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Was there any reason for a redirect to the talk page of the Association football article?
Anyway, what I really wanted to discuss: school kids in the Netherlands play a game called blokjesvoetbal (lit. 'block football') or flesjesvoetbal (lit. 'bottle football'). It is typically played by three players or more, although more than, say, 7 players is unusual.
The playing field needs to be fairly level: on it, bottles or bricks are placed, or anything not too big that can topple over. The objects are usually placed in a wide circle. Each player gets to guard exactly one brick. Points are scored by shooting the ball against a brick so that it falls flat on the field. The defender has to put the brick back up and the game resumes. As with Three sided football, alliances can be made on the spur.
What I wanted to ask: is this game at all known outside the Netherlands? Is it a form of 'football', or should it be listed elsewhere?
Made some changes to this page. Please be patient concerning the new links I've put in - triskelion and scuffleball and the like. I will provide more information on them soon. - Scooter 07:46, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I don't think it's correct to include Gaelic football or Australian Rules Football under "Warwickshire", unless there is some cource which says that Gaelic took it's inspiration from previous varieties being played in Warwickshire, which I doubt!
Although there is no proof of the link between Gaelic and Australian Rules, the similarities are strong (reflected in the cross over of players and the International Rules matches), and the original influence of Rugby on Aussie Rules has now all but disappeared. So these games should be grouped together. (Grant; March 2, 2004.)
I have now created a separate "family" of Irish and Australian football. Secondly, I don't know if anyone knows which game was the first "football" to have an official set of rules, but Aussie Rules was definitely codified before the FA existed, so I have mentioned it in a new paragraph in the history section. Also, the FA's first set of rules was not "Association football" as we now know it --- in fact there were a lot of similarities to modern Rugby (see the Rugby football article for more on this). I have re-worded the history to reflect this. (Grant; March 3, 2004.)
The Cambridge rules (which formed the basis of the FA rules) were drawn up in Cambridge in 1848. Mintguy (T) 09:59, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)
You are right, although the original Cambridge rules have not survived and they seem to have had as much, if not more, in common with modern Rugby. (Likewise the Sheffield rules (1857) are also often said to have contribued to soccer, although to me they seem to have shared a common ancestor with Aussie Rules, i.e. the ball could be caught by any player (marked) from a clean kick and there was no offside rule at all.) Anyway, I guess the main point is that the Cambridge rules should mentioned as the forerunner of both soccer and Rugby.
I'd also be interested to hear whether rugby (football) really has anything to do with "Warwickshire football", or was really the creation of the Rugby School and other public schools. (Grant; March 7, 2004)
I've merged the History of football article back into this one, it wasn't receiving much attention where it was and the size of the history section in this article seemed to be growing. The History of football article was really only half an article anyway; ending at the Highways act of 1835 banning the game on the public Highway and which led to the development of the game on a pitch sepcially laid out for the purpose. I had written more on later developments but got bored with the subject, I'll have to find my notes. You may notice that the history section has sometihing to say about the possible origin of Aussie Rules. Mintguy (T) 10:52, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Good job, well done Mintguy. For clarity's sake, I've broken up some paragraphs, rearranged some, added a par about Canadian & American football, inserted some bits about rules to show how the Cambridge rules (etc) differed from Association football and made many other small changes. Hope you approve. (Grant; March 9, 2004)
A few points. Firstly the FA is not a league. The FA only organised a league with the formation of the FA Premiership in 1992. It's impossible to say that the game ""not banned" in Ireland resembled Gaelic footbal or anything else, There is no evidence. Gaelic Football itself is an invention of the GAA, You cannot say "Although Gaelic football had been played in Ireland for centuries..." There was no such thing as Gaelic Football, it was an uncoded form of football like everywhere else. The 1848 rules are lost, but there is apparently little difference between them and the ~1856 version in Shrewsbury School's libray. These rules are taken from "The History of the Football Association" (1951) They are as follows -
I've highlighted 8 as this is the reference to the 'mark' (clearly this is the only time the ball can be handled) and also the part about loitering in 9 because this is effectivley an offside rule. Thus these rules clearly favour the kicking gameMintguy (T) 13:56, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Here are the
Do you have the first Aussie rules for comparison? Mintguy (T) 13:56, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Now I'm confused. In looking for these original Aussie rules. I get that - Thomas Wills, William Hammersley, James Thompson, and Thomas Smith came together on May 17, 1859, to draw up a set of rules. What have thse two guys you mention got to do with it? And I still can't find a copy of these original Aussie rules. Mintguy (T) 14:14, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)