined into just 25 articles.
In short, the problems of Wikipedia aren't just limited to a naive, childish view of the United Nations, but of many other real-world subjects as well. Wikipedia policies on notability need to be improved to better prioritize subjects. Meanwhile, I'm sorry you have been caught in a waste of time writing about the UN; however, adding names to various lists of UN officials might be an easier path to follow, until Wikipedia policies are improved. -Wikid77 (talk) 15:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your message on my talk page. I am of course always ready to talk, that's what talk pages are for. Which edit exactly do you consider "excessive"? Wikipedia has an important policy, Wikipedia:Verifiability, and I always try to implement this policy as strongly as I can. I even think I am not strong and bold enough on this. Please have a look at this WikiEN-l insist on sources by Jimmy Wales. Cheers. --Edcolins 16:33, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a lot Ed. I was referring to your edits to Maurizio Giuliano. I agreed with some, not with others. I hope you can look at the current version and see if it seems ok to you. Clearly there is no point in you and I undoing each other's work. So I hope that as long as you agree what is factual and referenced, you won't remove it. On my side, I did remove things that were not referenced and re-phrased some text, so I do agree with the policy. Also please note that the two books in question are on Amazon.com, but I did not insert a link to them since this would infringe the rules (i.e. as this would be advertising). However as this person has published two books, I think that there needs to be some info on that in the text, and I referenced it to reviews about the books too. Cheers. --CCorward 16:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I found that there was consensus to delete. This AfD has already been contested at DELREV, and the deletion has been endorsed. See the discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 January 7. Thanks, JERRY talk contribs 21:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your message on my talk page. I nominated the article for deletion because I think the person is not sufficiently notable to have an article on Wikipedia, as I explained in the Afd. I have carefully read Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Notability (people), and in my opinion the topic of the article falls short of these guidelines. I am afraid having the alleged record confirmed would not alter my opinion.
Besides, since you don't deny having close relations with Maurizio [Giuliano] [1], you may be in a conflict of interest situation (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest). You should be discouraged to push to have an article about somebody with whom you have close relations. Cheers. --Edcolins (talk) 19:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
30-Jan-2008: Thank you for saving "Maurizio Giuliano" and yes, I have updated your copy to help find sources. A Guiness book would confirm 3 items: birthdate, nationality, and travel record. I honestly believe he is notable, with several critical Africa assignments, and I worried that he was overlooked because he was young, but Vincent van Gogh died in his 30s and even Heath Ledger was only 27. His books + world record would satisfy "notability" for Wikipedia. I think you have done a valuable thing, and I will help in expanding the article more when I get sources, perhaps from Italian websites. Thanks again. -Wikid77 (talk) 13:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
12-Feb-2008: I have contacted the deletion admin User:Jerry to see if he has any other restrictions before restoring:
You have stated a very good point about public UN officials, who are repeatedly mentioned in the media, as not being notable when so many TV child stars are. Rejecting articles about such UN officials seems to be a "double standard" because those UN officials are certainly identified in those media news reports. Beyond the case of Maurizio Giuliano, UN notability needs to be discussed outside this talk page. -Wikid77 (talk) 00:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Here is the scanned image of the entry for MG in the Guinness. thumb|200px|Maurizio Giuliano in the Guinness Book - Click here to enlarge
I tried to upload them but something does not work, also not sure what license I should state since this is for usertalk. Can someone help ? --CCorward (talk) 13:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
What do you mean by: "The book contained short commentaries (blurbs) about its importance, written inter alia by Mexican Secretary of Foreign Affairs Jorge Castañeda, scholar and former US diplomat Wayne Smith, Pulitzer-awarded journalist Andrés Oppenheimer, and Chilean novelist and former diplomat Jorge Edwards."? Which book did contain which commentaries about the importance of what?.. Sorry I find this a bit confusing. Who did say that? (see Wikipedia:Attribution). --Edcolins (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
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